It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

If 'every' tongue shall confess "Jesus is Lord", will all be saved and does free-will exist?

page: 3
2
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 09:31 PM
link   
Tell me something.

Why is it that everywhere and every time I see a pyramid I find slavery. Then I find religion used to pacify and condition the slaves so there is no rebellion. Then I find that I have to obey this god or that. Then I find armies willing to cage me or kill me if I don't obey the rulers "laws"

why is that? Why am I a "savage" and others arent? Why is someone holier than me? More worthy? Why is someone always smarter, faster more capable... going somewhere. WTF is the difference between me and you. If I accept this "Jesus" or "god" am I equal then? Why also do I find destruction at the each of these cycles? and Im told Im going here or there but ONLY if I did x,y,z.

why is someone mad because I'm writing this?
edit on 23-3-2014 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 09:56 PM
link   
reply to post by Nephalim
 


you should stop eating babies you savage! LOL


To accept Jesus is to believe in what he said... he told us to help one another, love and respect one another... don't judge people because its not your place, its Gods

What he said was simple, eloquent and truth... IF one can live by what he said, it will literally change your life, first from the inside as in the way you look at things, then from the outside...

We are a reflection of God... and as such we should treat everyone as that reflection...


35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.





posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 10:18 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


without jesus who you be?



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 10:31 PM
link   

Nephalim
reply to post by Akragon
 


without jesus who you be?


Who "would" I be?

I suppose I would be who I was before I understood him...

Quite selfish, issues with anger... I enjoyed fighting, even starting fights when I was provoked

Not a nice person in general




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 10:48 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


So you were a "savage" before now pacified by religion...?

You dont beat people up anymore... how do you defend yourself?



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 10:53 PM
link   

Nephalim
reply to post by Akragon
 


So you were a "savage" before now pacified by religion...?

You dont beat people up anymore... how do you defend yourself?


Not religion my friend... philosophy

I have no religion... nor do I subscribe to any label

My beliefs are what they are, and they come from the gospels...

I no longer need to defend myself... and people don't have any interest in fighting with me...




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 11:34 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


Seems to be the next step passed religion then. A general understanding of spirituality and humanity. Which is funny though, its all the "savages" were doing themselves to begin with.
edit on 23-3-2014 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 07:42 AM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 


When His glory is revealed there is no other choice but to glorify Him. "Who will not fear you(be in awe) and Bless your Holy Name?"

I don't think its a matter of free will or predestination, as in fatalism. I don't think we are forced to worship Him. It is just what happens when His fire washes over us and burns away the dross/chaff. All that is left is precious stones, gold, silver. The divine, which is the New Man Nature DNA Divine Nature Activated.

Zephaniah 3 "my decision is to gather nations to pour out my wrath, all my fiery indignation. For at that time I will give the nations (goyim/peoples) a pure speech (see the fire to the lips of Isaiah), that all of them may call on the name of the Lord and worship Him of one accord"

Echad, unity, John 17 "I pray that they would be one as you and I are one/echad"

But there is a sense of fatalism because it is determined. "When I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all people to myself". Draw means to drag as in a fish in a net. We will be dragged into Him, as we are subjected into him like the wife into the husband, and the Son into the Father (see 1 Cor 15, which also speaks of the Resurrection in 3 classes). But ultimately we must pass through the fire, which is the Orge (wrath) of His love poured out on Us, now as the first fruits or then as the Lake of Fire. But we will be purified by the brimstone (sulfur which is used to purify temples), and the fire (Pur/pyre/purify/sanctify), as the Lord comes to the laver to remove the dross from the priests.

As in Adam (flesh/dross/chaff/earth) all die (are veiled/dead/separated in mind), so also in Christ (Spirit/Gold/Gems/Divine/Heaven) are all made alive (resurrected/re-born/unified/unveiled)




posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 09:47 AM
link   
reply to post by Nephalim
 



Text WTF is the difference between me and you. If I accept this "Jesus" or "god" am I equal then? Why also do I find destruction at the each of these cycles? and Im told Im going here or there but ONLY if I did x,y,z.


