Questions about MKultra Divisions, researchers, and the like.

So I found some time to return to ATS after another work induced hiatus. I'm bopping around, and ultimately I came to this little corner because, well, y'all have cookies. And I'm reading some really good threads, cuz you know you can learn a lot when you keep your mouth shut. But the discussions have brought me back to a question I've had that has another question that has another question...

First off, as someone who has always remembered a couple of her childhood training experiences, it drives me absolutely batty when I try to get in touch with a MKultra researcher and they want to "deprogram" me. Why must we always be deprogrammed? **Why** can't it be enough to just work with us to get our memories back and let us take it slow, to decide what we're going to do once we figure out what we've done? Because when I decline deprogramming in favor of NOT having Jesus, love, light, sparkles, and My Little Pony shoved down my throat I'm suddenly a Bad Person (tm). Well, shoot, when we decline to do a mission in favor of NOT having needles, etc shoved down our throats we're suddenly Bad Puppies (tm). So from my pov, the two behaviors aren't that different and it makes me nervous and distrustful. It's my mind. All I want is to remember and recall what's actually stored in it. I always figure, get past step one and we'll worry about step two later.

1. So yes. Why can't a MKultra number ask for help without being forced other help they don't feel ready for yet?

Also, why is it that a lot of researchers avoid the MKultra aspect as if it were the Black Plague? I do get that the topic has been dangerous to a lot of people, don't get me wrong. But so have all the other topics people smother to death. I often feel like this aspect of what's wrong with our world at large is the unseen stepchild. It was covered a little, hooray! Somebody sued the government and won. Alright. Let's talk about the shape of beamships some more.... I've been looking for someone willing and strong enough to help me with recovering who I am for over ten years. I haven't found *anyone*. The big names are either dying out or - as one told me - "not experienced enough" to handle my situation. Small names? I can't find anyone that's a small name willing to try. Except one guy, several hours from me, and yeah. I'm broke. I ain't got no money, honey. Sorry.

Oh and there was the other lady who accused me of attacking her with squirrels. But that's another story. (rolls eyes) Needless to say I'm at this level of isolated despair where I give up. No one is ever going to help me. I'm going to die not knowing who I really am.

2. Why are people so afraid to research and handle the topic?

Also, people say MKultra is over and done or acknowledged it's "officially" over so that I gotta wonder... is it over and we should be referring to other program names when we mention what's happening to us now? For example, when my husband was deployed a couple of years ago I was gotten out of my bed by two men in uniform - because, see, it was time for me to go to "work". They were NOT happy that I'd woke up aware. "Aware" is the term they used at me, too. Stupid tazer using suckers. Anyway, was THAT part of MKultra or... something else?

3. Where do the lines of one and the lines of another begin?

Silly questions I know, but these silly questions help me to understand the universe.

The men in the white coats will be along shortly. I suggest you go along quietly. They can help you with your delusions.

reply to post by AutumnWitch657


You always say something like that. =^-^= So thoughtful. ;-)

spearcarrier
1. So yes. Why can't a MKultra number ask for help without being forced other help they don't feel ready for yet?

It always amazes me that so many people post on ATS asking for help, whether in relationships or this "secret agent" schtick, and then reject what anyone says. Nobody else is really obligated to help at all. And ATS is a rather unlikely place to secure help. About all conspiracy theorists can do is agree with your conspiracy theories. There isn't any expertise to speak of here. You've got too many conditions for the help you want to receive. You want to dictate exactly what kind of help you want.

Also, why is it that a lot of researchers avoid the MKultra aspect as if it were the Black Plague? 2. Why are people so afraid to research and handle the topic?

I don't see that as a true statement. There are hundreds of books on the subject, documentaries, articles, etc. There's no lack of information on the topic and it has been "pursued" by dozens of researchers. But beyond that, people have to be convinced that it is a topic worth pursuing. If you are not persuasive enough to elicit interest, it's not their fault. It basically means you haven't proven your case.

