If 'every' tongue shall confess "Jesus is Lord", will all be saved and does free-will exist?

The Bible says that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and that every knee of Heaven, Earth, and Below shall bow down at the name of Jesus to glorify God:

Philippians 2:6-12
"...at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

This also includes Satan and The Fallen Angels since "every" includes all and it is saying that even "The Above" and "The Below" will bow at his name to glorify God.

The only thing is, the bible says that whoever confesses with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and acknowledges that he has risen from the dead will be saved:

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 John 4:15
If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.

and it says no one has the power to even say this except by The Holy Spirit, so The Holy Spirit will go into Satan and force him to confess:

1 Corinthians 12:3
no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

even more interesting... the bible says that God already chose Jesus Christ and predestined certain people to be conformed to the image of His Son:

Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

1 Peter 1:20
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This means that it was already predestined that Adam and Eve would follow Satan and eat The Forbidden Fruit, otherwise, sin would not exist and there would be no need for Jesus to come and say the world or to only predestine "some" whom he foreknown to conform to the image of Jesus.

arpgme
The Bible says that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and that every knee of Heaven, Earth, and Below shall bow down at the name of Jesus to glorify God:

Philippians 2:6-12
"...at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

This also includes Satan and The Fallen Angels since "every" includes all and it is saying that even "The Above" and "The Below" will bow at his name to glorify God.

The only thing is, the bible says that whoever confesses with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and acknowledges that he has risen from the dead will be saved:

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 John 4:15
If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.

and it says no one has the power to even say this except by The Holy Spirit, so The Holy Spirit will go into Satan and force him to confess:

1 Corinthians 12:3
no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

even more interesting... the bible says that God already chose Jesus Christ and predestined certain people to be conformed to the image of His Son:

Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

1 Peter 1:20
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This means that it was already predestined that Adam and Eve would follow Satan and eat The Forbidden Fruit, otherwise, sin would not exist and there would be no need for Jesus to come and say the world or to only predestine "some" whom he foreknown to conform to the image of Jesus.

edit on 23-3-2014 by arpgme because: had to fix the title

It means that eventually all will bow to the Lordship of Christ even if they don't want to agree with Him. The writer was using a well-known and well-understood image from that times. Everyone bowed or prostrated to the king or prince, it was what they did. That doesn't mean they like the king or prince.

Even political prisoners bowed to the king or prince of other kingdoms. It was what you did. Doesn't mean you liked it or not, it just means that's what you did.

Think of the world the writer was living in before passing judgments, understand his milieu. It's all about cultural context when it was written.

Predestination and foreknowledge needs to be separated and understood .You are trying to blend the two together to make one statement out of the two .....peace

reply to post by WarminIndy


I understand that. People was forced to bow the to kings whether they liked them or not.

My point is, if people are forced to bow down to Jesus doesn't that show a lack of free-will? And if you can only say "Jesus is Lord" by the power of The Holy Spirit, and who ever says this with their mouth shall be saved, then what is the conclusion?

reply to post by the2ofusr1

the2ofusr1
Predestination and foreknowledge needs to be separated and understood .You are trying to blend the two together to make one statement out of the two .....peace

No I'm not. The bible says that those God foreknew he also predestined to conform to the image of Jesus. I understand that they are different things, but it is the bible that says he predestined certain people by his foreknowledge.

reply to post by arpgme


None of the encounters Jesus had with the demons bowed to Him but they knew who He was and obeyed Him .There may be a time when there is a different context when all will make the confession but at this time we are in a time of grace .Once grace is suspended or changed the context will change as well .

ETA ...yes foreknowledge that they were the ones that accepted the free gift ..He also for-knew who would not .

the2ofusr1
reply to post by arpgme

 

None of the encounters Jesus had with the demons bowed to Him but they knew who He was and obeyed Him .There may be a time when there is a different context when all will make the confession but at this time we are in a time of grace .Once grace is suspended or changed the context will change as well .

ETA ...yes foreknowledge that they were the ones that accepted the free gift ..He also for-knew who would not .

edit on 23-3-2014 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)

Actually yes, the demons in the man in the Gadarenes tombs.

They not only bowed to Jesus, they pleaded not to be sent to hell. Then they begged to be sent into the herd of swine. "Thou Son of the Most High, hast thou come to judge us before the time?"

Yes, they bowed.

reply to post by the2ofusr1


Yes, this is not now but in the future. This same prophecy also appears in The Book of Revelation. So it would seem like God is letting people do what they want for now but in the end The Holy Spirit forces them to confess and bow saying "Jesus is Lord".

There was also no point of Satan rebelling then, if this is the case.

Romans 11:32
For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.

arpgme
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

I understand that. People was forced to bow the to kings whether they liked them or not.

