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To the 1% of Christians going to Heaven:

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posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 03:57 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Ahha! Finally, I see. Its the degree talking. This whole time, I just couldnt figure you out. Who am I to argue with an honorary gardian of the Worldy Wisdom of Psychology?

1 Cor 3:19-21

19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 21 Therefore let no man glory in men.




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:05 PM
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Hoyden
not true.

Yes true. And it's INSANE to tell people they aren't Christians unless they believe in something that is proven not to have happened. Noahs Ark .. DID NOT HAPPEN.

If Noahs Ark happened .. then this 80,000 year old tree colony wouldn't have survived.
PANDO Tree Colony

Pando (Latin for "I spread"), also known as The Trembling Giant,[1][2] is a clonal colony of a single male quaking aspen (Populus tremuloides) determined to be a single living organism by identical genetic markers[3] and one massive underground root system. The plant is estimated to weigh collectively 6,000,000 kg (6,600 short tons),[4] making it the heaviest known organism.[5] The root system of Pando, at an estimated 80,000 years old, is among the oldest known living organisms.[6][7]
Pando is located 1 mile southwest of Fish Lake on Utah route 25.[8] in the Fremont River Ranger District of the Fishlake National Forest, at the western edge of the Colorado Plateau in South-central Utah, at N 38.525 W 111.75.


Science Daily
At this time there are 6.5 million land animal species on the planet. There were even more back in what was supposedly Noahs time. Two of each animal would mean at least 13 million animals on that boat. NOT A CHANCE!! Couldn't happen.

Light doesnt penetrate the ocean more than about 500 ft. if the earth were submerged under 29,000 ft. in order to cover mt. everest, no marine plant life would have survived and the oceans would be dead. Obviously that didn't happen.

Could Noahs' Ark Have Actually Happened?

If the 2350 date were correct, then human civilization would’ve had to undergo an extreme population explosion in the millenium following the flood. According to Biblical sources, there would have been millions of Jews leaving Egypt, so assuming a global population of 40 million around that time (~1350 BC), and comparing that to global population estimates later in history (an estimated 200+ million by 0 AD), would require an incredibly high population growth between 2350 BC and 1350 BC (5,000,000 fold increase in 1,000 years), and a much lower population growth after 1350 BC – usually less than 5 fold population growth within any 1,000 year period between 1350 BC and 1800 AD.

(3) The distribution of animals is not what we would expect if there were a global flood killing all life. If all life was limited to the top of a mountain in the Middle East in 2350 B.C., then how to explain the distribution of animals across the world? All the kangaroos on the Ark went to Australia? How did the animals get to the Americas? If they crossed via an ice-bridge in the Bering Strait, then the Americas should be limited to animals that are warm blooded and capable of traveling hundreds of miles across snow. This means no reptiles, no spiders, etc. Yet, the Amazon contains a wide variety of animal biodiversity. And why didn’t American desert animals stay behind in the deserts of the Old World? (See related post: “Creationism versus Animal Biodiversity”)

(4) Genetic evidence shows that human beings are far to genetically diverse to be descended from a single family in 2350 B.C. If Noah’s Ark were true, then all men alive today would’ve gotten their Y-chromosomes from Noah, and all human mitochondrial DNA would come from Noah’s wife and the three daughter-in-laws. Studies of the human Y-Chromosome show that you’d need far more than 4,300 years to accumulate that many mutations. Human beings could not be descended from a single male in 2350 B.C. What the studies show, instead, is that, in order to explain the number of mutations in the human Y-Chromosome, you have to allow for roughly 60,000-90,000 years. Similarly, human mitochondrial DNA requires roughly 160,000 years to accumulate that many mutations — showing that Eve could not have lived 6,000 years ago as the Bible says.


AND MORE INFORMATION AT THAT SITE.

Adam and his Eves - A lesson on DNA and population distribution for you

Creationism vs Biodiversity

Additionally, once the animals left the Ark, there are a lot of nearby regions they could inhabit, but didn’t. For example, all varieties of rattlesnakes are found in the Americas (33 species, and numerous subspecies). There are none in the Old World – despite the fact that there are regions similar to the American deserts – the Sahara, the Middle East, the Gobi Desert, etc. Llamas fit this same pattern – found in the New World, but not in the Old World. The Caucus (where the Ark supposedly landed) and Himalaya mountains have different species than the Rocky Mountains and Andes. Why didn’t some of the Rocky Mountain species stick around in the Caucus Mountains – they were already there the minute they stepped off the Ark. Similarly, the species in the South American tropics aren’t found in Old World tropics (Southeast Asia and Africa), and vice-versa. For example, New World cats and monkeys are different species than Old World cats and monkeys. Theoretically, with the movement of creatures caused by the global flood, one could find the same species living in distant places. Somehow, we don’t.


