If 'every' tongue shall confess "Jesus is Lord", will all be saved and does free-will exist?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


So despite your desire at the time of being a sperm and the desire to have one of your fellow sperms to win the race you wouldn't allow it ...Come on now you were curious even back then :>)

reply to post by the2ofusr1


Another excellent point. If faith is the key to salvation, is it any wonder that faith, that intangible magical ingredient which grants solidarity to whimsical notions, might just as easily lend a similar credence to other paths by the same principle? If its good enough for Jesus, why can't it work for the tooth fairy or the Sasquatch?

eXia7
reply to post by WordsAreAvenues

 

Sure, Don't we all? But we know it doesn't always work like that.

Right. And god doesn't always get worshipped.

It's hard to thank somebody I cannot see.

Really? You've put some severe limits on yourself.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

So those are our options, huh? Slave to god or slave to our own desires? Well, I don't like god, but I do like me. In fact, 'me' has done a lot more for me than this god bloke ever did. I was born when I would have chosen to die in the womb. I was conceived when I would have sooner allowed one of my fellow sperms to take my place. Given that my free will was not taken into consideration at that time, I make glad use of it now. But now using my free will is considered "being a slave to my desires". What a feat of mental gymnastics this is! I tell you now, I bow to no one, ever, because I would never ask that any bow to me.

Good thread, Arpgme.

edit on 23-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

You didn't have fellow sperm, remember that you were also ova, but you were never just sperm.

And did you have the power to tell your mom and dad not to "boink" the day you were conceived? You would have never been conceived if your mom and dad didn't get it on....

Therefore, you would be the product of their choice. Your dad boinked your mom. You didn't tell them how or when. You didn't tell them to do it in a car or in bed or on the kitchen table..whatever. You are the byproduct of your mom and dad's action, nothing more.

So your conception was not free will on your part, you didn't make yourself conceived. Your mom and dad did, they took away your free will. How did your "fellow sperm" get there in the first place?

ETA: And you had now power over your mom and dad's reproductive systems either, and neither over your grandparents and the many ancestors boinking to get to you. As you had no power over any of that, you had no free will in any of that.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Well we know there are people following after fairies and other things as well .It's not like we don't have a zillion options .My choice is a simple one .No need to make it complicated for myself ....

I take that as meaning that the power and glory will be so self evident that everyone will be moved on their own to do it. It won't be forced. You will just 'know' to do it and that it will feel right to do so.

reply to post by FlyersFan


A very very awe inspiring moment ....

reply to post by arpgme

This means that it was already predestined that Adam and Eve would follow Satan and eat The Forbidden Fruit, otherwise, sin would not exist and there would be no need for Jesus to come and save the world or to only predestine "some" whom he foreknown to conform to the image of Jesus.

1 Peter 1:20, where this slightly interpretive translation says "predestined", the Greek word just means "foreknown".
That sits counter to the second statement of "now being revealed".
First God knew him, and now we know him.

reply to post by WarminIndy

And did you have the power to tell your mom and dad not to "boink" the day you were conceived? You would have never been conceived if your mom and dad didn't get it on....

I would gladly have given up my place in line. I'd rather have nothing than have something and wish I didn't.

Therefore, you would be the product of their choice. Your dad boinked your mom. You didn't tell them how or when. You didn't tell them to do it in a car or in bed or on the kitchen table..whatever. You are the byproduct of your mom and dad's action, nothing more.

An unintentional consequence, as it were.

So your conception was not free will on your part, you didn't make yourself conceived. Your mom and dad did, they took away your free will. How did your "fellow sperm" get there in the first place?

Exactly my point. Be a slave to my desire once and then be free of slavery to anything at all, or be a slave to my desire over the course of a lifetime and be punished for it eternally? The other option being slavery to a god, but that's not an option at all for me. So my free will essentially did not exist at the one point I could have saved everyone the hassle. So it's not my fault if I take the opportunity now. God should have seen this moment even as I approached the egg in my mother's womb, and should have granted my desire. Then he could have replaced my little sperm with the next in line, and had a good, clean, upstanding Christian citizen who never questioned a single statement that included the words, "And God said..."

But no, that's too difficult. So now here I am. Whoops.

the2ofusr1
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Well we know there are people following after fairies and other things as well .It's not like we don't have a zillion options .My choice is a simple one .No need to make it complicated for myself ....

