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Questions about MKultra Divisions, researchers, and the like.

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posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by spearcarrier
 


I think the big problem is that the concept of MK-ULTRA has been so confabulated at this point that people associate it with general craziness. The NY Times and the Senate Intelligence Committee both host the original Church Committee report on MK-ULTRA and yet, when you do a simple search online for the program, you get some pretty whacky returns. Go to youtube and you'll see dozens of videos crop up claiming this starlet or pop singer is a MK-ULTRA victim and so on. A lot of times, that kind of thing is really subjective and easy to dismiss by the general public. There was a teen that came to ATS who wanted to do a report for school on the subject and what was given to him was exactly that kind of thing. His teacher threw out the report because he had no viable sources that proved the existence of the program. Kind of shocking really when it did happen and the report about it is hosted on sites that would fall under the "viable" criteria of a school. I had to dig and refine my search to get those "viable" links to the kid. I just came too late.

There's a problem when finding those sources that would be considered to be viable by the majority of a population is really difficult. It's kind of the downside of the internet. For example:

On page 9 of a search for MK-ULTRA on google:
www.nytimes.com...

And this one that is directly hosted by the Senate itself, which would be the most viable of all? Wasn't even listed at page 25. I could probably sift through pages and pages without it being listed.
www.intelligence.senate.gov...

That's how MK-ULTRA gets twisted into being viewed as a mere delusion. We do it to ourselves.




posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by Onesmartrat
 


Statistically speaking, dissociative disorder involving all forms of it is one of the most prevalent mental health issues within a given population. 10% of the population has some level of dissociative disorder and it's estimated that it's probably much higher statistically due to undiagnosed cases. Something like depersonalization may not be readily apparent or be perceived as abnormal by the person experiencing it. It's their version of normal. DID has only been in found in 1-3% of the population. Comparatively, that would mean that only 10-30% of those who have been diagnosed with dissociative disorder may also have DID. It's still not every case of dissociative disorder.


NOT ALL DISSOCIATIVE DISORDERS INVOLVE MULTIPLE IDENTITIES....!


Thank you for ultimately agreeing with what I was saying in this remark right here. That was my point. Not all cases of dissociative disorder equate to multiple personalities.

As for the rest of what you are saying, here's the big issue. I'm dissociative. I've never been diagnosed with DID. Yet every time I say something that you do not like, you use your claims of covert programming of alters in an attempt to negate and confabulate what I am actually saying. You also claimed that another individual who made no report of dissociative disorder at all was also simply succumbing to his own internal programming/alters (Lizard). In your mind, anyone who has a differing opinion to yours is simply succumbing to their being programmed. Isn't it possible, especially considering the statistical prevalence of comparatively simple DID, that we are not succumbing to internalized programming or being controlled by alters nefariously created by unknown government entities and instead, simply hold a different opinion?



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by Onesmartrat
 




I had an hour and forty-five minutes missing from my memory there. And when I retreived it using protocals she herself taught me...


Are you able to elaborate on what these protocals are and how you established them?

In terms of defining integration for this discussion, my focus has been on linking the memory with the awareness. Why is it some information can be shared between different alters and some information cannot?

I do understand and can appreciate your position of acceptance to what is, my position is in supporting the rights of self determination. With spearcarrier expressing frustration with their limited memory recollection abilities, I am interested in any tools, options, techniques, process or ways that can strengthen ones memory capability.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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AutumnWitch657
reply to post by spearcarrier
 


Am I supposed to laugh here? I don't know. I kind of feel the way you might walking across someone's grave. Not really sure if it's ok or if I'm disturbing the dead.


Well, once you figure out whose grave let me know. (shrugging)


AutumnWitch657
reply to post by spearcarrier
 


Ah but you could be the viceroy. Mimic the monarch appearance to avoid being eaten . Perfectly illustrates that image is important.


