The monkey mind (kapicitta)

dominicus

w810i
is a term sometimes used by Buddest to describe the agitated, easily distracted and incessantly moving behavior of ordinary human consciousness. For me personally this means a 24/7 constant narrative of recent events,past events and potential future events. Where in, my mind looks at and dissects every potential outcome (that I can foresee) of numerous situations going on in my life. I write this to ask you this my ATS friends. How does your mind operate? Is it like what I have described? This is something I've been curious about for a long time. It seems the older I get the worse it gets. For the life of me I cannot remember a time when my mind was not in overdrive.

Check out my thread here:
Enlightenment in 15-30 days, an EXTREMELY fast method. Mahasi Style Noting
Link Here

There is a specific meditation noting method that is perfect for people with Monkey mind. In fact that Monkey Mind helps you to take note of everything using the method. A friend of mine with very bad a.d.d. style monkey mind got the beginning stages of enlightenment via this method

Love

I remember reading this thread back when you started it.

reply to post by w810i


Alright, but tomorrow. Sleep calls me and I must answer. You may be pleasantly surprised that there is a technique which will probably work with what you do. I've done the technique three times (it was my main teacher's suggested "meditation" technique), but not in many years, and was just thinking about it a few days ago. It takes three hours, so it's not a time-intensive deal breaker.

reply to post by Aleister


Fair enough

reply to post by w810i


I think that people with ADD have this the most. I have a friend with ADD that seems to have a hard time focusing. I try to tell him to think about one thing at a time, and to think about it deeply.

brazenalderpadrescorpio
reply to post by w810i

 

I think that people with ADD have this the most. I have a friend with ADD that seems to have a hard time focusing. I try to tell him to think about one thing at a time, and to think about it deeply.

It's not an ADD issue. I have no problems focusing on anything.

reply to post by w810i


"Stilling the mind is almost impossible - you do not have to quieten the mind, you can notice the quiet that the mind appears in."
This is the opening line of Catherine Ingram in this video.

This video may help you - when the space the mind appears in is discovered then the thoughts tend to lessen.

w810i
reply to post by gwynnhwyfar

 

The point of the thread was to find out if others dwelt with the same issues that I do. I understand that some people feel that its beneficial to meditate. I cant say that it would or would not help me. After trying numerous types of medititation, i can honestly say its not something i can do. My mind is constantly circulating thru numerous circumstances and objectives. It would appear that this is how my brain is wired.

Our brains are not wired our ability to solve problems relate to neural connections.....

Say for example you wanted to learn to play Microsoft flight simulator only with the keyboard. I mean if its what you really wanted to do it will take time to develop to coordination, that essentially means developing the neural connections to make it possible for you to complete the task.

You see like a Tinkerer and in that sense generating a Mandala could work for you. Mandalas are complex considerations in relation to one perspective.

Like a fractal....



Myself I work with modeling like this all the time.


Another thing about meditation is that the process is similar to falling asleep, but one stays awake. The very first dreams we have when we fall asleep is about day to day activities. So once you have begun the meditative experience it is common to feel the way you do.

Any thoughts?

Kashai

w810i
reply to post by gwynnhwyfar

 

The point of the thread was to find out if others dwelt with the same issues that I do. I understand that some people feel that its beneficial to meditate. I cant say that it would or would not help me. After trying numerous types of medititation, i can honestly say its not something i can do. My mind is constantly circulating thru numerous circumstances and objectives. It would appear that this is how my brain is wired.

Our brains are not wired our ability to solve problems relate to neural connections.....

Say for example you wanted to learn to play Microsoft flight simulator only with the keyboard. I mean if its what you really wanted to do it will take time to develop to coordination, that essentially means developing the neural connections to make it possible for you to complete the task.

You see like a Tinkerer and in that sense generating a Mandala could work for you. Mandalas are complex considerations in relation to one perspective.

Like a fractal....

Myself I work with modeling like this all the time.


Another thing about meditation is that the process is similar to falling asleep, but one stays awake. The very first dreams we have when we fall asleep is about day to day activities. So once you have begun the meditative experience it is common to feel the way you do.

Any thoughts?

I used the term "wired" as a generic statement vs going into an indepth view of neural connections. I'm not certain I understand what you mean by saying a see like a tinkerer?

"Tinkerer: one who experiments with materials and ideas to fully understand their capacities, and who further iterates on their learning to find better solutions to current problems." Is that what you meant?

reply to post by w810i



You will have to excuse me but the "M" on my keyboard has been sticking lately and yes that is what I meant.

reply to post by w810i


I wasn't trying to say that you have ADD, I was trying to give an extreme example of someone who has a hard time thinking deeply about one thing. When I say thinking deeply, I don't mean thinking critically about something.

Of course your symptoms as also those that are associated with a high IQ, they call it high central nervous system (CNS) arousal, which is just a fancied up way of saying that some of us think more (number of thoughts and depth of thoughts) than others. do you see many shaded of grey where other see few? High levels of dopamine stimulate high levels of CSN functioning. Also a tendency towards manic and obsessive thinking comes form high CNS arousal. I have all those issues.