My point is, if people are forced to bow down to Jesus doesn't that show a lack of free-will? And if you can only say "Jesus is Lord" by the power of The Holy Spirit, and who ever says this with their mouth shall be saved, then what is the conclusion?

reply to post by the2ofusr1

 

the2ofusr1
Predestination and foreknowledge needs to be separated and understood .You are trying to blend the two together to make one statement out of the two .....peace

No I'm not. The bible says that those God foreknew he also predestined to conform to the image of Jesus. I understand that they are different things, but it is the bible that says he predestined certain people by his foreknowledge.

edit on 23-3-2014 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

Well, you could always bow down willingly. Free will also means willingly. Yes, you may freely and willingly do so. Nothing is stopping you from bowing, except your own desire not to. So you are a slave to your desire, no free will to your desire.

arpgme
reply to post by the2ofusr1

 

Yes, this is not now but in the future. This same prophecy also appears in The Book of Revelation. So it would seem like God is letting people do what they want for now but in the end The Holy Spirit forces them to confess and bow saying "Jesus is Lord".

There was also no point of Satan rebelling then, if this is the case.

Romans 11:32
For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.

edit on 23-3-2014 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

Satan was cursed for rebelling, but the Bible doesn't indicate that it was rebellion on Adam and Eve's part, because they didn't know better before. Since Adam and Eve and people DO know better now, then where do you think people belong if they walk in continuous rebellion, knowing better?

But here's the thing, you are given Satan way too much authority and power. Man's rebellion is man rebelling because man believes man knows so much and that man is in control, when man can't even control his own lusts and passions.

My question is, why do all these gods and jesuses expect and want people to bow at their feet? Why can't they just do everybody a solid and stop demanding worship to help people?

reply to post by WarminIndy


Thanks for that ...It is probably worth a study into the word used and see if there may be a slightly different meaning ..You may be 100% correct though ....peace

reply to post by WarminIndy

WarminIndy
Well, you could always bow down willingly. Free will also means willingly. Yes, you may freely and willingly do so. Nothing is stopping you from bowing, except your own desire not to. So you are a slave to your desire, no free will to your desire.

So God is going to force everyone to change their beliefs and desires in order to bow down to him "willingly" ?

the fact that 'force' is happening at all, shows that there is a lack of free-will. If God has it predestined that "every knee shall bow" then that is the taking away of free-will.

eXia7
My question is, why do all these gods and jesuses expect and want people to bow at their feet? Why can't they just do everybody a solid and stop demanding worship to help people?

When you do something nice for someone don't you want a thank you? It's the same simple concept to your oversimplified question.

arpgme
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

WarminIndy
Well, you could always bow down willingly. Free will also means willingly. Yes, you may freely and willingly do so. Nothing is stopping you from bowing, except your own desire not to. So you are a slave to your desire, no free will to your desire.

So God is going to force everyone to change their beliefs and desires in order to bow down to him "willingly" ?

the fact that 'force' is happening at all, shows that there is a lack of free-will. If God has it predestined that "every knee shall bow" then that is the taking away of free-will.

edit on 23-3-2014 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

People will see God in all his glory and have no reason to believe a lie anymore. How is that force and how does this simple concept not make sense?

reply to post by WarminIndy


That may be part of the new nature with the new spiritual birth .Romans 7 the do do do chapter might be the place to understand this ...

reply to post by WarminIndy


So those are our options, huh? Slave to god or slave to our own desires? Well, I don't like god, but I do like me. In fact, 'me' has done a lot more for me than this god bloke ever did. I was born when I would have chosen to die in the womb. I was conceived when I would have sooner allowed one of my fellow sperms to take my place. Given that my free will was not taken into consideration at that time, I make glad use of it now. But now using my free will is considered "being a slave to my desires". What a feat of mental gymnastics this is! I tell you now, I bow to no one, ever, because I would never ask that any bow to me.

Good thread, Arpgme.

reply to post by WordsAreAvenues


Sure, Don't we all? But we know it doesn't always work like that.

It's hard to thank somebody I cannot see.

eXia7
My question is, why do all these gods and jesuses expect and want people to bow at their feet? Why can't they just do everybody a solid and stop demanding worship to help people?

The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike.

reply to post by arpgme


Pauls experience where he was privilege to the risen Christ caused him to not only believe but to know . I have heard it said that if man kind were to be in heaven for one moment they would repent completely .Thomas is a good example in the way the Lord mentions the blessings that would be greater for those who didn't see those things ..

arpgme
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

WarminIndy
Well, you could always bow down willingly. Free will also means willingly. Yes, you may freely and willingly do so. Nothing is stopping you from bowing, except your own desire not to. So you are a slave to your desire, no free will to your desire.

So God is going to force everyone to change their beliefs and desires in order to bow down to him "willingly" ?

the fact that 'force' is happening at all, shows that there is a lack of free-will. If God has it predestined that "every knee shall bow" then that is the taking away of free-will.

edit on 23-3-2014 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

First of all, that is assuming that God is only one tradition and found in only one belief.

Do you think that God exists only for the Judeo/Christians and no one else? Judeo/Christian is a tradition.

You haven't realized yet that God is bigger than the Judeo/Christian definition.