I could. But then again so could anybody else. Although not being overly concerned about appearances, I could also be neither.... so long as the bird doesn't snap at me anytime soon. I have no idea what I'm getting at here. LOL

Your reference to natural fears got me curious so I looked them up. I didn't find the fears you were talking about, but I did find these:

Extinction - fear of annihilation, of ceasing to exist. This is a more fundamental way to express it than just calling it the "fear of death". The idea of no longer being arouses a primary existential anxiety in all normal humans. Consider that panicky feeling you get when you look over the edge of a high building.

Mutilation - fear of losing any part of our precious bodily structure; the thought of having our body's boundaries invaded, or of losing the integrity of any organ, body part, or natural function. For example, anxiety about animals, such as bugs, spiders, snakes, and other creepy things arises from fear of mutilation.

Loss of Autonomy - fear of being immobilized, paralyzed, restricted, enveloped, overwhelmed, entrapped, imprisoned, smothered, or controlled by circumstances. In a physical form, it's sometimes known as claustrophobia, but it also extends to social interactions and relationships.

Separation - fear of abandonment, rejection, and loss of connectedness - of becoming a non-person - not wanted, respected, or valued by anyone else. The "silent treatment," when imposed by a group, can have a devastating psychological effect on the targeted person.

Ego-death - fear of humiliation, shame, or any other mechanism of profound self-disapproval that threatens the loss of integrity of the Self; fear of the shattering or disintegration of one's constructed sense of lovability, capability, and worthiness.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 06:02 PM
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WhiteAlice
reply to post by spearcarrier
 


I think the big problem is that the concept of MK-ULTRA has been so confabulated at this point that people associate it with general craziness.


Well that keeps it kind of half-hidden now doesn't it? It's like the first people to come forward after sighting UFOs in the 50's. They were crazy. End of story as far as the world was concerned.


The NY Times and the Senate Intelligence Committee both host the original Church Committee report on MK-ULTRA and yet, when you do a simple search online for the program, you get some pretty whacky returns. Go to youtube and you'll see dozens of videos crop up claiming this starlet or pop singer is a MK-ULTRA victim and so on.


Yes, those actually kind of make me mad. Maybe all of the pop stars are butterflies. They certainly are clones. And yet, what about the rest? So that when looking at things I think the "Hollywood section" isn't MKultra so much as has a different name. Or maybe it's just the outer symptom of our hidden slave culture. After all, to be an effective master you have to learn how to be a handler. And your beastie must be trained.



There's a problem when finding those sources that would be considered to be viable by the majority of a population is really difficult. It's kind of the downside of the internet.


It's a shame but it's true.

What I originally was trying to find was the report on how Generation 1 not only sued the government over the matter but won. But I ran out of time and grabbed what I could.
edit on 26-3-2014 by spearcarrier because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 06:07 PM
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Just for reference on page 1 it was stated that as Einstein said: the commonly used definition of insanity (if insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result) should be attributed, to AA somewhere between 1935 and 1951. It was certainly used by Einstein in 1951 and NA in 1953(founded in 1953 by Jimmy Kinnon and others)
The Rita Mae Brown reference as attributed to Jane Fulton circa 1983 is much too new to be the original.
Einstein did write and reference the phrase in his “Letters to Solovine.” (1951) Being well read and interested in such human experiences, again leads me to believe that he got it from the AA publishing’s and others, Dr Silkworth etc, of that time-frame going back to 1935 and also perhaps in letters from Karl Jung to Bill Wilson.
The AA reference is from the description of the insanity of drinking again after terrible consequences, over and over. This is described in detail in Alcoholics Anonymous in the chapter “more about alcoholism” aka the Big Book, using a character who has a problem jay-walking and keeps getting hit by cars and buses but does not make the correlation of his actions and subsequent consequences. It is also an explanation of that first subliminal thought, as described in the passage about Jim, the used car salesman, the classic ‘slip’.
It is exactly the type of action that occurs in AA as described in the Comment by phoenix — December 27, 2008
“Not Einstein. Or Franklin, for that matter.
Both men would have probably understood that there are different forms of “insanity” and to reduce a massive psychological concept down to a single blurb is just idiotic.”
Those in AA trying to explain a complex thought and lesson to a shaky newcomer would in fact distill this concept down to a few words that could be understood and remembered and yes, repeated over and over again. This is a specific form of insanity that they are looking to be restored from.
Further support of this premise are the writings of the two founders of NA who left AA over the 3rd tradition who quote this definition in the second step of their basic text.
Because of the anonymity of the organization of AA and the tendency to repeat great turns of phrasing over and over so they loose their original author but not their impact,
empoweredquotes.com...

www.scribd.com...

edit on 26-3-2014 by Fingle because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 06:38 PM
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kwakakev With spearcarrier expressing frustration with their limited memory recollection abilities, I am interested in any tools, options, techniques, process or ways that can strengthen ones memory capability.