No. You are not equal to anyone. You are judged by every word that comes out of your own mouth by the Judge. You may be better than most of us but no one really knows who is better or best. You may be more precious to God than all of us so called righteous self made people. In fact we may be outside looking in to you. Your reward in the eternal celestial order may be greater than even you could imagine and certainly not up to anyone else.

You debase yourself because you are absolutely right in that every man, woman and child of accountable age is guilty of hell. Not one is pure or righteous in that we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. You are justified by first doing what you have done. You have confessed to the world that you are an absolutely filth rag that deserves nothing from the Creator except annihilation. But that does not only apply to you it also applies to me and all creation. Fear of God is wisdom and from wisdom comes love. There are some that will seem holier than others but people are not the Judge. They only think they are the Judge.



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 11:40 AM
link   
reply to post by Seede
 

. . . judged by every word that comes out of your own mouth . . .
That phraseology comes from the Luke 19 version of the parable of the Ten Talents. The returning master says this to the unproductive servant after he tries to shift the blame onto the master for having a pattern of behavior that strikes fear in the minds of anyone subject to his authority.
The reply that this quote comes from is the master saying basically that "because you thought I was a hard man, I will be hard on you."
So, I don't think your quote is appropriate to your use of it in your post.
Now there is another quote that is similar, that comes from Matthew,

"For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

which is part of Jesus' saying that what is inside a person will be evident by how he speaks.
I don't think this is much better because I think that Jesus is here being a bit allegorical rather than literal.
I doubt that here Jesus was giving a lecture on the proceedings of a court scene judgment where the accused will be acting on his own behalf to present an oral defense of his life.
The context of the quote is the Pharisees saying to themselves that Jesus performed miracles by the aid of evil demons.
So he is sort of throwing it back at them, that they have something evil inside them.
So the "judgement" scenario is not at all central but is a rhetorical device and not necessarily based on anything more factual than the fact that a lot of people believed in a personal judgment after death, specifically the followers of phariseeism.
edit on 24-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 03:05 PM
link   
------------------------------
"That is not "literal".It doesn't mean you need to have a "physical" tongue nor does it mean to "confess" in the literal sense...nor the bending of a knee..etc etc.Here is that scripture.
............................
There are many references in the bible confirming the following verses in the 1611 KJV bible -

Phillipians 2:9-11 - (9)Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him,(meaning Jesus) and given him a name which is above every name: (10)That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (11)And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Not all tongues will confess that Jesus is is the Christ to the glory of God. Some will curse God to the glory of Satan and will go down to the pit of hell.
---------------------------
YET...that scripture clearly stated EVERYONE will"confess"It says NOTHING of cursing especially to the glory of satan or the pit of hell ....those are your extrapolations.

There is NOTHING in the scriptures that even say HELL at all.That is a a very poor agenda translation of the words hades,Gehenna,or Tartarus... Gehenna and Tartarus are called the pit and neither of them exist.Gehenna is no more and Tartarus is Greek myth.Please do not go into your poor extrapolation of Abraham's bosom .terrestrial,celestial etc etc....there is NOTHING to support it except A parable that is CLEARLY a parable.You are building a house on a mountain of sand.
----------------------------------

Romans 14:12,13 - (12)So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (13)Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
-----------------

yes .....EVERYONE will give ACCOUNT of what they have "done" (it is NOT a cosmic courtroom)...including YOU and all who believe they WON'T because they have been "forgiven" of what you believe is "pardoned" from guilt.Forgiveness does not mean "pardoned from guilt it means freed from bondage.

Paul is talking to YOU!It is YOU that are judging others and saying "some" will curse God to the Glory of Satan.That is a huge judgement(false) and a stumbling block to YOU and whomever would foolishly believe it and those you accuse.

-------------------
Christ is not Jesus last name.It means anointing....blah blah blah....

-----------------------------------

The scriptures above define Christ as an entity (Begotten Son of God) who is the image of the Spirit God who was and is The Word of God. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and the only Christ of God's creation.