Do you have trouble clearing your mind to sleep? Are you highly creativity, see many choices in most situations, attracted to novel experiences and need things, get bored easily, have trouble finishing tedious and repetitive tasks? Basically, your smart and not all aspects of that are good at times.

Meditation is hard for those with he above traits but still practice improved it. Google Monroe Institute and they sell reasonably priced ($15) guided meditation CDs.

For suggestions to improve meditation and lucid dreaming, see-

www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com...

Enjoy

retsdeeps1
Of course your symptoms as also those that are associated with a high IQ, they call it high central nervous system (CNS) arousal, which is just a fancied up way of saying that some of us think more (number of thoughts and depth of thoughts) than others. do you see many shaded of grey where other see few? High levels of dopamine stimulate high levels of CSN functioning. Also a tendency towards manic and obsessive thinking comes form high CNS arousal. I have all those issues.

Do you have trouble clearing your mind to sleep? Are you highly creativity, see many choices in most situations, attracted to novel experiences and need things, get bored easily, have trouble finishing tedious and repetitive tasks? Basically, your smart and not all aspects of that are good at times.

Meditation is hard for those with he above traits but still practice improved it. Google Monroe Institute and they sell reasonably priced ($15) guided meditation CDs.

edit on 26-3-2014 by retsdeeps1 because: (no reason given)

Interesting, I've not heard of high central nervous system arousal before. With me nothing is black/white. I can generally see several different avenues in any given situation or choice. Yes, I am highly creative. I'm a photographer and writer. I went through a 10 yr period were I sought out anything that was stupid and dangerous that had a high likely hood of getting me seriously injured or killed. Things like skydiving, cliff jumping, bungi jumping, alligator wrestling. I find as I've got older I research random things, usually things most people wouldn't consider thinking about let alone seeking out all the information I can find on it. As far as a clear and quiet moment in my head, I honestly cannot remember the last time I experienced something like that. For me its just a constant stream of things running through my head.

Ok- now you have given other clues, I have some graduate level training in psych though not an expert, just some knowledge. Neurotransmitters have specific behavioral clusters or traits associated with them, some are high or low harm avoidance related to levels of fear and anxiety and low or high brain chemicals that underlie those states and another is high or low novelty seeking. Low harm avoidance means risk takers, like rock climbers, race drivers, etc, with low levels of anxiety and need for risk taking. Related is a craving for stimulation and that is related to low dopamine levels.

Some of these traits can be impacted by diet, as wel las meds if they are causing living problems.

retsdeeps1
Ok- now you have given other clues, I have some graduate level training in psych though not an expert, just some knowledge. Neurotransmitters have specific behavioral clusters or traits associated with them, some are high or low harm avoidance related to levels of fear and anxiety and low or high brain chemicals that underlie those states and another is high or low novelty seeking. Low harm avoidance means risk takers, like rock climbers, race drivers, etc, with low levels of anxiety and need for risk taking. Related is a craving for stimulation and that is related to low dopamine levels.

Some of these traits can be impacted by diet, as wel las meds if they are causing living problems.

Ok, so what is your opinion then?

gwynnhwyfar
reply to post by w810i

 

It sounds like you made the thread in order to feel out how it feels to claim understanding of the problem, and then deny your own responsibility in solving the problem (i.e. I can't.). Well, don't feel like I am picking on you, because neither can I!

You sound JUST like me. I am trying to force myself, but it is not easy. My work is extremely stressful and I wake up every night dreaming of work. I hardly ever have not dreamed of work in the past year. My mind is constantly working on the problem it can't solve - how to get my project to go live, when it has faced ridiculous problems from the time I would up inheriting it. Monkey mind never shuts down, never a peaceful night's sleep, shoulders continually bound up, etc.

I know the solution is to turn inwards and spend time in meditation, but it seems impossible for me. You too? It isn't that I don't know how, but that I seem incapable of unburdening myself from my current sense of my obligations to my job.

So why are YOU yoked to your monkey mind?

Take care,
Gwynn

edit on 24-0320143-1414 by gwynnhwyfar because: Spelling

edit on 24-0320143-1414 by gwynnhwyfar because: (no reason given)

_______________________
Diddo, I run what is now a small company but what once was a mid-sized one. Just spent 4 years in hell downsizing everything, including my income. I do business with government and they are soooo broke, not to mention nasty, anyway the point being stress is a killer and with certain jobs unavoidable. All you both said is true for me, sleep 4 hours (melatonin to get started) then up thinking about work problems.

Interesting is what researchers think sleeping and dreaming does for us. Dreams may function to work out survival lessons from the recently experiences stored in short term memory. Short term memory is like a 24 hour recording of your life in the last day. For the short time we remember most everything then though away 99% and transfer the most important content to long term memory in another brain location. So dreams focus on the recent events that were emotionally powerful- "fight-or-flight response" events. We have an inborn fear of predation (being eaten), and things that scare us, or things we crave (want) are brought into dreams to be pulled-apart and tied into our vast memory association library as that has survival value. So with stressful lives and jobs, we are bring that work content into dream as we are literally trying not to be eaten by it, trying to survive.

