Skeptics: Do you want to be alone in the Universe?

It's pretty simple. You can't prove you're right. I can't prove that I'm right.
You believe you are right. I believe I am right.
Seems pretty equal to me.

The OP's argument seems to be a straw man.

I'm not sure there are many skeptics at all here on ATS who truly feel that life on Earth is the only life in the universe. They may say that there is no good evidence of alien visitation of earth, or they may say that even though they think the odds are 99.99% that there may be life elsewhere, we cannot be 100% sure until that life is discovered.

However, I don't think there are many (any?) who are 100% sure that we are alone in the universe.

reply to post by draknoir2

how many of these rage against the skeptic threads will it take to get a dedicated Evil Debunker forum?

Yes "rage against the skeptic threads"

what the go Believers, why all the hate, most skeptics are believers just as you, the only difference is if there will ever be proof to be shown it will come from one of the skeptics,

so more respect and understanding what skeptics are and about would be a nice change in the weather.

I pose the question as a want because I think the skeptics have not provided enough proof to say we are alone in the Universe. At this point it's a want to be right.

I set the example of this thread as a discussion with no links, so feel free to continue in the friendly conversation. I'm looking at all points of life in the universe from extremophiles to intelligent space traveling aliens.

At a later time I will go into more detail with each question with links.

game over man
I pose the question as a want because I think the skeptics have not provided enough proof to say we are alone in the Universe. At this point it's a want to be right.

Again, this seems like a strawman argument.
Please show me where skeptics think we are alone in the universe.

The question of "Is there ET life In the Universe" and "Is there ET visitation of Earth" are two different questions. I think the vast majority of skeptics believe that there probably IS IN FACT other life in the universe, but they also don't think there is enough evidence to believe that those ETs are visiting Earth.

game over man
I pose the question as a want because I think the skeptics have not provided enough proof to say we are alone in the Universe. At this point it's a want to be right.

Huh? Since when was it skeptics' jobs to disprove alien visitation or aliens in general? The believers are making the extraordinary claim, they need to produce the evidence to substantiate the claim. If the evidence isn't good enough, then they need to go back and find some more.

Also, not a SINGLE person in this thread is saying that we are alone in the universe. In fact it's as much of a statistical certainty that there IS other life in the universe as you can get. There ARE people on this thread, however, who are saying that we probably haven't been visited by extraterrestrials on this planet.

It's not a matter of what a person wants. It's a matter of FACTS. What we want is irrelevant.
The math says we are not alone in the multiverse.
The Drake Equation pretty much puts any question to rest - IMHO.

Now personally .. I wouldn't mind living all by myself on a nice planet somewhere.
I'd be fine with that. But that's a discussion for another thread.

I have seen a couple of threads like this in the last few months.

I think what is important to understand is that most skeptics dont believe that we are alone in the universe, in fact, far from it i actively believe that there are other intelligent life forms in the cosmos

What i am skeptical about is everyone on ATS who claims to have seen a UFO or every YouTube video that shows the "Proof".

Do i believe we have possible been visited by ET, I guess its possible it has happened in the course of human history but do I believe its a regular thing.

not a chance.

I don't understand why you would want to shoot down someone's hypothesis or call them stupid, other than wanting to be right.

Also Fyi
Intelligent ET doesn't need to have craft to traverse the stars. There are other methods besides UFO hunting to look for intelligent ET that I will link up later.

I am a rabid skeptic. However, I desperately want to find out there is intelligent life elsewhere. The Earth and all of Humanity needs that proof so we can stop fighting wars and hating each other over religion.

The Earth needs an intervention. Oh and for what it is worth I am gonna have someone write "So Long and thanks for the all the fish" on my tombstone.

game over man
I don't understand why you would want to shoot down someone's hypothesis or call them stupid, other than wanting to be right.

Also Fyi
Intelligent ET doesn't need to have craft to traverse the stars. There are other methods besides UFO hunting to look for intelligent ET that I will link up later.

It is never a good idea to call someone's beliefs "stupid", and it is against the ATS T&Cs to do so, anyway. Having said that, I'm sure there are people on both sides of the argument who have called the other side "stupid". However, most of the good skeptics on ATS do not demean people like that.

