To the 1% of Christians going to Heaven:

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

Jesus fulfilled the OT. If the OT is a lie, then Jesus is a lie.

And what if it turns out it is a lie?
Also, I think the resurrection story is pure symbolism and has nothing to do with what actually may have happened.

Plus, have you studied the Essenes? Jesus was one, and there is compelling evidence that he survived (with the aid of his Essene friends, who were very skilled medics/healers) and went back to the East, where he had learned everything during his 20 year absence.

So - my question to you, in your pomp and circumstance, is what if it really is a lie, and the whole thing unravels?
Then, what will you do? Be sorry that you condemned others and thought you had the only Truth?

Yes, I have studied the Essenes, who denied resurrection. Jesus taught resurrection. I find their calendar interesting.

If I am wrong, then there is no condemnation to fear.

I dont know what is in the hearts of men, I only say that Eternal Life is by faith alone in Jesus Christ. Condemnation is self afflicted. I have neither the power nor the authority to condemn any person. Condemnation is a matter of personal choice.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

I only say that Eternal Life is by faith alone in Jesus Christ.

Alright then.
I don't say that - I say being a good person as one grows older comes from having made mistakes and suffered the consequences, and being empathetic to the plights/motives of others.
I believe we are all doing our best at any given time.

Each of us is on a unique journey, there is no path but our own to follow in order to reach our destination. And we all get there eventually.

So then, if it turns out that it's all a lie, then you won't feel bad for insulting people, and saying little kids are sinners?
What will you do to make up for the hurts you've caused?

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest



IF you have Faith In Jesus then you do what he told us to do... that is works of kindness and generosity..

Without which your faith is nothing...

Faith alone Can Not be "the way"

reply to post by FlyersFan


Age of reason in that they dont know any better, because they only know worse. Its still sin. Maturity gives us the ability to resist sin, but it has been there since birth.

Unplug yourself from Catholic philosophy and turn to God.

The only circular logic I see here is that of yours: "I claim the OT is fabricated therefore the OT is fabricated.", "I claim that Modern Science is infallable, therefore Modern Science holds precidence over the word of God."

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Its still sin.

Excuse me, but no, it isn't. It is baby humans. Just like all baby mammals, they have to be instructed in social culture. Do you have pets? Have you ever raised a litter of kittens? Or a puppy? Or a horse? When new, their mothers reprimand....their siblings and the rest of the community let them know what is and isn't "okay."


It's little children who haven't yet learned how to live in a social way. Your attitude seems rather scary, saying that. But I don't know you or your posts that well. I will say I hope you don't have children.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

"I claim that Modern Science is infallable, therefore Modern Science holds precidence over the word of God."

Not infallible. Falsifiable. Although if you pay that much attention to your vocabulary, it's no wonder you have no respect for actual science. Although you certainly have no problem enjoying the benefits of modern science, eh? Always the easy way out. Figures.

BELIEVERpriest
Age of reason in that they dont know any better, because they only know worse. Its still sin.

Um ... no. Your theology is severely lacking. In order for something to be a sin, it has to be a willful act. 3 & 4 year olds are acting out of emotion without understanding.
Definition of Sin

Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law

Since 3 & 4 year olds are without developed reason, they can not sin.

Unplug yourself from Catholic philosophy and turn to God.

Unplug yourself from fundamentalist hate and turn to God. Learn to accept the fact that the Catholics get some things right ... and your fundi preachers get some things wrong.

The only circular logic I see here is that of yours: "I claim the OT is fabricated therefore the OT is fabricated.", "I claim that Modern Science is infallable, therefore Modern Science holds precidence over the word of God."

1 - I state the fact that many parts of the OT are fabricated because they have been PROVEN to be.
2 - I didn't claim modern science is infallible ... but when it's correct, it's correct.
3 - The entire Old Testament is NOT the literal 'word of God'. If it is .. then God is a liar.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

I only say that Eternal Life is by faith alone in Jesus Christ.

Alright then.
I don't say that - I say being a good person as one grows older comes from having made mistakes and suffered the consequences, and being empathetic to the plights/motives of others.
I believe we are all doing our best at any given time.

Each of us is on a unique journey, there is no path but our own to follow in order to reach our destination. And we all get there eventually.

So then, if it turns out that it's all a lie, then you won't feel bad for insulting people, and saying little kids are sinners?
What will you do to make up for the hurts you've caused?

Mistakes are sins. Sin is anything that falls short of God's perfect standards. So yes, preschoolers are sinners.

I still make amends for the wrong I do. We are all still held accountable for sins in this life. My argument with Flyersfan and JMDewey is based on the rejection of principles taught in the Bible, from past conversations. They both claim to be Christians yet reject the one book that establishes the foundation of Christianity. My attack on them is not out of shallow animosity, but from their consistent rejection of cited scripture that should be relevent to them as Christians, similar to lawyers citing annotated law.

So, again, I have not pronounced condemnation on anyone, and I have only pointed out the hypocracy of two individual "Christians". Nothing I have said was intended at hurting.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


The OT is not your book man, why can't you fundies figure that out?

The NEW testament is what Christians should focus on...

Aside from bits of prophecy, the OT has no bearing on Jesus or his teachings

sakes...

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Mistakes are sins. Sin is anything that falls short of God's perfect standards. So yes, preschoolers are sinners.

The funniest part is that here we have an imperfect human pretending to know what "perfect" means. Tell me, what sort of experience do you have in being inhuman? I mean, according to you, being any kind of human is to instantly be a sinner. So presumably, you have some experience in what it's like to be not-human, above-human, beyond-human and how it's so superior to us humans. Tell us about it.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Mistakes are sins. Sin is anything that falls short of God's perfect standards. So yes, preschoolers are sinners.