3. Where do the lines of one and the lines of another begin?

Where does the line of reality end and the line of fantasy begin? Here we are being asked to believe that the spouse of a service member has been recruited at a young age to be a secret agent (?) for MKUltra. So first we have to get through the very real question of the veracity of your story. And you apparently want help, but it's got to be free because you have no money, plus it's got to be the precise help you want. So there really is little upside for anyone else to get involved here. If someone else decided to interview you and wrote about it you'd just say you were exploited, so there's nothing going that way. You're kind of like the client from hell. No thanks.

About the only option I see is for you to write up your story yourself, from beginning to end. Sell it, stick it on scribd, or otherwise distribute it. But don't expect anyone else to help you pro bono.

You've been over this material several times here with at least two extensive threads on it. In other words, you've kind of beat it to death already. Einstein said that the definition if insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Surely you don't expect a different result this time. Just go over your old threads.

reply to post by spearcarrier


What makes you so certain that you were, in fact, a victim of MK-ULTRA? While I applaud your disdain of purported "deprogrammers", of whom I suspect many are at least mildly off their rockers, I question the logic of assuming that you were a victim of MK-ULTRA. My childhood was completely whacked. I got hit with what appears to be a freaking brainwashing tape when I turned 18 of which I found direct and physical evidence of. My grandpa, as a serious career military man, taught me all sorts of things as a kid. I don't look at the totality of it all and think "I was a victim of MK-ULTRA". Instead, I see it, because of my recollections, as just having the misfortune of being the favored grandchild of a power nutty psychopath or maybe just a guy trying to pass on his trade to one of his descendents and didn't like the way that I turned out. Jury is out on that. In that sense, it'd be kind of like a plumber or an electrician teaching their trade to their kid but with a military bent in my case. Men do that.

Why are you taking the leap to being a victim of MK-ULTRA? I'm not going to state that all MK-ULTRA research dropped off the earth when the program was closed down. Instead, my opinion is that researchers probably recast much of what they'd been doing in an effort to make some of it beneficial like the amnesia pill for PTSD. However, I have a few questions for you.

You're stating that if you deny a mission, you get needles shoved at you. However, you feel at liberty enough, even with the state of online surveillance being known, to post the above post without risk of fall out or endangerment of your person? Does that make sense to you? Part of the hype behind MK-ULTRA was that it was to make a Manchurian Candidate--an agent who didn't know they were an agent. Yet, here you are, clearly stating that you believe yourself to be an agent, face needles at rejecting a mission, and more. How does that jibe with the concept of an agent who doesn't know they are an agent? If they know you're aware, why haven't you been thrown from the freedom train and why would they consider you to be a still usable asset?

As far as help goes, last I checked, there is the possibility of free mental health if you visit your county mental health clinic. There usually are ways to help with the costs and they will know them. I'd heavily steer clear of those who claim to be deprogrammers though because of the risks. The last thing you want is somebody who is biased towards a specific claim.

HI there. Thanks for replying.

"It always amazes me that so many people post on ATS asking for help, whether in relationships or this "secret agent" schtick, and then reject what anyone says"

Look, I associate with experiences and I give examples as I go. It's how I am, it's how my family is, it also seems to be how a lot of my tribe is. It's traditionally called being a storyteller. I didn't go into exhausting detail this time because I knew I'd talked about it before and only needed the examples out, not the whole story. I also see people doing it all the time here to the point of even hijacking another person's thread with their tale of woe, so I know I'm not particularly unique. Just someone trying to get you to understand where they're coming from.

It's how I communicate and connect things with the world. There are a lot of people who have no trouble at all getting my meaning when I speak to them. Nowhere in this post have I actually said "Please someone help me." When I ask for help, I'm direct with it, I contact people in private, and I ask for help. Which I didn't here. This is probably the LAST place I'd ask for help from anybody.... I can't and won't change who I am just to please you. I don't expect you to understand me, but it would be courteous to at least try to follow if you intend to respond to my post. I mean I make the effort for you when I read what you write.... Or at least don't put words in my mouth, okay?