National Geographic - Human DNA Journey
For Noahs Ark to have happened exactly as the bible claims, we'd expect the highest levels of genetic diversity to be in the Middle East. But the fact is that the highest levels of human genetic diversity occur in Africa where humanity evolved.

Noahs Ark Doesn't Float

Miles of coral reef, hundreds of feet thick, still survive intact at the Eniwetok atoll in the Pacific Ocean. The violent flood would have certainly destroyed these formations, yet the rate of deposit tells us that the reefs have survived for over 100,000 undisturbed years. Similarly, the floodwaters, not to mention the other factors leading to a boiling sea, would have obviously melted the polar ice caps. However, ice layers in Greenland and Antarctica date back at least 40,000 years.

Impact craters from pre-historical asteroid strikes still exist even though the tumultuous floodwaters would have completely eroded them. If these craters were formed concurrently with the flood, as it has been irresponsibly suggested, the magnificent heat from the massive impacts would have immediately boiled large quantities of the ocean, as if it wasn’t hot enough already. Like the asteroid craters, global mountain ranges would exhibit uniform erosion as a result of a global flood. Unsurprisingly, we witness just the opposite in neighboring pairs of greatly contrasting examples, such as the Rockies and Appalachians.

Even if we erroneously assume there to be enough water under the earth’s surface in order to satisfy the required flood levels, the size of the openings necessary to permit passage for a sufficient amount of water would be large enough to destroy the cohesive properties of the earth’s crust. However, the outer layer is firmly intact, and there’s no evidence indicating that it ever collapsed. All this hypothetical escaping water would have greatly eroded the sides of the deep ocean fissures as well, but no such observable evidence exists for this phenomenon either.

We can also observe algae deposits within the fossil layers, a phenomenon that could not have formed during the flood because they require sunlight to thrive. It’s quite reasonable to assume that the clouds would have thoroughly obstructed the sunlight during such a tremendous rain indicative of the flood. Setting aside this and all other known fossil inconsistencies with the Bible, archaeologists have found human footprints within the upper layers. Moving water simply could not have deposited these markings. As I alluded to earlier, this seemingly endless list of geological problems was completely unforeseeable to the primitive authors, thus the Bible offers no justifications or explanations for our discoveries.


MORE INFORMATiON AT THE SITE.

Besides the DNA and fossils ... the atmosphere of Earth doesn't carry enough water to 'cover the Earth past the highest mountains'. The water from the Noahs Ark flood wouldn't have evaporated into space ... and it's not underground .. so where did it supposedly go?



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

That's a load of tripe. Deflection. The fact is personality is experience, DNA and free will.
You've been schooled. Just face it. You were wrong.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:07 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:09 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by Hoyden
 


I see your point, but I disagree.

Faith in Christ is all that is needed for salvation. This is the seed of faith that produces the works of compassion that you spoke of. If the person doesnt have any good works to show for his/her faith, then he/she never truely believed in Jesus sacrifice in the first place.

The Knowledge of Salvation does not save, it only gives you something to believe. When you believe in it, then you are saved.

The confirmation of your faith will be manifested in your works as a born again creature.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


Address the fact that Noahs Ark has been proven not to have happened.
Address the fact that Adam and Eve have been proven not to have happened.
Address the fact that Exodus has been proven not have happened as the OT claims.

Explain how people with a brain should be required to believe literally in nonsense in order to be a real christian.

Good luck with that.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by BuzzyWigs
 


I will admit it was, but it was direct and to the point.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

. . . salvation by faith in an ultimate atoning sacrifice. The biblical Jewish faith was fulfilled by Jesus.
. . . .
Jesus taught that faith in His work (atonement on the cross) was the way to Eternal Life.
Atonement in the Old Testament was the cleaning of the temple, and most importantly, the mercy seat of the ark in the most holy place.

The expiation of sins was through whole burnt offerings.

So there is no OT fulfillment of the doing away of a person's sins in the acts of Jesus.
What he did do was create or inaugurate a new covenant, where the blood purifies the new mercy seat, which is the person of Jesus himself, in a metaphorical way.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:21 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 





Jesus fulfilled the OT. If the OT is a lie, then Jesus is a lie.


Now you're getting it! It's all a lie!

There was no talking snake, magical trees, man living a fish's belly, no virgin birth, no blood sacrifice that washed away "mistakes" and no dead men up and about, walking around, talking and eating.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Hoyden
 


I see your point, but I disagree.

Faith in Christ is all that is needed for salvation. This is the seed of faith that produces the works of compassion that you spoke of. If the person doesnt have any good works to show for his/her faith, then he/she never truely believed in Jesus sacrifice in the first place.