I was just reading that some may have access to the "memory bank" in full, other identities may only have partial access, and some none at all. I'd gotten the impression from Springmeier's book that memory is separated into two forms: personal and technical.

The personal data would be such things as name, rank, identity, favorite color, and things that are, well, personal.

The technical data would be things like how to drive a car, foreign languages, parts of a hyper intergalactic drive, and how to make green from blue and yellow.

You can't access another id's personal data. But the technical kind of ends up in this knowledge ocean any id can learn to pull from.

But... although Springmeier did a lot of ground-breaking reasearch and has a lot of truth in his books they're also slanted and this brings some of the other information askew. But in my case at least I've found that I can access the ocean, if triggered properly. But not the personal, which would be like a golden snitch to me. Or... something.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by kwakakev
 


Once I open up the quote page to respond I don't get to actually see the qoute itself and I have no second window option here ...so I am going to apologize ahead of time for perhaps not answering all at once. I am still working on the 'inside' how to respond to the remaining issue of your last post asking about emotion. The other problem with this format is difficulty in typing on suchva small keyboard!

I will address the question about why some alters have access to memories and why others don't....although I think I may have touched upon it in a previous post a little. Some alters appear to have been 'prepped' to tell their 'story'....while others are terrorized and threatened with death if they do.

Trying to explain this is not easy. And it requires my awareness into certain areas of focus that can be difficult at times and not so difficult other times....that's the nature of working with Monarch Multiplicity. I have alters that know more than 'I' do.....but getting 'them' to come out to play....well....on a good day ....yes! And I am talking to a bunch of Multiples....oh, I know....they get pissed when I say that....pushes all the right buttons....calls up the nasties....the gatekeepers...etc...but it seems silly to me to come onto an online message board on MIND CONTROL and trust me....this isn't the first board most of these peeps are posting on...that is all about MIND CONTROL ....but then denying that you were REALLY mind controlled....as if they would not have used the best option they ...the mind controllers had ...but would use whatever that might not produce the best 'product' possible.

I have to think about how to respond in a way that doesn't make 'em all jump out of their skin and come at me with verbal hatchets again...well...I don't mind the hatchets so much...but I don't want peeps becoming so unstable they start beating their kids or cutting themselves....etc...etc.

And yes....even though they say they are not reading my posts...and they think its all bs...and I am delusional...yes they still read my posts...their DARKSIDE ALTERS won't let them get away with not reading them...lol.

So...well....maybe that's a good place to start...with the Darkside Alters.....hmmmmm...okay.

The alter system should be thought of as....well....first a chess cube comes to mind but no....how about a rubix cube? Chess cubes are a part of Internal World Reality Sets....so I want to stay away from that right now....too many triggers....rubix cubes were popular when I was a kid....they are based on cipher codes I think in a strange way...like cabalistic cypher codes....only with colors instead of Hebrew Letters...right? You know alter systems are layered in....layered in and also they are fractioned off from each other....kind of like if the child,strapped to a guerney is being hooked up to an EEG....right? Okay in my era that would have entailed an electronic signal line running across a black faced device....like a sine wave that continually fluxuates according to whatever brainwave state....right? These would have been recorded too...on paper somewhere.They get a baseline with the child in waking consciousness and go from there....all very 'scientific'....done in a major hospital in San Franscisco.....underneath it actually ....all very MKULTRA - ish of course....but in reality it was not experimental because they had me from infancy....the 'contractors' you know....and they would 'contract' me out ....to various agencies....for lots of money of course...and why not have the tax payers pay for the rape and toture of their own children? I mean how hilariously sinister is that???
I could tell you who the contractors were....but I would be banned immediately...lol. And I 'm not quite ready to go....just yet.That's what MKULTRA was about...really....getting all that tax payer money to pay for the rape and torture and enslavement of tax payer kids.