No, they are not. They are babies.

My attack on them is not out of shallow animosity, but from their consistent rejection of cited scripture that should be relevent to them as Christians, similar to lawyers citing annotated law.

Why are you attacking them?
There a billions of people who reject cited scripture.

So, again, I have not pronounced condemnation on anyone, and I have only pointed out the hypocracy of two individual "Christians". Nothing I have said was intended at hurting.

You don't think it's hurtful to imply, suggest, intimate, declare, proclaim, warn, insult, dismiss and judge other people as sinners? That they are going to hell? Do you tell people they are going to hell??

Just because they don't agree with you and what you subscribe to? That doesn't seem very Jesusy.

Like I said early in the thread, I don't know who or what inspired the OP to make this thread - or what conversations have been transplanted here - , but it seems from following along that something is amiss, and someone has been hurtful, even if unintended?

I don't know who it was or what they said, but it hurt a member enough to make a new thread about it.
Just sayin'.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Even as a child, sins is voluntary. Where an option exists, free will exists. A more matured individual may have the discipline to choose not to sin, but nevertheless the choice is still there.

That is why some children are bullies and some are passive, its a choice.

BELIEVERpriest
So yes, preschoolers are sinners.

Again .. your theology is wrong. Sin is a willful act against God that marks the soul.
Anyone who doesn't know how to reason, can not sin. 3 & 4 year olds are without developed reason.

They both claim to be Christians yet reject the one book that establishes the foundation of Christianity.

The bible isn't 'one book'. 73 books in the Bible: 46 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament. You fundis throw out those books that make you uncomfortable and have 66 books in the bible. Either way ... it's not one big book. It's dozens of books put together under one cover .. and each has it's own story and purpose.

their consistent rejection of cited scripture that should be relevent to them as Christians,

Adam and Eve are irrelevant to the fact that Jesus came from Heaven to save souls.
Noahs Ark is irrelevant to the fact that Jesus came from Heaven to save souls.
Exodus is irrelevant to the fact that Jesus came from Heaven to save souls.
Jesus is capable of standing on His own.

I have only pointed out the hypocracy of two individual "Christians".

Accepting truth isn't 'hypocrisy', it's just called using the brain God gave us.
If something is proven wrong .. then it's wrong. It's just that simple.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Jesus fulfilled the OT. If the OT is a lie, then Jesus is a lie.

One thing the bible doesn't hide the bad, look at King David a major ancestor of Jesus, stole another man's wife, and then sent him to die after his plan to cover it up failed. God's reaction was there infant son would die as punishment.
Disagreeing with it to the point that you think that well that's just story that never happened is called cognitive dissonance, and some really feel that way towards the events of the OT, because they can't reconcile it with Jesus words and actions.

A Christian who doesn't understand God has intervened to protect his divine word, the bible, will never fully understand the truth of the book, Jesus & God and obviously heaven and hell too.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Even as a child, sins is voluntary.

What??? Oh Dear God. So it's a voluntary sin when a newborn cries because he's hungry? When an 18mo takes back the toy some other 18mo grabbed while he wasn't looking?
Apparently you are not a parent, nor have you any experience with nurturing littles of any species....
For crying out loud.

I'm sorry that you are so terrified of....whatever it is that you're terrified of. It must hurt. Let the littles grow in their own time and way - don't tell them they are worthless sinners. Please.

BELIEVERpriest
Even as a child, sins is voluntary.

Dude .. what part of the fact that, in order for something to be a 'sin' and a mark on the soul, the person has to UNDERSTAND and have REASONING ability? If the person can't understand and doesn't have reasoning ability, whatever they do is NOT a sin.

1 + 1 = 2.

Reasoning + deliberate action = sin.

Without the reasoning ... the action is not a 'sin'.
It's just an action. Maybe a disordered action. But not a 'sin'.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


We are ALL sinners even little kids.

I am only pointing out blatantly (I should say 'maliciously') ignored interpretations of the Bible made by two individuals who claim to be Christians. When it comes to litteral analysis, what is stated in text is stated in text. These two individuals ignore that.

When have I personally passed judgement on you?

Blue_Jay33
Disagreeing with it to the point that you think that well that's just story that never happened is called cognitive dissonance, and some really feel that way towards the events of the OT, because they can't reconcile it with Jesus words and actions.

Disagreeing with taking the myths and folklore as literal truth is called ACCEPTING FACTS.
Adam and Eve = Proven not to have happened.
Noahs Ark = Proven not to have happened.
Exodus = Proven not to have happened anywhere near how the the Old Testament claims.
The fact that they didn't happen is just the truth. The truth is the truth. That's all there is to it.

FlyersFan

BELIEVERpriest
Even as a child, sins is voluntary.

Dude .. what part of the fact that, in order for something to be a 'sin' and a mark on the soul, the person has to UNDERSTAND and have REASONING ability? If the person can't understand and doesn't have reasoning ability, whatever they do is NOT a sin.

1 + 1 = 2.

Reasoning + deliberate action = sin.

Without the reasoning ... the action is not a 'sin'.
It's just an action. Maybe a disordered action. But not a 'sin'.

Maybe I'm crazy, but this whole "sin" thing feels like an elaborate cover story for a behavior modification program. Act less like animals, and more like...something that doesn't even belong here on Earth. Like we're transitioning from an organic mentality to something more mechanical in nature. It's really creepy. Sin and redemption and forgiveness all feel creepy and insincere. I can feel the ulterior motives from where I'm sitting.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

We are ALL sinners even little kids.

No.

I don't believe that, and I say you are wrong. We are ALL humans.


That is all.