John 1:1-3 - (1)In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2)The same was in the beginning with God. (3)All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

-------------------------------------
.Where in John 1:1-3 does it say"christ" is an entity...or "Spirit of God" or "made in the image of" or "only begotten" or "only christ.......you extrapolated that from multiple scriptures(and your own) and amalgamated them and the transposed it into this one.

on those notes...NOwhere in the scriptures does it say the creator God"has" a spirit.John rightfully says "the creator God IS spirit".You are trying to anthropomorphize the creator God as a created being or entity.To clarify The creator God IS spirit(life).That means The creator God is "I will BE what I will BE".The creator God does not "have" a spirit nor IS a spirit "being" or entity.The creator God is the Father of ALL life.The Son is the seed OF the Father of the physical realm.

There is no such thing as the Trinity (1)Father(2) SON (3) holy Spirit..... THEY ARE ONE!!The scriptures DOES NOT say Yahoshua is the only begotten "christ".....The scriptures call David "a christ" and even the King of Babylon.

Yahoshua IS the ONLY begotten SON.....the SEED.The Son is OF the Father becauseYahoshua is the SEED of God...that is the meaning of the LIVING Word of God....it has ZERO to do with "scripture" and especially not the error riddled "bible" of man and all of your false religious extrapolations.

------------------------
The scripture above is one of the most twisted religious scripture of all...blah blah blah......

--------------------------------
The scriptures do not condemn any man or woman.
__________________

FINALLY!!! you said one true statement that I had to extract from your others.You are right the scriptures NOR the creator God CONDEMNS ANYONE..and no it isn't because they "condemn" themselves.That is just religious semantics.

-----------------
Those who kick against the pricks stub their own toes. God will not make you bow down to Him; you will bow in your own will and shame at your judgment. The apostles judge no one. We judge ourselves through our own misunderstandings and willful sins.

------------------

Please show ONE scripture that says this...this is another extrapolation assumption....Bow IN your OWN will and shame doesn't even make sense.The judgement is NOT a courtroom.The judgment is the accountability for what we do and ARE.It is not a trail then sentencing.There will be no "genuflecting" or self flagellation for "sin"and dramatic scene as you are painting.Everything is not "legal" as you perceive it.Sin is missing the mark of maturity..i.e..being immature.You are accountable for YOUR imatturity because it will exact it's toll.The kangaroo court of Jesus as judge ,jury and executioner "sentencing" people for sins because they don't "beleive" a false religious doctrine is futile foolishness.
----------------------

John 1:17 - For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
---------------------------
YES !! but where is the truth in what you said.You have strung together judgmental extrapolations that completely contradict the nature and character of Yahoshua....Yahweh salvation..The Son of God...The SAVOR of ALL mankind.....yet that isn't who "you" believe in.You believe in a Jesus that is made in YOUR image who judges unrighteously condemns and accuses and is an adversary.

Paul said rightfully."The creator God has given them over to a strong delusion that they would believe a lie." Yahoshua also spoke of those....",In that day MANY will come in my name saying I am christ and will deceive many".

There is is only one group of "many"(approximately 2 billion ) that fit this to a tee..they come in "Jesus" name and say they are "christian"(little christ) and deceive many(mostly themselves). Fortunately for you and billions of others ,you will not be unrighteously judged as you have judged others with the eternal punishment of "hell" because YOU believe they curse God to the glory of Satan (as you said above ).That belief is is blasphemy of the Holy spirit which will not be forgiven( freed from bondage) in this age(the earth age) nor the one to come.

I have no idea why ANYONE would want to believe such perversion and then revel in it like the creator God agrees tacitly with them.Yet that is what you have done over and over in may threads.The simple clear FACT is Yahoshua IS Yahweh's salvation..the deliverer of ALL mankind regardless of your perverted desire to damn them to hell and have the unmitigated gall to say that is what the creator God wills.





edit on 24-3-2014 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-3-2014 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 04:04 PM
link   
reply to post by Rex282
 

. . . YET...that scripture clearly stated EVERYONE will"confess" . . .
It may not be as "clear" as it might seem on the surface.
I would recommend for everyone to read the book,

A Hymn of Christ: Philippians 2:5-11 in Recent Interpretation & in the Setting of Early Christian Worship, by Ralph P. Martin
www.amazon.com...
I have the Google Play e-book version, which is cheaper, since Amazon only sells the hard copy version.

