To the 1% of Christians going to Heaven:

BELIEVERpriest
We are ALL sinners even little kids.

Try to let it sink through all that indoctrination ... no ability to reason means no ability to sin.
Children below the age of reason are incapable of sin on their souls.

As for the rest of your post ... again ... try to unplug from the fundamentalist indoctrination and turn to God (to use your quote). 73 books in the Bible: 46 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament. You fundis throw out those books that make you uncomfortable and have 66 books in the bible. Either way ... it's not one big book. It's dozens of books put together under one cover .. and each has it's own story and purpose.

Some of those books have been DISPROVEN. To continue to believe in the literal truth of something that is absolutely false is insanity. It's ignorance. And for a Christian it's unnecessary. Jesus can stand on His own. The fact that Noahs Ark did not happen does not effect Jesus mission on Earth in the least.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

Even as a child, sins is voluntary.

What??? Oh Dear God. So it's a voluntary sin when a newborn cries because he's hungry? When an 18mo takes back the toy some other 18mo grabbed while he wasn't looking?
Apparently you are not a parent, nor have you any experience with nurturing littles of any species....
For crying out loud.

I'm sorry that you are so terrified of....whatever it is that you're terrified of. It must hurt. Let the littles grow in their own time and way - don't tell them they are worthless sinners. Please.

edit on 3/23/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

First of all, the things you stated arent sins. Im talking about fighting, vengence, fits of anger, rejection of legitemate authority. These are willfull acts of sin. Crying is not sin. Taking something you did not know was private property is not sin.

Im talking about willfull malice, and yes they are sins that have potential to develop into evil with age.

You can call them "mistakes" if you want, but if a person continues to willfully make the "mistake" of stealing, violence, murder, then its evil.

And I have no fear of sin, life, nor death. That is a sin that you have falsely accused me of.

And this, ladies and gentleman, is why religion is no longer an authority in matters of government and education. Consider yourselves blessed...giggity.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

rejection of legitemate authority.

Alright... Jesus is legit authority

And He said Children are innocent... Thus you reject his authority

Tisk tisk...

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

You can call them "mistakes" if you want, but if a person continues to willfully make the "mistake" of stealing, violence, murder, then its evil.

I'm sorry, this confuses me. How can a preschooler be guilty of those things?

Among older children (pubescent/teenaged) then yes, they may willfully take those actions. My experience working with youngsters who have been segregated for their unsocialized behaviors has shown me that those kids are products of their home-life/upbringing, and in some cases, genetics/organic brain disorders.

And I have no fear of sin, life, nor death. That is a sin that you have falsely accused me of.

What?

How did I accuse you of a sin????

reply to post by FlyersFan


I'll say it again, sin is anything that falls short of God's standards Romans 3:23. It is a willfull act, even if you didnt know it was wrong. Adultery is wrong, even if you grow up not knowing it is. Sin is in our nature, and it manifests in our decisions.

When a child is old enough to start making decisions, it has the potential to sin. However, the child is not held accountable until it is capable of expressing faith towards a creator. God consciousness comes at a later age.

My definition of sin comes from the book of Romans, not some dictionary.

And, you still havent "proven" anything. At least I can cite scripture to back up my theology. You have yet to do that.

Just throw around a few more stereotypes, maybe that will hide your ignorance.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


I know you're ignoring me but... Don't mind if I do...

Mark 10
13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.

14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Children do not judge anything... they see and accept... And have no way of knowing sin...

They are taught to sin... by those that sin

Be as a child

you're rejecting Jesus... and making the words of Paul your saving grace

Akragon
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

IF you have Faith In Jesus then you do what he told us to do... that is works of kindness and generosity..

Without which your faith is nothing...

Faith alone Can Not be "the way"

agreed. Faith is the start.It is necessary but not sufficient.

on the other hand I tend to believe that those who were not exposed to Christian faith and did not have any possibility to obtain faith in Him but still believe in God and perform works of kindness and generosity ( basically following the 2 great commandments of love) - it ia difficult for me to consider those souls to be condemned...

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


I reject the notion that our mentality is purely a product of our environment. It is a product of our mental attitudes. Even an infant has a mental attitude however undeveloped it may be.

You stated that I was afraid of something. Im sure something scares me, as Im sure something scares you too. But, the implication you made was that I held some form of insecurity regarding the well being of my soul. Fear is a lack of faith, and therefore a sin. By doing so you passed judgement on me. As if were some object of pitty.

If you wish to insult me, be forthright about it, but I neither appreciate pitty nor passive aggressive judgement of character.

I shared the gospel with you, the good news that Eternal Life is as easy as faith in Christ. Instead of expressing gratitude, you become deffencive and attack my character with the false accusation of fear.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

I reject the notion that our mentality is purely a product of our environment. It is a product of our mental attitudes. Even an infant has a mental attitude however undeveloped it may be.

I've worked with newborns as well - and yes, each has a personality. Distinctly different. Some are sensitive to touch/sound/light, others are not. Some squawl when pierced with a needle, others do not.

