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To the 1% of Christians going to Heaven:

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posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I haven't either - and I still don't know what thread this one was inspired by.

FWIW, I don't believe that anyone is going to "hell" because it doesn't actually exist; although some people who've been crummy will likely have a temporary "guilt trip" based on their own self-judgment; the guilty conscience surfaces at the time of one's passing.

The Tibetan Book of the Dead resonated well with me when I read it a few years back.




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

. . . we would have no problem giving our salvation to someone else, like in the movie Constantine.
I've watched the movie since you wrote that, and I don't think that was what Costantine was doing.
He was showing people the operations of the demonic forces unleashed by this artifact that was uncovered.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 12:20 PM
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jmdewey60
I don't think that was what Costantine was doing.

The best scenes in that movie were the 'hell' scenes. Whoever imagined them up was genius. You could almost feel the hot dry wind that was blasting ... and the layers ... and the creatures ... and the ruins .... add the imaginary smell of burning metal and sulfur and it's truly frightening and realistic - IMHO. It's pretty much what I had pictured.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 12:25 PM
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BELIEVERpriest

windword
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 





Yes, the Knowledge of Salvation does enable us to serve Christ, IF we believe He died for your sins. But, if we refuse to believe that, then the Knowledge of Salvation is ignored, and doesnt help us.


Doesn't that make Jesus and his magical works ineffective? Can we only save Tinker Bell IF we believe in fairies?

How can one believe something that goes against their mental abilities because it defies their common sense? No one can force themselves to believe something that clashes with their inner compass. Or, are we all supposed to be tamed by God like Shakespeare's shrew, and agree to the claim that the sun is really the moon?


Are you saying that you are mentally incapable of faith?

I doubt that you are. It seems that you volunterily choose not to have faith. Thats my point, anyone can crankout good deeds, its our nature (good/evil), but how many of us actually choose to express faith in the truth...that Jesus died for our sins.


"Faith" and belief are NOT the same thing. If Jesus died for our sins, then that's that, and what I believe has nothing to do with it. Sure, I have faith, but NOT in things that I don't believe. Do you have faith in things that you don't believe?



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 

. . . how many of us actually choose to express faith in the truth...that Jesus died for our sins.
That's the "truth" according to you.
It's funny that, if this is the central truth of the Bible, that there isn't a verse in it that says that.
There is a verse that says, in part of it, something very similar,
Romans 4:25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
(2011 NIV)
The "to death" part is added where the original Greek text seems, to this particular translator, to imply that meaning.
He did die, of course, as a result of this being handed over, though it could mean his very existence on earth as a human, susceptible to all the various forces that can result in death.

The "justification" part I would assume to mean how we, also human beings in this world full of pitfalls, can hope to achieve a righteousness acceptable to God despite all our natural limitations that prevent a complete perfection.
That being based on Jesus becoming sin, and yet, later being vindicated by God in the way of being raised from the dead, and beyond that, taken to the presence of God in Heaven.

The "for our sins" part I think is Paul making this passage resonate with the Suffering Servant story in Isaiah 53, that there was sin in existence that had to be reckoned with, and in some sort of transference of guilt, Jesus suffered because of that. He suffered as if he had committed sin himself, though he really didn't, according to God's judgment, and not man's.
edit on 23-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


Right, only Jesus wasnt some mythical creature, He was a historical figure who produced many miracles for the public to see.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


To you, nothing is true but your own words, not even the word of God can compete with your own personal distorted interpretation. So why not just come out and declare' that "nothing stands before the word of JMDewey." It would save us all that much more time.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 



Right, only Jesus wasnt some mythical creature, He was a historical figure who produced many miracles for the public to see.

According to the Bible.
I just never really bought it. I always felt he was simply a good man teaching important lessons about spirituality, mostly esoteric and beyond the understanding of most of his disciples/the public to whom he spoke.

Sorry; just never made sense to me. Why would we all be punished for something we had nothing to do with?
And as for the miracles: hearsay, all of it.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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BELIEVERpriest
not even the word of God can compete with your own personal distorted interpretation.

See? See that right there? That's the attitude that the OP was getting at.

1 - The bible is not the literal Word of God. A lot of it is myth. A lot is folklore. Some is historical. But whole sections of the Old Testament have been proven wrong. Therefore, the bible is not the literal word of God.

2 - What you call someones 'personal distorted interpretation' could easily be the truth. Just because it doesn't match your 'personal distorted interpretation' doesn't make it wrong. You could easily be wrong in your interpretation.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by BuzzyWigs
 


Have you ever looked furthure than the bible? Or examined the harmony between the Old and New Testament?

Are you not guilty of your own personal sins?



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by windword
 


Right, only Jesus wasnt some mythical creature, He was a historical figure who produced many miracles for the public to see.


There is no evidence of any truth to your statement. Even IF Jesus did exist, there is no proof of any of the miracles that he supposedly performed, and certainly no evidence that he died for our sins or that he rose from the dead.

Even if there was a person called Jesus of Nazareth, I can't believe that Jesus Christ ever existed.








edit on 23-3-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 



Have you ever looked furthure than the bible?

Erm, yes. I've read many, many books on various faiths and cultural religious practices.

I don't see any congruity in the Bible.
Sorry.

As for my sins, I've already 'done my time' and atoned for those, with grief and remorse and apologies and so forth.
I'm okay.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


What I said for JmDewey goes for you too. The both of you consistently reject quoted scripture. When the bible states "these are not cleverly devised fairy tales", you stand up and say the bible is a mythological medley. By doing so, you entirely miss the big picture, the unified message...that Jesus died for our sins as the spotless Lamb of God, and Eternal Life is in Him ONLY. That means no works, no profession of faith, and no amount of denying the validity of scripture will change the fact that salvation is by faith alone in Christ. If you add to that, you reject the Knowledge of Salvation.