"You've got too many conditions for the help you want to receive. You want to dictate exactly what kind of help you want. "

That's actually the point of my first question. It seems the ones with the conditions are the helpers. Back when I used to seek help actively I was told, point blank by one, that if I wasn't willing to receive Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior then he wasn't going to bother. That's not me putting out a condition. That's HIS condition put out by HIM. And it's just one example of many. And it seems to be the norm. I've read articles by some that the only way to deprogram a number is to get them to switch to Christianity. Which means, I guess, no one in India has a snowball's chance in h***? Or how about Tibet?

I have two friends who were told basically the same thing by "helpers" (not for MKultra, though). One was told to reject the cabal and told her I was the cabal. (And later brought up squirrels. Beware the squirrels.) The other was told she had to allow him to touch her in what she felt was inappropriate ways. These aren't our conditions. It's theirs.

The times I asked for help, I only wanted help with one thing and one thing only: memory recovery. It's not a condition. It's not even a term of being. I'm just not and probably will never be interested in more, especially with the conditions thrown at me over the matter. I view it as the same as someone going to get a past life recovery. It's memory recovery to them. Same concept. So why Jesus has to be thrown into it kind of baffles me. And I want to know why.

So, I ask again: Why can't a MKultra number ask for help without being forced other help they don't feel ready for yet? Maybe they aren't asking for help in finding God or deprogramming. Maybe they only turned to the MKultra specialist because they were told they had to go to someone properly qualified when they contacted that nice lady who specialized in past life recovery. Maybe they just want a splinter pulled from their toe. If there are researchers out there willing to just dig for info and only for info, I haven't heard of them. I doubt I'd contact them being as I can't afford to pay them, but it sure would be nice to know they exist.

"I don't see that as a true statement. There are hundreds of books on the subject, documentaries, articles, etc. There's no lack of information on the topic and it has been "pursued" by dozens of researchers. "

Okay, fair enough. Yes there are a lot of things and I've a few of read them. But they always seem to stop short and cover the same basics over and over again. I'm tired of hearing about Project Paperclip, I wanna hear something from the 90's. Or 80's - since people say MKultra didn't truly end in the 70's and all. (They're all so convinced but I haven't read anything to back it up.) If there are such things, I invite folks to please list them. Cuz I'm not unique, which means other folks are going "buh" at the seeming lack of information.

"Where does the line of reality end and the line of fantasy begin? Here we are being asked to believe that the spouse of a service member has been recruited at a young age to be a secret agent (?) for MKUltra. "

No, here you are being asked where the line of one older project that got shut down in the 70's ends and the lines of what seems to be happening now begins. You are being asked for technical information. Period.

"So first we have to get through the very real question of the veracity of your story."

No you don't, because whether or not my story is real has nothing to do with the lines of one black program to the edge of another. Query: is there documentation of these different programs? Are they all under the same umbrella? Do we blame little green men?

Quite frankly I don't care if you believe me or don't believe me. I only say "MKultra" because a researcher told me so after hearing my story. They said they couldn't help me, but that information was the most help I've ever gotten and I'm thankful. So, that's right - my story was validated and given a label by someone in the know. I thought it was alien activity my whole life. Surprise. What she told me opened up my information track to a whole, scary new world that left me with questions where I once thought I had the answers to everything. Maybe you don't know what it's like to have your world ripped apart like that. Good for you. Whether you believe me or not doesn't matter, because in the end you're not anyone important to my well being.

See I'm not sitting here asking about my sanity to a forum that currently seems to hold a very mean level of hostility. I was sitting here expecting an intelligent response in regard to how the world works. No more, no less.

" Part of the hype behind MK-ULTRA was that it was to make a Manchurian Candidate--an agent who didn't know they were an agent. "

Ah, cool. Okay, so... then if someone is not a Manchurian but were handled under similar terms they're not MKultra? Is there anything else to learn about here?

reply to post by WhiteAlice


"My childhood was completely whacked. I got hit with what appears to be a freaking brainwashing tape when I turned 18 of which I found direct and physical evidence of. "

Man that's messed up and I'm sorry to hear it.

"Why are you taking the leap to being a victim of MK-ULTRA?"