Nice country we live in, huh?

So....child strapped down.....electroshock provided....brainwave shift measured.....'signature' taken of state response provoked.....well by this age....hmmmm how old was I anyway?.....Have to think.....seven.....six......yes....'round there I imagine....anyway already full fledged Monarch Multiple!

So ....here's the deal.....I'm laying there facing the ceiling....strapped down on guerney....doctors with surgical masks on to hid their cowardly faces of course....and I start seeing the EEG graph inside my head!!!! Whoa....that's weird huh? I mean....I am not seeing it like a remembered image....I am seeing it in real time! I am thinking wow....well....tell you the truth I don't know a lot of what I was thinking....because of the porposing beteen brain wave states....up and down up and down you know.....different alters you see....have completely different brainwave signatures....right? Now think rubix cube....okay? Imagine the goal isn't to match every side the same color.....but that when you are moving all those little boxes around you are getting combinations of color on each side....right? Gee...I hope you are not so young you don't know what I am talking about...! Do there still have rubix cubes? I don't even know ifvIvam spelling the name right....rubics....rubix....see.....right there......same word but different spelling. Just like the brainwave signatures....same brain....but different brain interms of brainwave signature matching different levels of alters....get it?.......This is a metaphoric analogue I am describing to you ...ie rubics....rubix ......cube. You ask me certain questions about protocals. First....protocal.....ready?


1 Establish rapport within. You must make peace with your internal world.....you must establish a rapport within yourself like you are a diplomat working with a foreign nation. This sounds crazy right?....Trust me....it works....but can take time....and you have to ask nicely.....yes....you have to have respect for yourselves....your selves.......I know i know....its all an illusion created in the mind of a child under tremendous life threating circumstances.....yes.....but that is rational logicical thinking and when working within you enter the land of make believe......a domain set in place to ensure your survival at all costs....at ALL costs....even the loss of your freedom and autonomy. Now....you must play the game of profound pretending CONSCIOUSLY.....and then CO-Consciously.....but it will either happen slowly or all at once. This is how you begin to do what you asked about connecting memories to awareness. You have to ask them for permission.....for their cooperation....what you are essentially asking for is SOMEONE ELSE 'S memory and that someone else may have been threatened with death....or may be protecting the child....which is you....from death......and some of these alters took the pain so you would not have to....so thank them ....and let them know you are safe now....well....safer lets say.....don't lie to them....be honest. Then....there is another protocal you can use with this one.....and more after that.....I will give you the next protocal....but not right this minute. Relax....have some wine....maybe a little pot.....take it in.....they already know what you want inside ....invite them to dinner.

Sorry....got to go right now....no time to correct typos...mispells...incomplete thoughts....try what I
edit on 26-3-2014 by Onesmartrat because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by spearcarrier
 


The lawsuits are sometimes harder to peg down because they definitely get lost in the din. First one that comes to mind is US v. Stanley. That one was different from the Stanley suits because it was originally dismissed as Stanley was within the military. He eventually won his case:

articles.baltimoresun.com...

Cameron's patients, I believe, were settled out of court years ago.



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by Onesmartrat
 

PS Krakakev....and whatever you do when creating rapport within....don't dare mention the 'I' word ...okay....don't even think it!.....okay?



posted on Mar, 26 2014 @ 08:14 PM
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WhiteAlice
reply to post by spearcarrier
 


The lawsuits are sometimes harder to peg down because they definitely get lost in the din. First one that comes to mind is US v. Stanley. That one was different from the Stanley suits because it was originally dismissed as Stanley was within the military. He eventually won his case:

articles.baltimoresun.com...

Cameron's patients, I believe, were settled out of court years ago.