As for shooting down people's hypotheses "just because you want to be right", what about THIS hypothesis...:

..."Perhaps the universe is so vast, and Earth is just such a tiny, virtually non-existent, infinitesimal spec in that universe, that it could very well be possible that other intelligent life in the universe does not know we are here."

What would you say about that hypothesis?

bastion

amazing

bastion
No.

Given the estimated number of planets suitable for life it's pretty impossible for there to be no life out there.

However given the estimated number of planets suitable for life it's pretty impossible for an intelligent life to have visited Earth.

See that's where you're wrong. You haven't looked at any data or given any thought to that question. You are a true believer that this isn't possible. You're no better than a young earth creationist who doesn't want to believe in evolution. Not slighting you, just trying to get you to understand.

Why couldn't there be life out there that has evolved hundreds, thousands, millions or billions of years more advanced than us? Is that a possibility? 200 years ago, you would have told me that airliners are impossible and that we could never send a robot to Mars. What will we accomplish centuries millennia or billions of years from now?

Sure that's speculation but so is your post that "...it's pretty impossible for an intelligent life to have visited earth." That's a statement of opinion. Not fact. That's the point.

I've studied the Drake equation and similar for a few years so I have looked at the data and analysed it.

The Universe is both too young for intelligent life to be prevalent (it takes billions of years for gases to cool, planets to form, etc..) and we've not been sending out signals of intelligent life long enough for it to have reached the nearest habitable planets. Scalewise it's like trying to find a grain of sand in our solar system in under a minute.

Give it a few hundred million years and there's a chance we they may visit (if the Earth still exists) but in a few billion years it's far more likely that Boltzmann Brains will be the norm.

edit on 25-3-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)

But don't you see? This is where your blind skepticism is, well...blinding you to the possibilities.

You say that it takes billions of years for gasses to cool, planets to form, etc

Now let's look at the facts.

The Universe is what...13.8 billion years old....
They've discovered a galaxy that they think formed only 500 million years after the big bang...The oldest known star in our galaxy is 13.6 billion years old. There are billions of galaxies in the known universe all of differing ages.

That means that there are very likely ..millions if not billions of solar systems that formed billions of years earlier than our own solar system, meaning that there is a very good high probability that there are life forms in the universe that are billions of years more evolved than we are. That is a possibility that you need to consider based on statistics, probabilities, math and science.

Having an open mind, means keeping that theory as a real possibility. Now take our own telescope technology and see how more far advanced then Hubble we already are in just a few short decades? We'll continue to keep advancing at a pretty good rate for the foreseeable future or forever.

What does this mean? It means that with billions of years of evolution and technological advancements, evolved, intelligent life in the Universe probably has the ability to scan the Universe with much more precision then we can even comprehend. They could also be able to travel great distances between stars with technology that we can't even comprehend yet. They also, if they continue to evolve, probably have a long view of history, meaning that perhaps they send out robotic probes and then thousand if not millions of years later those probes reach their stars and continue to transmit information.

None of this is provable, of course, but when you close your mind to these theories because, we on earth don't have the technology yet therefore and ET could never visit earth. It's...a very close minded way to think. It's Skeptical yes but it's close minded.

Why I wonder, do you think those Alien civilizations need a couple hundred extra million years of evolution to reach us, when they may already be billions of years more evolved than we are? Keep an open mind. Don't be a Skeptic who will not view the evidence, do that math, or think about the possibilities.

You say that the universe is too young for intelligent life to have evolved further than us, like it's a fact. We have evolved. And when you see that some solar systems probably formed hundreds of millions of years if not billions of years before ours did...and that those systems...some of them probably had life...and that life evolved. I mean you can't have it both ways. Science works whether you want to believe it or not.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


You're pretty good at insulting without actually typing out insulting words.

Your last paragraph in bold, you only make that assumption based off our own planet hunting skills.

game over man
I pose the question as a want because I think the skeptics have not provided enough proof to say we are alone in the Universe. At this point it's a want to be right.