I believe it is - and I'm sorry if you keel over when I say this - reincarnation/soul age showing.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Fear is a lack of faith, and therefore a sin.

And yet "fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom" according to the OT...

And the contradictions fly off the page...

Sigh

reply to post by Akragon


You are right, I am ignoring you, and for one simple reason. You hold the gospels to be truth, while rejecting the rest of the NT, and the OT in its entirety. By doing so, it is much easier to take the words of Jesus out of context, and nearly impossible to make the case that Jesus fulfilled the OT.

Therefore, arguing with you would be like talking to the wall.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


While I dont believe in reincarnation, I will entertain the idea for the moment. If a newborn had a matured soul in its skull, wouldnt that make it all the more capable of willfull sin?

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Akragon

 

You are right, I am ignoring you, and for one simple reason. You hold the gospels to be truth, while rejecting the rest of the NT, and the OT in its entirety. By doing so, it is much easier to take the words of Jesus out of context, and nearly impossible to make the case that Jesus fulfilled the OT.

Therefore, arguing with you would be like talking to the wall.

I know im right... you're not alone either...

There are many Christians on our forum that are afraid to debate me because I punch holes in their theology... by sticking to the ONE man who actually knows God

And Jesus didn't fulfill all of the OT prophecy... that is why the Jews reject him to this day

The Jewish messiah was supposed to bring peace to earth... Jesus did not, and there are many things foretold about the messiah that Jesus did not fulfill...

Its all good though... Stick to your saviour Paulus Christ

I will stick to mine...

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

What I said for JmDewey goes for you too. The both of you consistently reject quoted scripture. When the bible states "these are not cleverly devised fairy tales", you stand up and say the bible is a mythological medley. By doing so, you entirely miss the big picture, the unified message...that Jesus died for our sins as the spotless Lamb of God, and Eternal Life is in Him ONLY. That means no works, no profession of faith, and no amount of denying the validity of scripture will change the fact that salvation is by faith alone in Christ. If you add to that, you reject the Knowledge of Salvation.

Jesus fulfilled the OT. If the OT is a lie, then Jesus is a lie.

When Christians quote the document you claim to derive truth from, you stick your fingers in your ears and embrace ignorance rather than deny it.

Hm.

Your stance contradicts directly with what Jesus Christ HIMSELF said is needed for salvation:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Fear is a lack of faith, and therefore a sin. By doing so you passed judgement on me. As if were some object of pitty.

But
isn't that what you were/are doing to those members you disagree with?
Like they're objects of pity?

come on man, everyone feels fear.

If you wish to insult me, be forthright about it, but I neither appreciate pitty nor passive aggressive judgement of character.

I thought I was being very forthright. And I'm asking you questions. If they make you uncomfortable, well, that's not my fault.
I will say that what I perceive in this thread of your posts is that you making judgements of others' characters, including little kids...babies.

Look, I don't subscribe to the original sin doctrine. I think that you are trapped and suffering for what you say you believe.
I see that you are not averse to judging people, even babies, as sinners, and hopelessly damned if they don't do things the way you think they should.

I, also, am an opinionated person. I get it. And my opinion is that you are missing the mark. That's all.
My opinion. I'm not wishing to insult you. I don't pity you, but your character is being questioned - and your motives here.

I expect they are entirely benevolent, and that you are only trying to help.
But, for a person who has rejected the notion of Old Testament Original Sin, it seems a bit out there.

Thanks for your concern, all the same. And again, I'm sorry if you found my posts offensive.

BELIEVERpriest
I reject the notion that our mentality is purely a product of our environment. It is a product of our mental attitudes. Even an infant has a mental attitude however undeveloped it may be.

As a person with a degree in psychology I've gotta say .. you are off base.
Mentality (personality and life choices) is environment and dna and freewill. All three.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

. . . a mythological medley. By doing so, you entirely miss the big picture, the unified message...that Jesus died for our sins as the spotless Lamb of God, and Eternal Life is in Him ONLY.

Speaking of medley, this phrase, "Jesus died for our sins as the spotless Lamb of God", is a sort of mash-up from parts of four verses.

Romans 8:34
. . . Jesus died for us . . .
1 Corinthians 15:3
. . . Christ died for our sins . . .
1 Peter 1:19
. . . like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
John 1:29
. . . "Look, the Lamb of God . . .

Jesus fulfilled the OT.

Can you explain what this means, and can you demonstrate how this is, with actual Bible verses?

BELIEVERpriest
Therefore, arguing with you would be like talking to the wall.

You have failed to acknowledge the fact that Noahs Ark has been proven not to have happened. You have failed to acknowledge the fact that the bible creation myths have been proven not to have happened. These are facts. No sane person would continue to believe in something that is absolutely proven not to have happened. It's ignorant.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

it is much easier to take the words of Jesus out of context, and nearly impossible to make the case that Jesus fulfilled the OT.

Therefore, arguing with you would be like talking to the wall.

Oh my.

If the words of Jesus have to be dissected that closely and are lost in the translation, how can you deal with it?
In my experience, the majority of religiously-minded persons pick and choose what they are going to use and what to disregard.

Sorry - I'm still seeing fear here.