Holy cow with a settlement like that I think we should all sue. ;-)

But awesome that he won finally. More people need to win out over this. More of these sorts of things need to be brought to light without being trolled and filled with dis-information.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by Fingle
 

Yes....fingle...I am familiar with some of this history...but didn't some of this stuff...these qouted sayings derive from the 'Oxford Group' which is something of a hidden hand behind the founding of AA.? Do you know anything about their origins or their membership....religious...theological orientation....etc.?


Pro Libertate!

-OSR

edit on 27-3-2014 by Onesmartrat because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 01:18 AM
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Hey whats the flag thing for anyway...I hit it a couple of times and nothing opens up....it just keeps a tally of how many times you hit it? This site has an odd format...compared to other sites...or perhaps its how it appears on cell???

Perhaps a 'friendly' could respond eh? Someone with a username I am not skipping posts of...like someone friendly and helpful, yeah?

Thanks.

Pro Libertate!

-OSR
edit on 27-3-2014 by Onesmartrat because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by Onesmartrat
 


Thanks for taking the effort to provide some insight, I know interacting through a mobile is a bit limited. The flag thing is used to indicate threads that you think are interesting or important. I am not getting any tally when repeatedly hitting the flag, it just switches on once the first time you hit it, then does nothing after that. Overall it helps find the the threads that have a greater public appeal.

With the rubics cube bit, I am 40 and use to play with them. Had to pull them apart rather than twist them around to solve it.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by WhiteAlice
 


Sorry...thought I was reading someone else's post quoting me....lol.Then I thought it was someone quoting me and you....lol....and then I realize its you....jokes on me.
So...since I read the darn thing....I will respond to it.

One...I don't care what you think about what I think about you. I did not even have the slightest thought about you before I stumbled in here....not one iota of a thought about you. But the first post I read on the last page...where I entered ...I was reading your post basically DESCRIBING YOUR EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH ME......and I knew it was me right off the bat and then I remembered you.

Funny...how after all these years...you are still thinking about me. And then I show up......that's really funny if you think about it.

But then I remembered YOU.

But badmouth you I did not....what's the point.....?
But I worked with you....by your own admission...(on the page I began posting on) before I got here....and I recall working with you....so if I think you are a Monarch Multiple...I have a lot more reason to than what you have written on this thread...but since I am an ethical person....I have not said WHY I think you are a Monarch Multiple...and will not. But stop telling me what I can say or can't...okay. You sure had no problem telling people about your experience and OPINION about what you think about ME...but you don't like it when the same thing happens to you, huh?

Control issues.

Sorry....I am not your kid....to tell me what I can say or not. Who cares anyway..? Me saying you are a Monarch Multiple doesn't make you one....does it?

Or does it?

Oh....and once again...you misinterpretted or misrepresented what I said to this 'Lizard' character after he came online and out and out attacked me and then used programming language...language he's used before on me on another site.....that's right I recognized him too....and that avatar.....jees....you'd think with all this talk about personal experiences with mind control and handlers and all that someone in here might have noticed his avatar has his face cut off just below the eyeline....every legit mind control survivor knows what that means and would most certainly be entrained by it...especially when he's posting programming cues....!
I don't know how many have told me....along with my own personal experience ....that they don't recall the eyes of the handler because they were punnished if they looked into their eyes without being told to first. They draw pictures of handlers without eyes...and without hands.Its classic Monarch style MC. And I said he was a handler...or made reference to it....I did say some handlers are Monarchs and some are not....but with him I suspected not...but may have joked about it tongue and cheek.

Anyhow...just clearing that up.

I have no doubt you will have it your way here....one way or the other. I won't be here forever....I don't spend my life online. But while I am here I WILL say what I think....and you can type your fingers to the bone if want disputing my opinion or opinions....but that's your trip ...not mine. I have no time to continue to engage in this endless bickering....and will no more respond to your posts. You want to spend all your time going on about how terrible or delusional I am....or whatever else about me you want to say....and I will not respond. I will let other people decide on their own about you...about me.

I believe in free speech.

Do you????



Pro Libertate!