I set the example of this thread as a discussion with no links, so feel free to continue in the friendly conversation. I'm looking at all points of life in the universe from extremophiles to intelligent space traveling aliens.

At a later time I will go into more detail with each question with links.

Perhaps you need to look at this from a "skeptics" point of view.

There is no proof to suggest there are other lifeforms in the universe. So why would we believe life is out there if there is no proof? To do so would be along the same lines of religion. It's faith, not facts.

That does not mean we are not open to the possibilities, but most skeptics will not deal in absolutes unless there is evidence to prove it without a doubt.

game over man
I don't understand why you would want to shoot down someone's hypothesis or call them stupid, other than wanting to be right.

Also Fyi
Intelligent ET doesn't need to have craft to traverse the stars. There are other methods besides UFO hunting to look for intelligent ET that I will link up later.

All of which is HIGHLY theoretical. Prove that these transportation methods are possible first, then come to us with evidence of actual extraterrestrials coming to our planet. Again, I'd love to see something substantial to confirm this as true, just you nor anyone else has produced that evidence.

game over man
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

You're pretty good at insulting without actually typing out insulting words.

Your last paragraph in bold, you only make that assumption based off our own planet hunting skills.

I'm not sure how I was "insulting". Perhaps you misunderstood my post.

I was simply pointing out that most people on ATS (both so-called skeptics and so-called believers) do not resort to calling each other "stupid". That is not at all the norm here on ATS, and is against the T&C, and is usually dealt with accordingly. Therefore, it is wrong to imply that skeptics on ATS simply dismiss believers by calling the "stupid". That is not at all true, and most skeptics use proper debate tactics.

You make it sound as if the skeptics have no ammunition except to say "you're stupid", or as if that is the typical way a skeptic rebuts a believer's opinion.


As for my hypothesis, you seem to be (in your words) shooting me down.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Proof to suggest?

What does that mean? See how skeptical you are?

I've been reading the forum lately and noticed other account's year of activation and post count. Comparing that statistic to my account shows I don't post here very much. The believers and skeptics aren't very useful. If memory serves me correct there is a great ATS thread about skeptics vs believers.

Long story short, there are much better places to read about what could be out there in space and how do we look for it.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Stop making things so serious by putting things in quotes and citing the terms and conditions. Did I phrase everything legally to you? Chill out please.

Edit to add: Yes I shot down your hypothesis that small things very far off in the Universe cannot be found.

Again I'll post links later. For the record I am enjoying everyone's comments. Keep them coming!

reply to post by game over man

Proof to suggest?

What does that mean? See how skeptical you are?

I apologize. Perhaps "suggest" was not the proper word to use.

Still, there is no evidence life is out there. Why would I believe life IS out there? I could desire for life to be out there.....but that does not make it so.

In the end, to state other life exists is just as illogical as taking the position that it does not exist.

A true skeptic would be in the middle on this topic......life may exist else where in the universe, it may not. Until evidence is presented, why would I state that I believe in one or the other?

game over man
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

Stop making things so serious by putting things in quotes and citing the terms and conditions. Did I phrase everything legally to you? Chill out please.

I'm just pointing out that you seem to have a low regard for the skeptic on these boards if you think the only way they have to argue a point is by calling a believer "stupid". This is not at all true on ATS.

Most skeptics use sound reasoning to rebut a believer's ideas. Stop making it sound as if skeptics are too closed-minded to see things properly.


As for my thoughts on ETs knowledge of earth...

I, for one, think it is possible that there is a bustling galactic civilization at our doorstep. If that were true, I don't know why they don't come and say "hi"; that would be a mystery.

However, I also think it is possible that intelligent space-faring life is few and far between, and they have not yet come across the evidence that we are here (our radio waves have only traveled an EXTREMELY short distance in the 100 years we have been broadcasting, and even the signs of civilization in our atmosphere have only travel MAYBE a short 3000 light years. Signs of an industrial civilization even a shorter distance -- maybe only 500 light years),


But no matter my opinions on the matter, there is no hard evidence that they know we are here. I can "want" to believe they know, but what I want is not relevant.