I already told you in my last post. See? Storytelling wins and the crowd goes wild! :-)

"You're stating that if you deny a mission, you get needles shoved at you. However, you feel at liberty enough, even with the state of online surveillance being known, to post the above post without risk of fall out or endangerment of your person? Does that make sense to you?"

Actually, the needles were an example to contrast the first example of that sentence. Which would be why I used the pronoun "we" and a conjuctional word. Tit for that, yin for yang, two sides to every coin type of thing. I personally have no memory of needles. Being buried in the sand, yes. Blood on the beach, yes. Other gruesome things? Yes. No needles.

And stating things public, online? Yeah. You know I've approached things over and over again this way. What will ultimately happen is things will explode, my bank will be mysteriously wiped or something and I'll be knocked offline again for a while. And you guys may not note my disappearance until I can get my schedule up again to come crawling back, and then people go "Oh well here she is again." Meanwhile on my end, I'm having to start ALL OVER on what I was up to. Which means sometimes I have to reiterate part of a story because I don't remember what I may or may not have mentioned before. It actually gets tiresome, having to start over again and again. And a little bit boring.

I haven't been threatened since I was in my early 20's. I tend to ignore threats. And currently I have a lot less to lose than before, so threaten away. After a while you stop caring.

I'm also not out to give away any secrets I probably don't have. I was asking a question, not offering to answer.

But that isn't what this thread is about.

"As far as help goes, last I checked, there is the possibility of free mental health if you visit your county mental health clinic."

HA HA HA! You mean there's the possibility of going for help when your world sucks more than usual and getting told you're "garden variety nervous" and told to go away. Or of psychiatrists hanging up on you before you can even set up your first appointment! Or getting told free is only free if you're on welfare! HAHAAHAHAH So funny. :-)

So far the thread has been derailed quite professionally.... But like I said. I don't want 'help'. I want information. If there's none to give, that's fine. (But it would be nice to have some info. Whine.)

spearcarrier
First off, as someone who has always remembered a couple of her childhood training experiences, it drives me absolutely batty when I try to get in touch with a MKultra researcher and they want to "deprogram" me. Why must we always be deprogrammed? **Why** can't it be enough to just work with us to get our memories back and let us take it slow, to decide what we're going to do once we figure out what we've done? Because when I decline deprogramming in favor of NOT having Jesus, love, light, sparkles, and My Little Pony shoved down my throat I'm suddenly a Bad Person (tm). Well, shoot, when we decline to do a mission in favor of NOT having needles, etc shoved down our throats we're suddenly Bad Puppies (tm). So from my pov, the two behaviors aren't that different and it makes me nervous and distrustful. It's my mind. All I want is to remember and recall what's actually stored in it. I always figure, get past step one and we'll worry about step two later.

1. So yes. Why can't a MKultra number ask for help without being forced other help they don't feel ready for yet?

How old are you ?

How can you possibly trust your MKUltra 'handler' for help ? If they are truly going to erase one or more of your programmed 'alters', they won't live long.

Also, why is it that a lot of researchers avoid the MKultra aspect as if it were the Black Plague?

These atheist researchers cannot handle the fact that the 'alters' are in fact demons or nephil spirits.
That is why they switch off and go no further.

i see you don't want help from Jesus Christ. Well in that case you are doomed. i once prayed from the bottom of my heart and 2 demons (alters) were instantly removed. The prayer can also put you in contact with angels who can tell you what you truly are in dreams for free.

2. Why are people so afraid to research and handle the topic?

People switch off when they hear the word demons let alone units called 'alphas', 'betas', 'gammas', 'deltas' and 'omegas'. Some of these MKUltra units are even here on ATS. i am a gamma unit, spiritually minded, witnessed the 4 hells and the paradise that once existed before the Great Flood. i may have seen the coming paradise after Judgement Day.