So you both can't meditation, nor can I well, as you can't control or turn off that mental apparatus. Bet you both like to watch movies, as do I, as its non-verbal and does offer a little escape form runaway mental processes. Try 10 min mini-meditation just do the breathing- breath in as slow as you can, then out, think of your naval as the top of a balloon and inflate it slowly, hold, then let the air out of the balloon. What I do is take my blood pressure before and after and see my BP and pulse drop by 10% to 15% every time. While breathing think of that favorite place- sitting by a stream, whatever works for you.

Now replace as much sugar in your diet with Stevia (natural not with chemicals added like dextrose or siicone). But the bonus is eOK to eat fat, at least the good fats, all you want, sugar is a toxin causing inflammation which is the root of many western illnesses.The last piece is good exercise- but try 5 mins. a day that makes your muscles quiver, like belly crunches. Research shows this drains the insulin (from too much sugar) out of muscles and really helps balance body chemistry. Of course 2-3 times a week of 45 mins. calorie burning is needed too, and also the yoga type movement of all joints thru full rotations with stretching also.

So that is the best I've found, still doesn't stop the hyper mind (BTW- Buddists don't have all the answers- they are to be admired but Eastern beliefs are not all correct- e.g.- no one has ever been able to measure Chi (Qi) energy. Yes, their belief in non-materiality and letting go is admirable, but shockras, not sure, there is no nerve center at the top of the head to support the crown shockra location- yes there is a big nerve control station in the chest so a shockra there makes sense. But just because Eastern beliefs are very old does not make them all correct. Like Astrology, which is non-sense, as its based on the mistaken belief that the earth is the center of the solar system, so how can the pull of planets account for human behavior when they have it in the wrong location- utter nonsense.

Anyway- those are my survival tactics- (A) relax with deep breathing daily and when keyed-up, (B) exercise both brief intense daily and long period calorie burning with stretching, (C) diet- cut down sugar, and only occasionally pigout-out on ice cream or eat the whole cookie bag, (D) "veg out" watching TV or movies to turn off the brain, (E) Sex- did I mention lots of SEX!!!, (F) melatoin at bedtime- try just 1 mg, (G) focus on outside interests that stimulate you, hobbies, sports, whatever, try to get lost into them at times, (H) did I mention lots of sex?

reply to post by w810i


wow you think of every outcome? sounds stressful

call me crazy but i tend to think dangerously with only considering things that would help out both my and other people that directly influence my life in a positive way.

also i think of other things like music, food to eat, finding a decent spot to rest, that good #

if i were a richer man id be concerned about the forests of earth, for without it humankind would not exist

i never love to think about dill#s in life, because they are #


-edit again, one thing that helps me out with stress, is what i like to call the environmental cleansing of the respiratory release of destruction of the demonic forces, in which is a meditation that eradicates all evil spirits around me, it starts with being faithful, it works with breathing, and it ends in a nice day

reply to post by Onyxzyv


I don't know if its "every possible" outcome. Its the outcomes I can see. If I really and I mean really dig into something I break it down into pro's and con's and build potential scenarios from those lists and see the outcomes and then from those outcomes I build more scenarios and so on. It is mentally and emotionally taxing to have your brain doing this crap 24/7 on pretty much everything going on in your life.

w810i
reply to post by Onyxzyv

 

I don't know if its "every possible" outcome. Its the outcomes I can see. If I really and I mean really dig into something I break it down into pro's and con's and build potential scenarios from those lists and see the outcomes and then from those outcomes I build more scenarios and so on. It is mentally and emotionally taxing to have your brain doing this crap 24/7 on pretty much everything going on in your life.

Reply- that is what high levels of dopamine do, too much thought, sounds like manic thinking. But also you are probably a very smart person, but may burn out physically and mentally. Do you consume much sugar? See this video, think of sugar as a neuro- toxin and addictive like heroin.
keybiotic.com...

retsdeeps1

w810i
reply to post by Onyxzyv

 

I don't know if its "every possible" outcome. Its the outcomes I can see. If I really and I mean really dig into something I break it down into pro's and con's and build potential scenarios from those lists and see the outcomes and then from those outcomes I build more scenarios and so on. It is mentally and emotionally taxing to have your brain doing this crap 24/7 on pretty much everything going on in your life.

Reply- that is what high levels of dopamine do, too much thought, sounds like manic thinking. But also you are probably a very smart person, but may burn out physically and mentally. Do you consume much sugar? See this video, think of sugar as a neuro- toxin and addictive like heroin.
keybiotic.com...

edit on 3-4-2014 by retsdeeps1 because: (no reason given)

Very interesting. I'm always on the go mentally and physically so no burn out. I drink soda on a regular basis which I'm trying to stop. Turns out its harder then I assumed it would be.