MH370: Malaysian PM tells passengers’ families missing plane crashed in Indian Ocean

Zaphod58
reply to post by BurningSpearess

 

And planes can't turn? When they left radar coverage they were heading Northwest. It's a simple matter for it to turn and head into the Indian Ocean, and down near Australia.

Not saying that, just commenting on a post's cited source which does NOT indicate a 90-180 degree turnabout...

Let's assume the source is incorrect on leaving out data, then, shall we?

This opens a whole can of worms...

Why didn't the Royal Malaysian AF take off after the plane heads NE, then, heads W, then, heads NW, then heads S?

Without communications (lost communications at that), mind you?

Add that up for me, & I might be slightly convinced...

But expect more questioning where that comes in my dumb blonde brain...

NoRulesAllowed

And......what does "assume beyond any reasonable doubt" mean?

You either assume....or you don't. You do not assume "beyond any reasonable doubt", if that's the case you KNOW something for a fact rather than "assume". I think this is bizarre. Seriously, THOSE PEOPLE ARE CLOWNS.

(I am still puzzled and perplexed by them saying "that none of those on board survived"...it's still a statement impossible to make even if the chance of survivors might be extremely slim. AT THIS POINT we do not even know for sure about the identity of those objects.)

I would expect that they 'must assume beyond any reasonable doubt' because of the original satellite tracking, and subsequent comparisons made with other aircraft that appear to be irrefutable according to the satellite company, and the peer reviewers who would have the need to make the same calculations, which are the basis for the recalculation and the latest findings. The objects have nothing to do with it, so far they are just objects.

Some people are forgetting something in the conspiracy rush. Now more than even before this latest announcement, the Maylasian authorities need/have to find the plane, or at least much of its structure. The French did so in the case of their lost plane, the cost of that was astronomical, but they did find it, not that it was easy, but the same rationale applys, there is a need to know what happened to the plane, to do that it must be found. All those involved will know that.

BurningSpearess
Let's assume the source is incorrect on leaving out data, then, shall we?

There is no reason to assume that at all. Radar only sees out to 300-400 miles at best, unless it's on a mountain top, or somewhere high, and then you only get another 100 miles or so. They were at the edge of radar range when they were tracked heading NW.

This opens a whole can of worms...

Why didn't the Royal Malaysian AF take off after the plane heads NE, then, heads W, then, heads NW, then heads S?

Without communications (lost communications at that), mind you?

Add that up for me, & I might be slightly convinced...

Not really. If it's in international airspace (which it appears to be at least part of the time) then it's not required to transmit a transponder, or talk to ATC. When it crossed the peninsula it may or may not have been tracked in real time, or the operator may have assumed it was a military flight and ignored it. There are any number of explanations as to why it happened, but the odds are very good that by the time it turned more Southward, it was long out of everyone's radar range.

As a pilot, I want to know why the captain (If he did this) went to all this trouble just to run out of fuel and fall from the sky? Suicide? No? Terrorism No? Something does not smell right at all. AT ALL.

Bull# yes.

Just going with the 'it's in Pakistan' theory for a minute. If this is the case, it suggests to me that the hijackers demanded a ransom for the passengers, the governments told them they do not do deals with terrorists and so they have all been murdered. This would be something you would keep from the world in order not to look like the biggest bastards alive. I remember early into the SAR it was announced that the Malaysian Prime Minister was flying to an 'undisclosed' location the following day, which was a strange thing to announce, and nothing was ever said about it again.

One fly in this ointment (amongst many) would be that if the plane was taken by terrorists, I'm sure they would have gone to the media - Al Jazeera for example - so that the public would know and put pressure on their governments to come up with the money. So I've just refuted my own case, really. It was just a thought.


And I now realise the 'it's in Pakistan' theory is in the other thread - sorry for confusion.

CaptainBeno
As a pilot, I want to know why the captain (If he did this) went to all this trouble just to run out of fuel and fall from the sky? Suicide? No? Terrorism No? Something does not smell right at all. AT ALL.