Sometimes 'deltas' (assassins) don't want to be switched off because they know they cannot handle all of the blood on their hands.

reply to post by spearcarrier


You didn't answer my question relating to that statement. Please review my questions again. Based on my own experiences over the last few years, I cannot count how many times I had the MK-ULTRA or Monarch label thrown at me. I also had private exchanges with a self-purported deprogrammer, out of curiosity's sake, that raised considerable red flags. This individual, who has been banned from just about every site like this, was basically telling me that I needed to come to them physically, to not trust my own recollections, and to only trust them as there was no one else in my personal sphere that I could trust. Holy crap that kind of thing is dangerous. On one hand, you have the decided risk of developing false memories, which is a very real risk. There has been quite a few studies on the subject of false memories that have shown that recollection can be shifted and that's due to the collective nature of memory. That's just one risk. The other, like the things that the so-called deprogrammer that I had exchanges with, is even scarier. Basically, attempting to take a psychologically vulnerable individual that is likely to have experienced real abuse and manipulation and inserting them into a situation where they are utterly dependent on just one person. That is the stuff of cults.

Do weird things happen with people? Absolutely, not going to deny that based on my own experiences. However, jumping to sanctioned abuse and claiming needles in the event of declining a mission really requires an onus of proof on the declarer. The latter especially is without rationale at all because there are plenty of people that can and willingly do unsavory things on this planet. Look at the Iceman for example.

Like I said though, you offered no explanation or answer to the questions that I very specifically asked. Why? *

* You did follow up on the questions. Thank you for clarifying.

This format on my cell appears odd...I hope I am responding on right thread. I came in here after someone on another forum said Michael Aquino was on this forum...but link was no good. So I stumbled into this thread.

Yes...you are absolutely correct...you should reject socalled 'deprogramming'...no such thing. Its part of containment programs. There's what I call ' debriefing'....but. that has to be done a certain way....without getting all tangled up in diversionary programming. Then yes again...why should you have 'Jesus' shoved down your throat....absolutely right...and wrong all at the same time. 'Jesus' and 'Salvation' programming was already shoved down your mindhole when you were a kid. Its part ....a big part of containment programming.....its a failsafe if you will...a back up program to contain whatever information and memory the Monarch Multiple who has become coconscious and aware of what happened to them...to keep them from accessing any further or discovering any more information via memories ir mind files.

Yes.....MKULTRA.....is a cover ....cover programs callled ' experiments'. by researchers......which was a way to access and divert funding into paying contractors....contractors and operators ....which incidently included many if not all of the 'researchers'.

This was not about experiments...this was and is about a form of total control from cradle to grave if a certain demographic based primarily on DNA signatures....lines of genetically inherited traits ....breed and conditioned into human beings of a certain 'tribal' lineage.....which extends all the way back to the Great Colonization of this planet and continues to this day. A subjugation...rule by proxy...by way of total enslavement starting early on in childhood...infancy for most.

Called or referred to as Monarch Mind Control or systematic trauma conditioning is as old and well developed as recorded history.....the only innovations made primarily by a man known as Dr. Green....who has been identified as Joseph Mengeles.....the Infamous Nazi doctor ....whose nane originally by the way was not Mengeles...but rather Greenbaum. He innovated much of modern day programming and was considered a brilliant man and revered by those who work on the darkside.

The term Monarch has often been described as having to do with Monarch Butterflies...even by this author...before I knew better. The term describes and actually refers to those who know...at the deeper levels....that it actually refers to a long term intergenerational 'project' to return the globe to a pluralty of Monarchies ....all linked by intercepting bloodlines and controlled by a hierarchy of mind controlled slaves extending all the way up the 'food chain' to an 'off Planet' apex if power and control.

You see what most people don't realize is who and what the Illuminati really is.....WE ARE THEM......and the higher up you go the entrenched the control over them and the more brutal and extreme the trauma-conditioning is ....and as a result ...the more abhorent the behavior is as a 'side effect' ...intended in some cases and enhanced and manipulated for ulterior purposes by handlers and programmers....most of whom themselves are Monarch Slaves.

Okay...enough for now ...please excuse spelling and typos....hope that clarifies sone things on this topic.

Good Luck in your search...

Pro Libertate!