-OSR
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posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 02:41 AM
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reply to post by kwakakev
 


Yeah....okay thanks on the flag thing. Sorry if post was a little scattered...I was and am tired....and took some benadryl earlier for allergies. The alters that switch up to give information and shift writing style can often be challenging for me....hard to explain if you have not had experience. I like nice neat sentences...but some of them don't...and the right brain doesn't either so instead of playing tug of war on tiny keyboard with floating screen ...sometimes I just go with the flow.

I will finish thoughts on certain subjects you asked about and be more cohesive answering your remaining questions tomorrow.

Thanks for understanding.

Pro Libertate!

-OSR

ps funny what you said about rubics cube....I think I took one apart too one time....but don't recall if I ever put it back together.

edit on 27-3-2014 by Onesmartrat because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 05:36 AM
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Doing some morning research before work and I found this in an India newspaper:

www.gizmodo.in...

"One other such "interesting" program, was from 1953 to 1964, when the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) conducted dozens of experiments on the effects of biological and chemical agents on American citizens without their knowledge in Project MKUltra. These covert tests included subjecting the unwitting subjects to hallucinogenic drugs and other chemicals, among other things."

Nice article, very factual. Not the first time a newspaper outside of America took something seriously. But then again, for those that doubt we're not under a propaganda regime, even TIME will have a different cover image outside the U.S. on occasion. We get something kitten like and very different.

Thanks to it I also know about "The American Government Once Intentionally Poisoned Certain Alcohol Supplies, Resulting in the Death of Over 10,000 American Citizens"

Found it by putting "Rubik's cube" and "mkultra" down as search terms.

I'm also starting to pick up that MILAB and MKultra are considered two different branches that just happen to use the same techniques?



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by WhiteAlice
 


I remember the running and the hiding and am all to familiar with that face of rage. It continued into my teen years when I of course became a whore ( I came home late one night hence I'm a whore)
At 16 she threw me into a door jamb nearly breaking my collar bone. It created a rage within me that I'd never felt before.
I stood up and punched / pushed her in the chest causing her to fall back against the wall and said " that is the last time you lay a hand on me"'
It was. Our relationship changed after that and she actually tried to act like we were friends. I still moved out as soon as I had a job.
She is dead now. She was always sick as far back as I can remember she had one physical ailment after another. She cherished her illnesses as it got her attention and pity.
After I hit her she acted like a wounded animal. Why did you do that to me kind of stuff.
This thread is becoming somewhat cathartic for me.

Can you say or do you remember what the security breach was or was that just paranoia on your grandfather's part. Was there military sanctions against him?
Do you still live in Alaska?



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by WhiteAlice
 


Ok so no brainwave entrainment for you. Pity because I think there is value there.
I do know that senses can trigger memories. My sense of smell is strongly connected to past memories. I am lucky in that I don't suffer memory losses. Sometime I wish I could forget some things.
My mother didn't bother to worry about the welts she left. I was in elementary school in the sixties and CPS didn't exist or if it did no one thought that hitting a kid with a belt buckle was any big deal. I did have one teacher ask me about the marks and I told her flat out my mother did it. If CPS existed then I would have called them myself. My sense I self preservation was strong then and still is. No one thought anything about beating kids back then. That was the generation that brought me up. Hit first ask questions or don't later. The burning happened during a break in school because no one ever asked me about the blisters on my hands. She held my hands down on a hot stove burner. She thought nothing of backhanding me with the hand her wedding rings were on and splitting my lip. Can't tell you how often that happened. This treatment didn't cause any dissociative symptoms in me it pissed me off. I am still defiant.



posted on Mar, 27 2014 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by Onesmartrat
 


Well maybe entertainment was the wrong word. I am extremely interested in the outcome. Having been abused myself I don't think there is anything funny about that.
I certainly do not derive pleasure from reading about this. Perhaps morbid curiosity is a better term. I've always leaned toward the macabre when it comes to what subjects interest me. Stephen King, Michael Crichton, and James Patterson are my favorite authors. Hardly mother goose material. Read into that what you will. I really don't think you have any kind of keen insight into the human psyche. You seem almost predatory to me and I find myself sorry to now be in your cross hairs.
Au avior Mon cher un brillant mouchard.




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