Bull# yes.

IF it was an intentional turn and he did this I can only assume he thought he would be able to land it somewhere, IF something happened that incapacitated them all, then well it just flew.. only a thought on that..

CaptainBeno
As a pilot, I want to know why the captain (If he did this) went to all this trouble just to run out of fuel and fall from the sky? Suicide? No? Terrorism No? Something does not smell right at all. AT ALL.

Bull# yes.

The most plausible theory still some sort of emergency, fire, crew/people unconsciousness...plane continuing on autopilot til out of fuel.
I actually tend strongly towards the fire theory especially since some witnesses reported the plane burning.

The theory is actually NOT that far fetched, at all.

smurfy

I would expect that they 'must assume beyond any reasonable doubt' because of the original satellite tracking, and subsequent comparisons made with other aircraft that appear to be irrefutable according to the satellite company, and the peer reviewers who would have the need to make the same calculations, which are the basis for the recalculation and the latest findings. The objects have nothing to do with it, so far they are just objects.

Some people are forgetting something in the conspiracy rush. Now more than even before this latest announcement, the Maylasian authorities need/have to find the plane, or at least much of its structure. The French did so in the case of their lost plane, the cost of that was astronomical, but they did find it, not that it was easy, but the same rationale applys, there is a need to know what happened to the plane, to do that it must be found. All those involved will know that.

The thing is I don't think the Malaysian govt or the UK satellite company really know where it is.

I could be proven dead wrong in the next day or so, but I think they came up with this just so they don't have to tell the families something like "It's been two weeks and we know as much about where MH370 is as we did the day it vanished, in all likelyhood we'll never know what exactly happened to your loved ones".

I'm not saying that NOBODY knows where it is. As a CT I think some of this stuff points to the plane being stolen and landed somewhere - going off course after the handover in a spot where it had gone out of radar range, NO debris from the plane found after two weeks, apparently manual shutoff of the ACARS system, no mayday call etc.

andy1972
Thank christ for that...no more - alien black hole royal family time warp bermuda triangle philidelphia experiment cloaking fantasy island "Mr Roarke de plane de plane" threads.

At least the families may have some closure on the subject now.

edit on PM1Mon20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

didn't read the whole thread, did you?

lemme recap...

they provided no concrete proof that the plane has, in fact, crashed....their statement said, and i'm paraphrasing here, "we're gonna need you to assume your friends/family/wtfever are dead, because assumptions are good enough for us at this point". the families of the people on the plane aren't buying it, and they're really pissed...pissed enough to release a statement calling the Malaysian government, military, and the airline, liars, and idiots.......

yeah, this isn't over....

reply to post by NoRulesAllowed

The most plausible theory still some sort of emergency, fire, crew/people unconsciousness...plane continuing on autopilot til out of fuel.
I actually tend strongly towards the fire theory especially since some witnesses reported the plane burning.

The theory is actually NOT that far fetched, at all.

Apart from the fact that if there is an emergency the pilots go to oxygen mask immediately / or hood. A mayday call is made. Or Pan pan pan. Transponder code changed to emergency. Transmission broadcast. Plenty plenty plenty places to land in that area.

FMC Flight management computer was changed several times then programmed to take this course at that height and that speed. No mistake. Programmed.

Nothing adds up here.

Pilots are trained to do things immediately in the event of something like you are suggesting. Even if the whole aircraft were dead from something. The pilots would be alive on oxygen and able to squeeze at least one broadcast off. We are told to communicate asap.

No Epirb signals, no emergency broadcasts, no black box pings. No miles and miles of floating wreckage. No oil. Nothing.

reply to post by CaptainBeno


If this is one of the 380 with bad wiring, the fire may have started in the cockpit. They do a quick autopilot program, to head towards a nearby island, with a 13,000 foot runway, and try to fight the fire. Can't go to oxygen, because the fire is in the cockpit oxygen system, pilots get overcome, plane continues as programmed, and eventually crashes due to fuel starvation.