-OSR

reply to post by spearcarrier


Have you checked out Project Camelot, Miles at the Original Bases Project, or Anya at anyaisachannel?

reply to post by Onesmartrat


Oh irony abounds. Beautiful timing, OSR. I know you though I question your favorite username. I think another s word would probably be more accurate of description, oh one who claims to know it all.

reply to post by Onesmartrat


PS Yes....there is the scare of false memories...but in fact that label has been created by the very same people who are the handler programmers as a way to mislead and discredit anyone ....particularily in the psychotherapeutic field who legitmizes the reality of Monarch Mind Control.

Anyone who has done extensive work in this area knows that human beings have memories of this type of life long systematic trauma stored differently than normal human memory. They also know how to discern....and how to assist the individual they are working with the difference between actual 'real time' or operational memory...or programming sessions from Internal World Reality Sets....or scenes. Or to tell hallucination or street theatre....meaning implanted screen memories or those acted out by others masquerading as something else for one level of alters ( Ie Brain Wave States) while something completely different is going on with the deeper alter state programming or operation....operation as in OP.....military or Intel-wise that is......okay.

I am afraid if you buy into the false memory spin....you have drank their Koolaide.

False Memory Syndrome is False by its very nature as explained above.


Pro Libertate!

-OSR

"How can you possibly trust your MKUltra 'handler' for help ?"

But I'm confused. I'm not talking about handlers? I'm talking about people who make their entire focus learning the program and have a history of "deprogramming" people. Of course now that I want one of those names none come to mind. Just a big letter S. But hopefully you know what I'm talking about.

"i see you don't want help from Jesus Christ. Well in that case you are doomed."

Well, you didn't mean to... but I think you've answered part of one of my questions. :-)

Does everyone feel that way in this field? Everyone is would even touch this (except for James Bartley) have this sort of Christian world view?

"You didn't answer my question relating to that statement. Please review my questions again."

Upon reviewing, I think I have... so maybe I misunderstand. Sorry if I do. I'm trying not to. Or maybe I haven't been clear in some way... I try to be, hence the stories. But I'm not sure how else to answer without launching into more stories.

"I also had private exchanges with a self-purported deprogrammer, out of curiosity's sake, that raised considerable red flags."

Well I haven't had to deal with THAT, thank goodness. I hope you managed to steer clear of them. The people I have talked with, however, are the reputable type with names you might even recognize. :-) Not all had weird conditions, but one was very clear that if I wasn't willing to "heal" on her conditions I could forget it. Some I just flat couldn't afford. I'd like to, mind you. I know it's their time they're essentially wasting. But that's neither here nor there.

"On one hand, you have the decided risk of developing false memories, which is a very real risk"

Yes. That's something to be wary of in a quest like this isn't it. Everything in my head is always under severe scrutiny. I've often thrown out everything to start over, just in case.

"Like I said though, you offered no explanation or answer to the questions that I very specifically asked. Why? "

Okay I'm going to reread one more time. I can tell you in advance that if it wasn't associated with my original topic and was more centered on my personal being, well. The answer was given when I stated that verifying my story was not necessary here. Because it's not. This isn't about my story.

"There's what I call ' debriefing'....but. that has to be done a certain way....without getting all tangled up in diversionary programming."

That's interesting sounding. Would you be interested in telling us more about this?

"This was not about experiments...this was and is about a form of total control from cradle to grave if a certain demographic based primarily on DNA signatures....lines of genetically inherited traits ....breed and conditioned into human beings of a certain 'tribal' lineage.....which extends all the way back to the Great Colonization of this planet and continues to this day. A subjugation...rule by proxy...by way of total enslavement starting early on in childhood...infancy for most."

I've heard something like this from other places as well on more than one occasion. I already knew about it, of course, although I tend to disagree on the whole lineage angle people throw in there. I don't believe someone is a "super soldier" because they happen to be of a certain tribe. I could believe they were chosen because their DNA mathematical equation had aligned in just the right way for them to be suitable for this or that particular purpose. You don't have to be native American or English for that to happen, though. Sure it helps if your ancestors sometimes had similar math equations, but someone completely unrelated has a small chance too.