Surely a philosophy which could theoretically validate the tooth fairy - hell, might as well have some fun and use Shrek or Spiderman as an example! - as the literal god of all existence ought to be carefully evaluated before recruiting millions of humans worldwide? In fact, I could even use such a device to validate myself as your god. And because faith is such a prominent mechanism, you really couldn't argue with it. You can't test me, you can't doubt me, you can't question me, because I am your god and I am immune to the properties of the scientific method! Muahahahahah!

See how that works?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


But a God that could meet you where you are without the need to be given the accolades ,and can reveal Himself in time despite the encumbered PHD in science you may hold or think you need is worth considering .

the2ofusr1
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

But a God that could meet you where you are without the need to be given the accolades ,and can reveal Himself in time despite the encumbered PHD in science you may hold or think you need is worth considering .

No, it really isn't. Because frankly, I wouldn't trust someone like that with the ten bucks in my pocket, let alone my life.

reply to post by arpgme

Text This means that it was already predestined that Adam and Eve would follow Satan and eat The Forbidden Fruit, otherwise, sin would not exist and there would be no need for Jesus to come and say the world or to only predestine "some" whom he foreknown to conform to the image of Jesus.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might (meaning the Son) be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The way I was taught, and I could be wrong, is that we have already happened to God. We are the book on the shelf in the library of many such books. There is no future or past simply because with God there is only now. As you die you pass into the absence of time and into this mystery of now, With this understanding comes the understanding that as God has no time He has the ability to see you as you were, and are now and will be at your end. You have already happened but you still did all that the book says you did with your own will. Not that God made you choose what you did choose but only that He knew what you did choose.

God did not make Adam or Eve do as they did. By His foreknowledge He knew that they would do as they had done. But sin had already been established with the celestial creation and with the serpent. The spirit of disobedience was brought to this creation through the celestial angels who had sinned in the celestial heavens. As they were cast to this earth it appears that it was these angels who taught this spirit of disobedience to this terrestrial creation.

So yes you are correct (in my belief) in saying that by God's foreknowledge He predestined those who He foreknew would be saved to be as His Son Jesus. That image is that of the celestial substance of everlasting life. What that actually means is that at this time that Paul wrote this most all people believed that as you died your spirit was confined in Sheol which is in this earth. Not many were taught that the spirits of people would ever be released from this terrestrial Sheol and resurrect into a celestial entity which would live in heaven. This is the message that Paul was conveying to the people. By God's foreknowledge He prepared the new home of the justified and gave them a glorified new celestial body just as His Son now has the same celestial glorified body.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Well no fear for your 10 bucks because He doesn't need money .lol

the2ofusr1
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Well no fear for your 10 bucks because He doesn't need money .lol

I notice you neglected to defend his responsibility for my life...

arpgme

;;;;;;;;;;;..........
If 'every' tongue shall confess "Jesus is Lord", will all be saved and does free-will exist?

That is not "literal".It doesn't mean you need to have a "physical" tongue nor does it mean to "confess" in the literal sense...nor the bending of a knee..etc etc.Here is that scripture.

At the NAME of Jesus every knee will bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;And that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

First Paul is NOT talking about the "man" Jesus.He is talking about the "name".A name is the nature and character of the thing or person named.Yahoshua which means Yahweh delivers/saves.He goes onto say EVERYTHING in the physical realm is being delivered/saved.There are no exceptions.

Christ is not Jesus last name.It means anointing....which is to rub oil on.The Israelites and Jews rubbed oil on a King or Prophet to denote he had been "imbued" with the power of God.That was a symbol.The christ "IN you" is a reality. The "christ" is the power of God....life.!!Christ is what many call the "holy spirit".It is not a "being" holy means to be set apart or separated in unity ...spirit means life.It is the creator God "imbuing" everyone with "life"(spirit) that does not die....not the life that dies (physical..which is the spirit of man).

Every place Paul is talking about "christ" that's what he means...NOT Jesus christ.He isn't "shortening his name like someone calling you by your last name.

The scripture above is one of the most twisted religious scripture of all.It is used to CONDEMN others by purporting God will MAKE you bow down and worship him if you didn't when you were alive in the body.Then he will throw you into the Lake of Fire (hell) to be tortured forever!!.....absolute perversion and lies.

It is this scripture that makes THEM self righteous because they had the wisdom and good sense to "freely" believe,confess and worship God because they are GOOD and you are BAD!God loves them but HATES you because you willfully hated God.....absolute BS.

A few verses late it clearly states:

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.For it is God who works in you both to will and to do of his good purpose.