It has been long understood by the church that here Paul was actually quoting a hymn that was then in contemporary use.
So he wasn't necessarily revealing some sort of vision that he was the sole recipient of.
He was citing the communal vision of the church as to the status of their Lord.
My point is that If this is just a saying that church members shared with themselves, the "every" could just mean everybody in the church.

The alternative name for the above mentioned book is Carmen Christi . . .
You can google that, which I did, and found a site,
davidbcapes.com...
that explains the hymnal aspect of the passage in question.



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 08:43 PM
link   

arpgme
The Bible says that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and that every knee of Heaven, Earth, and Below shall bow down at the name of Jesus to glorify God:
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

So, Jesus is not God but 'a Demi-God' (as if we havent had enough of them already). What exactly does "LORD" mean; in feudal terms GrB. (high chancellor) highest officer of the state. Freewill goes out the window with this mandated proclaimation even if you could convince different provences (continents) in the accepting of this demi-god as their savior; they already have doctrines in place; some for thousands of years. Try convincing Buddhists or Communists or Hindi or Moslems or Aborigines or etc (my guess is the Jesuit Marine RRC Monks and Mormans missed an opportunity or the historical timing was way off somewhere). How did they miss possible conversion of Papua New Guinea and its natives; the Yoyoama cannibalistic/head shrinkers? There was a reason for the variations of worship in vague time periods throughout history (quell the masses, subjugate them). Whos idea was it that Jesus was the end all be all as far as idolatry is concerned? NOT HIS I CAN ASSURE YOU (certainly not to be worshipped as he was a man and just a messenger relaying the sound frequencies heard in his supernatural earbuds to anyone that would listen). Id give Jesus a Bye (until the next serious ballplay resumes) regarding the new staging/reinsertion of 'phase 2' regards the humans enlightenment, he did better than most (at least as well as Mohammed) without writing down a single word of his exploits.


edit on 24-3-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 09:13 PM
link   

Nephalim
reply to post by Akragon
 

without jesus who you be?

I would be his Imposter (nothing to gain or loose apparently).

edit on 24-3-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 09:26 PM
link   
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 

What exactly does "LORD" mean . . .
Philippians, where the verses are found, was written in Greek.
The Greek version of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, substitutes the word "Lord" where "YHWH" is in the Hebrew version.
YHWH is the angel who would manifest as the representation of God.
So it looks like (to me anyway) Jesus replaces that angel in the role of the carrier of the name of God.



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 09:40 PM
link   

jmdewey60
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing
 

What exactly does "LORD" mean . . .
Philippians, where the verses are found, was written in Greek.
The Greek version of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, substitutes the word "Lord" where "YHWH" is in the Hebrew version.
YHWH is the angel who would manifest as the representation of God.
So it looks like (to me anyway) Jesus replaces that angel in the role of the carrier of the name of God.

Michael as of 'Elohim status' is Jesus or of the same Sephiroph level of conscious existance? Im not understanding why we; (you and I) are any different than Michael or Jesus as proof heavy matter manifestiations of the exact same being (Gods will to experience= Intent=the human form). Why a hierarchy at all. I consider all people angels and representations of Gods intent. Jesus was 9 dimensional, so can we be as well; if told so (its possible) or had the werewithal to pursue what this entails.
edit on 24-3-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2014 @ 11:37 PM
link   
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 

Why a hierarchy at all. I consider all people angels and representations of Gods intent.
I think it might be hypothetical more than anything else.
It's a way to visualize things to get certain points across.
People make things all ceremony and structured as a way to awe the masses, so you can have things like kings.
That thing existing then becomes a language to describe things that really aren't exactly that way, but we don't have yet a commonly understandable way to describe otherwise.