I've been pondering the lineage angle for a long time, actually. Shoot, one of my ancestors is purported to be Pocahontas. I don't think that amounts to a hill of beans in anything today except I can wear a t-shirt that reads "My ancestor was a Disney Princess."

So MKultra was a cover.. okay, but what are the programs NOW?

"Have you checked out Project Camelot, Miles at the Original Bases Project, or Anya at anyaisachannel? "

Yes, I've looked at Camelot, just recently as a matter of fact. Haven't heard of the other two!! Thank you for this. THIS is a start on what I was looking for. Hopefully they'll have some good stuff to listen to.

Off to reread.

reply to post by spearcarrier


Depending on what occurred with you, it could be very difficult to receive help. I know that in my specific case and via that direct, physical evidence, part of the abuse specific to me was perpetrated by professionals. This issue was the first thing that a friend of mine, a psychologist, noted immediately after reviewing my bit of evidence (who, btw, did acknowledge the tape as being dangerous and grossly unethical). It basically creates a scenario of total distrust. It's like being molested by a doctor--it's hard to trust doctors after one has taken advantage of that position. I hear you on that one.

I also have not received any threats though I've put the access to that tape of mine online in the hopes of getting it broken. Even if it's use was unsanctioned, having such a thing out in the public sphere might not be favorable. I was really concerned about putting it out there but rationalized that I was a. only one person online who couldn't plunk the cassette in to a tape player for the entire world to see and hear due to anonymity and etc, b. plausible deniability (partly based on a), and c. most people don't give a damn about the sordid underbelly of things. I haven't received any threats either. In fact, other than trying to figure things out on my own, my life is pretty much completely normal. The only thing that has changed is my worldview.

I'm not intending to derail. I'm trying to, instead, be cautionary. Having amnesia bites. Having people that want to steer your memory into being something of their liking or ideology? That's wretched.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Yes....the timing is interesting....see how the Universe itself is reaching out to you. Were I so lucky as you on my path of self-discovery.
Oh and as far as usernames....well....your's tells me everything I need to know.

It's a shame ...for someone who says they worked with me how little you have seemed to progress in yoor own search after all these years. Heck....even I have progressed and grown and changed certain perspectives.You would unfortunatly appear to be stuck in the very same place...when I last spoke to you.

This I can only take partial responsibility for as my knowledge....my awakened understanding did not afford me the level required to work with someone like you....a little higher up in the caste system than many of the others I worked with at that time.

I am however much more skilled and woud be most willing to assist you should you ever have a change of ...heart...and ultimately....'minds'.

Take good care White Alice .....nice to chat with you again....!

You can find me these days at ...L.....O......P.



Pro Libertate!

-OSR

Okay, going slowly through all the questions and will answer or not in order as I can. Unless I think I already answered. I hope this makes things clear.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


"What makes you so certain that you were, in fact, a victim of MK-ULTRA?"

... please see statement about researcher. And understand I don't want to launch into another story being as this isn't the point of my original three questions... and it would be a lot of typing. My hand can only go so much longer before it stops working. Sorry!

"Why are you taking the leap to being a victim of MK-ULTRA?"

K, this is just a rephrase of the first question and so I figured it was answered.

"However, you feel at liberty enough, even with the state of online surveillance being known, to post the above post without risk of fall out or endangerment of your person?"

This was answered... and I had even copy pasted it before above my answer.

"Does that make sense to you?"

Yes, because being afraid to move is tantamount to being a rabbit. I am not a rabbit. I didn't even breed like one.

"If they know you're aware, why haven't you been thrown from the freedom train and why would they consider you to be a still usable asset? "

Because I'm NOT a valuable asset, I'm sure. A valuable asset would be a risk to security. Furthermore, it's not like things haven't gotten bolder by "them" lately. Look around you, listen to the news. They barely hide their agenda anymore. Also, why kill me when all they gotta do is let me tell my stories? Boom. I'm instantly insane, no effort required. All that needs to happen is for someone to come along and say "you can get mental health care through this avenue" and my entire focus is undone.