Jesus fulfilled the OT. If the OT is a lie, then Jesus is a lie.

When Christians quote the document you claim to derive truth from, you stick your fingers in your ears and embrace ignorance rather than deny it.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 


Well, I believe the Bible is an anthology of ancient myths and legends - and only those which are intended to strike first guilt, then shame, and finally fear, into the hearts of readers/listeners-to-clergy. How can a preschool kid be guilty of sin?
I don't believe we carry the so-called sins of pretend people and are doomed to hell.

So - yes, I reject 'scripture' (all of them, including the Koran), because 'revealed religion' is nothing but accepting someone's musings and rhetoric as truth, when none of it is anything but an opinion.


I see it no differently from the GrecoRoman or Arthurian or Sumerian or Egyptian legends of gods and attempts at explaining the harshness of life turned into control and oppression.




edit on 3/23/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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BELIEVERpriest
The both of you consistently reject quoted scripture.

We reject that which has been proven wrong. Adam and Eve. Noahs Ark. The Exodus. All PROVEN not to have happened the way the bible says. Just because it's in the bible, that doesn't mean it's true.

you entirely miss the big picture, the unified message...that Jesus died for our sins as the spotless Lamb of God, and Eternal Life is in Him ONLY.

Nope. Dead wrong. MOST Christians do not take the entire bible literally, and they have no problem with accepting Jesus as Savior. Seriously .. unplug from those fundi preachers ... they are really filling your head with untruths about other Christians.

That means no works, no profession of faith, and no amount of denying the validity of scripture will change the fact that salvation is by faith alone in Christ. If you add to that, you reject the Knowledge of Salvation.

Wow .. yet another anti-Catholic plug. You guys really focus on them a lot. Gotta' have that imaginary enemy, even if it's fellow christians, eh? Dude, that's YOUR interpretation. And it could easily be just as wrong as those who you say are wrong. BTW .. Martin Luther added the 'faith alone' stuff .. he changed the bible (a big no-no according to the bible). James says 'faith without works is dead'. Something that the fundi preachers just HATE and try to rip apart ... since they have such a maniacal hatred of anything that disagrees with their narrow view of God.

Jesus fulfilled the OT. If the OT is a lie, then Jesus is a lie.

Jesus fulfilled the Jewish faith ... which was based on prophecy. Belief in what Jesus taught has NOTHING to do with having to switching off your brain and thinking that Old Testament myths are supposed to be literal. And yes, large chunks of the Old Testament are a PROVEN lie.

When Christians quote the document you claim to derive truth from, you stick your fingers in your ears and embrace ignorance rather than deny it.

When the truth is spoken that large parts of the Old Testament have been debunked ... you stick your fingers in your ears and embrace ignorance rather than deny it.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 



Jesus fulfilled the OT. If the OT is a lie, then Jesus is a lie.

And what if it turns out it is a lie?
Also, I think the resurrection story is pure symbolism and has nothing to do with what actually may have happened.

Plus, have you studied the Essenes? Jesus was one, and there is compelling evidence that he survived (with the aid of his Essene friends, who were very skilled medics/healers) and went back to the East, where he had learned everything during his 20 year absence.

So - my question to you, in your pomp and circumstance, is what if it really is a lie, and the whole thing unravels?
Then, what will you do? Be sorry that you condemned others and thought you had the only Truth?



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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BuzzyWigs
I reject 'scripture' (all of them, including the Koran), because 'revealed religion' is nothing but accepting someone's musings and rhetoric as truth, when none of it is anything but an opinion.


The 'proof' from the Qu'ran that the Qu'ran is real ... 'the Qu'ran says so'.
The 'proof' that the Old Testament is real ... 'the Old Testament says so'.
Same/same. Circular logic.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by BuzzyWigs
 


A preschooler is capable of lying, stealing, fits of rage, starting fights with fellow preschoolers and disobediance. These are sins and they have potential to develop into full-blown evil. Sin is in our nature. It always manifests itself eventually.

As for Egyptian mythology: No religion teaches salvation by faith in an ultimate attoning sacrifice. The biblical Jewish faith was fulfilled by Jesus. Religion teaches Eternal Life by works, learning esoteric knowledge unto enlightenment, personal sacfrifice,etc. These are all the efforts of man. Jesus taught that faith in His work (attonement on the cross) was the way to Eternal Life.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by BELIEVERpriest
 



A preschooler is capable of lying, stealing, fits of rage, starting fights with fellow preschoolers and disobediance. These are sins and they have potential to develop into full-blown evil. Sin is in our nature. It always manifests itself eventually.

Well, I say that is a bunch of crap.

yes, we are human, and we ALL make mistakes. That's all they are - mistakes. We learn from them. We learn from the adults around us what is acceptable and not acceptable. It's called socialization. We need to get along with others to survive.

Babies are self-centered, it's part of that stage of life. See FlyersFan's explanation.





edit on 3/23/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: little kids are not guilty of sins!



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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BELIEVERpriest
A preschooler is capable of lying, stealing, fits of rage, starting fights with fellow preschoolers and disobediance. These are sins and they have potential to develop into full-blown evil.

Preschoolers are 3 and 4 years old. They are below the age of reason. They do not fully understand
their own actions and therefore what they do are not 'sin'.

Age of Reason

Age of Reason, the name given to that period of human life at which persons are deemed to begin to be morally responsible. This, as a rule, happens at the age of seven, or thereabouts, though the use of reason requisite for moral discernment may come before, or may be delayed until notably after, that time.



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