edit on 25-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2014 @ 09:52 AM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 





TextThat phraseology comes from the Luke 19 version of the parable of the Ten Talents. The returning master says this to the unproductive servant after he tries to shift the blame onto the master for having a pattern of behavior that strikes fear in the minds of anyone subject to his authority
.
I believe your criticism is totally unfounded.
In Luke 19:22, it is Luke who is repeating the teaching of this parable of ten talents by Jesus and it is the land lord who is the judge and not Jesus. In other words this parable is not referencing Jesus as the judge but the parabolic land lord as the judge. I had no reference to this Luke 19 verse whatsoever as I said that you will be judged by Jesus (God) for every word that proceeds out of your mouth.

My thoughts came from my teachings of Matthew 4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." and Matthew 12:36 "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." The doctrine of Jesus does teach that there will be a individual judgment of each soul that has ever been created and that the tongue of man is the thought of his mind. This and other scriptures do verify my understanding of the doctrine of Jesus and I believe that expressing my understanding is as valid as your own critical interpretations.



posted on Mar, 25 2014 @ 10:10 AM
link   
reply to post by Seede
 

. . . your own critical interpretations.
When you say things that sound like Bible verses that are being quoted to support your argument, but they are just phrases that you made up, and are only inspired by tiny snippets of verses rummaging around in your head, you should add a little disclaimer like, *This is not an actual Bible verse, but me sounding very pretentious*.
edit on 25-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2014 @ 12:51 PM
link   
reply to post by Rex282
 





Text YET...that scripture clearly stated EVERYONE will"confess"It says NOTHING of cursing especially to the glory of satan or the pit of hell ....those are your extrapolations.

Yes you are right in that Phillipians 2:9-11 does not use the word cursing to the glory of Satan and if you re read my post I did not quote that as scripture. I wrote "Not all tongues will confess that Jesus is is the Christ to the glory of God. Some will curse God to the glory of Satan and will go down to the pit of hell." The word "curse" is expressed in the bible as the word "Blaspheme" as in --------
Rev 16:9 "And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory."

When a man refuses to glorify God then that man does glorify Satan. Even a disbeliever does glorify Satan in the sense that there are only two references involved in that thought. Now that being explained I expressed by theology as to my understanding in that not all people will glorify God and there will be some who will glorify Satan. I believe that is scriptural. That leaves the old thorn in your side of your understanding of hell.



TextThere is NOTHING in the scriptures that even say HELL at all.That is a a very poor agenda translation of the words hades,Gehenna,or Tartarus... Gehenna and Tartarus are called the pit and neither of them exist.Gehenna is no more and Tartarus is Greek myth.Please do not go into your poor extrapolation of Abraham's bosom .terrestrial,celestial etc etc....there is NOTHING to support it except A parable that is CLEARLY a parable.You are building a house on a mountain of sand.

We could take one subject at a time to discuss (in a logical manner) your and my theology but I see that you are not rational and are in a rage. The Creator God does not will anyone to hell. The spirit that goes to hell will enter hell by their own will. Not the Fathers will but their own will. I realize that inflames your soul but that is my theology as well as millions of other people who believe the doctrine of Jesus. You have never heard or read my writing in which I have ever judged any of creation.

Now I do realize how passionate you are in your wanting to believe that hell does not exist and I also realize how you came to that mindset. That is your theology and with theology comes discord. That is a fact. I have a different theological understanding than you do and that is also my prerogative. We have one major difference in our discussions. It seems to me that you never commit your sources for your theology but you lay back with criticism. Why don't you educate us so that we will learn the truth of your theology? Wouldn't that be better than name calling and nit picking? Give references in scriptures so that we dummies can be enlightened by your vast knowledge. Such things as the theological evidence that hell does not exist and how over 5,000 manuscripts are mistranslated and who are these experts who discredit the translators. Which bible do you use and how do you know that the book of Revelation is not true and many other such issues. That is what this forum is all about. Not a means to vent your anger. Have a good day Rex------------------



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join