Work out your OWN salvation.Paul isn't saying... go do some good works to earn or prove you are worthy of being saved.He is saying mind your own effing business about others salvation because EVERYBODY is "being" saved.(and NO one is saved yet!).
How are they being saved....BY God who works IN you for HIS will and good purposes.Man does not "choose" to be saved (or not ).It is the creator God that is doing it ALL.

So yes... you do not have a will free of cause.You are not the cause that started the fire nor are the cause for it to continue to burn.The creator God the Father is doing it ALL.The creator God created the biology of how life grows from a seed.Everyone came from a seed and are in effect still going through the same process of growth(salvation) but of LIFE.... NONE of which they are causing.

You make a multitude of choices in life yet NONE of your choices are free of a cause because non of them originated from only YOU!It is futile to think otherwise.Your choices are all made in accordance to your nature and character(and you alone are accountable for them) however none of them are free of a multitude of causes and effects that did not originate from you.

When that is known you will "know" you are NOT the originator of ANY of your life.You will know it is the creator God the Father delivering you as in a "birth" from the physical life which is actually a series of "deaths".The physical realm is in the valley of the "shadows" of death.Everyday of life is one day closer to physical death(thanks Roger Waters for that line in "Time").

This is ALL a good thing.That's why it's called The GOOD news not the bad news that if you don't believe a 'religious doctrine(along with many more) you are going to HELL!!!..btw God loves you!!!!...that's pure BS.

Those that revel in your ultimate death and annihilation in "their" hell have not a clue what that scripture means.It is a brow beater they say with a crooked Grinch smile .As long as you "believe" like they do..you will be okay...for now...until you step out of line..then when you die and "their" God will FORCE you to confess on bended knee a religious doctrine....then torture you forever!.

There are a MULTITUDE of scriptures that clearly state that ALL of mankind(and physical creation ) is being saved BY Yahoshua....God delivers.I have posted them multiple times.The fact is they don't have to be believed to be true or take effect.They are the testimony of what is true and testify against those that believe otherwise ...that which is called the doctrines of demons..that YOU are going to HELL forever and ever (that's twice as long as forever) because YOU didn't believe what I DO you effin heathen!!!

Mans religious nature takes on all sorts of deviant forms.The most deviant is the true believer of "their" Belief System.They want to bend you over backwards and ram it down you until you believe as the do.Confess their confession of "faith" and bend to their religion.(thank you Ian Anderson for that line in "My God").

The fact is the creator God the "Father" "conceived EVERYTHING and will deliver EVERYTHING.The 1st big hurdle for mankind is ..physical death.THAT is the GOOD news...Yahoshua.

reply to post by Rex282

Text That is not "literal".It doesn't mean you need to have a "physical" tongue nor does it mean to "confess" in the literal sense...nor the bending of a knee..etc etc.Here is that scripture.

There are many references in the bible confirming the following verses in the 1611 KJV bible -

Phillipians 2:9-11 - (9)Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him,(meaning Jesus) and given him a name which is above every name: (10)That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (11)And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Not all tongues will confess that Jesus is is the Christ to the glory of God. Some will curse God to the glory of Satan and will go down to the pit of hell.

Romans 14:12,13 - (12)So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (13)Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

TextChrist is not Jesus last name.It means anointing....which is to rub oil on.The Israelites and Jews rubbed oil on a King or Prophet to denote he had been "imbued" with the power of God.That was a symbol.The christ "IN you" is a reality. The "christ" is the power of God....life.!!Christ is what many call the "holy spirit".It is not a "being" holy means to be set apart or separated in unity ...spirit means life.It is the creator God "imbuing" everyone with "life"(spirit) that does not die....not the life that dies (physical..which is the spirit of man).

The scriptures above define Christ as an entity (Begotten Son of God) who is the image of the Spirit God who was and is The Word of God. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and the only Christ of God's creation.

John 1:1-3 - (1)In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2)The same was in the beginning with God. (3)All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

TextThe scripture above is one of the most twisted religious scripture of all.It is used to CONDEMN others by purporting God will MAKE you bow down and worship him if you didn't when you were alive in the body.Then he will throw you into the Lake of Fire (hell) to be tortured forever!!.....absolute perversion and lies.

The scriptures do not condemn any man or woman. Those who kick against the pricks stub their own toes. God will not make you bow down to Him; you will bow in your own will and shame at your judgment. The apostles judge no one. We judge ourselves through our own misunderstandings and willful sins.

John 1:17 - For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.