BurningSpearess




Why didn't the Royal Malaysian AF take off after the plane heads NE, then, heads W, then, heads NW, then heads S?

Without communications (lost communications at that), mind you?

Add that up for me, & I might be slightly convinced...

But expect more questioning where that comes in my dumb blonde brain...

the flight was being tracked by Thai military radar,


Thai military radar is tracking the plane's signal, but it disappears at 1:22 a.m.
1:28 a.m.: Thai radar picks up unknown aircraft
The Thai radar station in southern Surathani province picks up an unknown aircraft flying in a direction opposite to what Flight 370 had been traveling.

2:15 a.m.:
Though the Malaysian plane is not transmitting information by ACARS or transponder,( 1.07-1.37a.m. switch off for ACARS) radar on the ground or elsewhere can still detect a plane in the air.
According to a Malaysian Air Force official, military radar tracked a plane as it passed over the small island of Pulau Perak in the Strait of Malacca.

It took another hour+ before Malaysian Airways declared that MH370 was missing, after making verifications.

up to 1.21 the Thai air force tracking would have known the aircraft, The Malaysian air force tracking would of been an unknown, not of a lost comm passenger airliner at that time. What the Thai tracking thought of their unknown, or the earlier loss of transponder from a plane they would have known, I have no idea.

Zaphod58
reply to post by CaptainBeno

 

If this is one of the 380 with bad wiring, the fire may have started in the cockpit. They do a quick autopilot program, to head towards a nearby island, with a 13,000 foot runway, and try to fight the fire. Can't go to oxygen, because the fire is in the cockpit oxygen system, pilots get overcome, plane continues as programmed, and eventually crashes due to fuel starvation.

The thing there is that if the quick autopilot program was what caused it to go west over Malaysia (I think I'm right that it did that pretty much as soon as things went 'wrong'), then how did it later turn NW before ending up in the Southern Indian Ocean?

Also, is there any truth to the idea that the autopilot was re-programmed before the final "All right, good night" message from the plane? I think I saw that on the MSM but I don't know how we would know that it happened, unless the final ACARS transmission told us.

reply to post by Vasteel


If it was programmed to head to say, Perth, then it would make the turns at the right places, and appear to be under control as it flew the programmed course. Some autopilots have canned destinations in them, and it would be much quicker to use one of those that took you towards where you wanted to go, and then cancel it at the right time, than to program in the place you're actually going for, and taking the time to do it.

I'm wary of anything that comes through the Malaysian government. They have too much to gain from this being a hijacking.

1,700 relatives coming in to Australia on charted flights, nice way for illegals to to slip into the country.
I hope they aren't going to slip off the radar once they have finished their grieving process.

OK, I guess i'm going to be the first.

Blah blah blah, floating debris, blah blah off track, blah blah blah satellite.





Bring it.

The Chinese are demanding proof. This whole situation stinks to high heaven. IDK what to think?

reply to post by Zaphod58


Oh I see. I thought that the autopilot headed more or less directly west from where the trouble started and was going straight towards the nearest runway (possibly Langkawi International), as per the "experienced pilots theory" that first suggested fire.

I'll check that, I think that's where the Diego Garcia theories come from (i.e you would go west over the peninsula, then SW to DG), as well as the pilots home flight sim setup having run DG as a practice landing site. Although on that note, I saw videos with titles like "MH370 Pilot Practiced Diego Garcia on Simulator", but the videos themselves demonstrated no such thing.

reply to post by Vasteel


It followed the established jetway, and went from waypoint to waypoint heading southwest. Which means that it was programmed for something that way. The initial heading took it towards Langkwi(sp?), which would be the best airport for them to go to. Nice long runway, no terrain to have to dodge on the way in, etc.

reply to post by CaptainBeno


Its kinda suspect until we actually see the gather planed parts in high resolution removed from the sea.
I would like to know how many countries near by have Black Box locating planes that are closer and if so why is America so interested in being first to find it.. I also understand a US under water submerged vessel is also joining search.