Also any experiences I have lately of being thrown from said freedom train would involve stories. (Where on earth do people get the idea that trains are for freedom when they've been packaging up people to ship them to concentration camps since Geronimo??) And I'm not here to tell my story. Shoot, aside from the one with the two men I find myself not inclined to share a lot that has happened. I just don't want to.

So no offense, but I guess I can't answer that any better than this. I'm sorry. At least it's not relevant to the point of discussion? I'm not trying to put you off or be rude.

" The last thing you want is somebody who is biased towards a specific claim. "

Not a question, but I'd meant to say before: hear hear.

Off to explore the info I've been given!!! (Woot.)

reply to post by WhiteAlice


" In fact, other than trying to figure things out on my own, my life is pretty much completely normal. The only thing that has changed is my worldview. "

Oh exactly! Okay so we acknowledge there was this event or series of events. We still get up, put our pants on, wash the dishes, etc....

At least with the change in worldview there's room to explore. That can be a neat thing, even if it comes out of tragedy.

"I'm not intending to derail. I'm trying to, instead, be cautionary. Having amnesia bites. Having people that want to steer your memory into being something of their liking or ideology? That's wretched. "

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I'm truly sorry. I understand the caution, but truly I just wanted some technical information. It gives me things to work with, to understand more with. Most of the mystery the world holds for me is "why on earth would someone do that". I just don't understand things like how you could bomb a child's house or whatever. I know that people do it. I don't understand why on some occasions.

I very much value why.

"It basically creates a scenario of total distrust."

Which is what they want you know. Isolation of your own choice. (In my case it's often isolation when I get too close, though. I don't like being isolated much.)

Evidence: I used to have little things I had collected but they've all disappeared. Just files on my computer, conversations, a trinket I managed to bring back from "work" with me. The last piece was collected by a hypnotist. He took my evidence, bagged it, waited a week, stopped answering my phone calls for me to arrange a second session. Go figure.

Very very brave of you to put that tape online. Has anything good come from that act of bravery by chance? Any steps forward?

reply to post by Onesmartrat


My username is intentional based off of a rather sad family story in regards to the White Alice Communications System. Unless you're trying to claim that I am under some Wizard of Oz programming, I don't see how it relates. God knows the USAF had a serious love of their Oz names during that time period.

I'm actually doing quite well and have sorted many, many things out quite well on my own. It's amazing what paperwork and blackmail can bring. I bolted from contact with you because you were getting a little bent sounding in your replies. Are you going to start having trouble typing as you're struggling with urges to try to control me as you once claimed? It must really sadden you that somebody got out of the maze that you were trying to lay so, of course, you would view me as someone still stuck. But, honey, let me tell you that I know so much about me now...without you. And through recollection.

You claimed that I couldn't trust my own memories because they were all fabricated lies. The thing is, what I remembered was extraordinarily consistent with what I found I already knew. There are all sorts of ways to confirm a memory as being valid and so far, I've not had a single false memory.

I'll pass on the offer of your "assistance". By your suggestion, I would've not had a single soul but you in my life to trust. No thanks. I am very capable of discerning who is trustworthy and who is not in my own life, tyvm. You are exactly the person that I was describing in my prior post. Are you related to Beetlejuice?

reply to post by WhiteAlice


No one can "steer" anyone's memory...the truth is either there or not. In the case of Monarch Mind Control.....because of the nature and manner of what was done....there is inbuilt programming done while the child was under intense pain....and subsequently programmming embedded designed to thwart the individual's own attempts to discover or uncover true recollections as well as an entire internal system if various alters and introjects whose job it is to protect the individual (internal child) from people with the requisite knowledge and skills to help them navigate through what is essentially an inbuilt mindfield of transparent fractioned off parts...or alters via torture and dissociation ...of self....or selves ...whose sole purpose is to abide by the originating programmer's instructions and life threatening pain and psychologically induced somatoform effects that occur within these selves....these internal introjects....wallled off from the conscious subjective mind...yet still moving thoughts and emotions away from self-discovery....and imposing enemy status on anyone who might have the knowledge and skill to navigate the impacted person around and through all those programming firewalls.

Pro Libertate!

-OSR