The Knowledge of Salvation does not save, it only gives you something to believe. When you believe in it, then you are saved.

The confirmation of your faith will be manifested in your works as a born again creature.


Then you disagree with Jesus Christ Himself

you have certainly a right to do so.


Faith is not even close to be sufficient for salvation.

Salvation is individual, redemption was universal - for everybody, even non-believers.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:27 PM
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Hoyden

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Hoyden
 


I see your point, but I disagree.

Faith in Christ is all that is needed for salvation. This is the seed of faith that produces the works of compassion that you spoke of. If the person doesnt have any good works to show for his/her faith, then he/she never truely believed in Jesus sacrifice in the first place.

The Knowledge of Salvation does not save, it only gives you something to believe. When you believe in it, then you are saved.

The confirmation of your faith will be manifested in your works as a born again creature.


Then you disagree with Jesus Christ Himself

you have certainly a right to do so.


Faith is not even close to be sufficient for salvation.

Salvation is individual, redemption was universal - for everybody, even non-believers.


We already covered that on the last page... He prefers Paul to Jesus...

Tis a shame, but that is his choice




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:29 PM
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FlyersFan
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


Address the fact that Noahs Ark has been proven not to have happened.
Address the fact that Adam and Eve have been proven not to have happened.
Address the fact that Exodus has been proven not have happened as the OT claims.
Explain how people with a brain should be required to believe literally in nonsense in order to be a real christian.

Good luck with that.

not true.

Eve actually has been proven to be the sole pra-mother of every human on this planet.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:29 PM
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Akragon

Hoyden

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Hoyden
 


I see your point, but I disagree.

Faith in Christ is all that is needed for salvation. This is the seed of faith that produces the works of compassion that you spoke of. If the person doesnt have any good works to show for his/her faith, then he/she never truely believed in Jesus sacrifice in the first place.

The Knowledge of Salvation does not save, it only gives you something to believe. When you believe in it, then you are saved.

The confirmation of your faith will be manifested in your works as a born again creature.


Then you disagree with Jesus Christ Himself

you have certainly a right to do so.


Faith is not even close to be sufficient for salvation.

Salvation is individual, redemption was universal - for everybody, even non-believers.


We already covered that on the last page... He prefers Paul to Jesus...

Tis a shame, but that is his choice



No, Paul has absolutely nothing to do with this.

He prefers Luther to Jesus.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:32 PM
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Hoyden
not true.

Yes true.

Eve actually has been proven to be the sole pra-mother of every human on this planet.

I gave the info for Noahs Ark. And the DNA evidence proves that Eve did not live 6,000 years ago in the middle east. The first common female ancestor humans have is from 160,000 BC and she'd be in Africa.

There was no Noahs Ark. No world wide flood in 2300 BC.
There was no Adam and Eve with a talking snake in a garden in the middle east.

And no Christian needs to literally buy into those myths and folklores in order to be a Christian.
It's not necessary. It's not even smart.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:34 PM
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Hoyden

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Hoyden
 


I see your point, but I disagree.

Faith in Christ is all that is needed for salvation. This is the seed of faith that produces the works of compassion that you spoke of. If the person doesnt have any good works to show for his/her faith, then he/she never truely believed in Jesus sacrifice in the first place.

The Knowledge of Salvation does not save, it only gives you something to believe. When you believe in it, then you are saved.

The confirmation of your faith will be manifested in your works as a born again creature.


Then you disagree with Jesus Christ Himself

you have certainly a right to do so.


Faith is not even close to be sufficient for salvation.

Salvation is individual, redemption was universal - for everybody, even non-believers.


If that was the case, then both of the thieves crucified alongside Christ would have gone with Him. Why did only one get to go with Christ to Paradise?



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I didnt deflect. I provided scriptural evidence that your degree in Psychology has nothing to do with the subject of sin. As a believer in Christ, I side with scripture on the side of free will and "psychology". And I find it entertaining how its ok for you to throw around stereotypes like "fundi's", and call me "indoctrinated", but its not cool for me to show you what the bible has to say about the worldly wisdom of man.

Last time I checked, all that psychology has done for us is justify the over medication of my generation to the point that kids cant even function without a steady flow of SSRI's amphetamines in their veins



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 





I gave the info for Noahs Ark. And the DNA evidence proves that Eve did not live 6,000 years ago in the middle east. The first common female ancestor humans have is from 160,000 BC and she'd be in Africa.


Right! Which fits in nicely with our present theories of human evolution. Some perfect man (Adam) didn't just show up one day, and the first perfect women (Eve) sprang from his rib. Just didn't happen!








edit on 23-3-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



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