To the 1% of Christians going to Heaven:

reply to post by AfterInfinity

. . . if we were truly interested in following jesus's example, we would have no problem giving our salvation to someone else, like in the movie Constantine.

That's fiction, and in the real world there is no giving away salvation.
You can share with others, as in joining in with them in fellowship in Christ.
I don't believe in the modern pop-culture religion version of salvation, being a guaranteed ticket to the Rapture.
Biblical salvation means membership in the church, as the new covenant analog to the old covenant's membership in Israel.
I think that the modern meaning of being "saved" comes from the Medieval practice of the church basically selling places in heaven for people with enough money, or willingness to die in campaigns like the Crusades.

reply to post by WarminIndy


But how can you both be right? There is only one narrow path, blah blah blah, and thousands of confusing descriptions of what that path entails. In the end, only one denomination will get it exactly right. Or does the denomination not matter? Do you get what I'm saying here? There's more margin for error than there is a narrow path. There's almost no point to getting the right answer if kissing jesus's ass gets you a free pass. The path is narrow, but not if you take a thousand variations and lay them side by side. Welcome to the commercialized expressway to heaven. For the price of one immortal soul, your path to god can be cleared for takeoff. It doesn't make any sense. You say one thing, do another, your friend says something different and expects to go to the same place, your pastor is convinced you're both damned because his version says something else, and no one agrees even though they're all going to the same place according to the "same" rules. Wtf m8?

reply to post by the2ofusr1

By grace you are saved in faith and that not of yourself ...It's a gift of God ...peace

That just means that we are allowed to be members of the church, not by being born to a particular tribe, or following all the laws of the Mosaic covenant, and the church itself is not the work of ourselves but exists through the works of Jesus, and the demand for admission is belief.
What follows is membership, and the fulfillment of our being saved to good works.
It is not until the end of a lifetime in the church, in good standing, can we achieve "salvation" according to the modern pop-culture religion definition.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

But how can you both be right? There is only one narrow path, blah blah blah, and thousands of confusing descriptions of what that path entails. In the end, only one denomination will get it exactly right. Or does the denomination not matter? Do you get what I'm saying here? There's more margin for error than there is a narrow path. There's almost no point to getting the right answer if kissing jesus's ass gets you a free pass.

Who said we were both right?

JmDewey believes he is right, I believe I am right.

Are you supposed to believe we are both right if you don't investigate our claims? I will tell you, in my doctrine, you are permitted to question my doctrine and if there are things you disagree with, then you don't have to believe it. Let me explain it like this from a Hindu perspective, if I may.

Hindus have many tantric schools (denominations, if you will), each tantric school is based on their particular view of an attribute of the deity. As they simply can never know everything, no Christian can know everything either. The denomination does not matter.

What does matter is if you learn according to your ability to learn. I am a person whose interpretations and understanding come from the human mind. Every now and then I might get a revelation. Does that mean it is right? It means it is right for me. While you are tackling what you believe is duplicitous, you have to remember that doctrines were created by humans with flawed understandings.

The narrow way or the narrow path, if you read the rest of that, the wide path is what people recklessly and without thought take, follow anything because it's convenient for them. So you don't want to believe in Jesus, fine, don't. But then you are going to have to justify the actions in your life, take responsibility for the consequences for your actions. Which is what the Bible teaches, that we must be accountable for our actions. Do you think that no one should be accountable for anything?

But even agnostics can't agree on ultimate destiny. And that seems to be the one area you are the most concerned about, your ultimate destiny. Where do you think your ultimate destiny is going to be knowing inwardly the kind of life you have led?

If you are worried about your ultimate destiny, then perhaps you aren't comfortable with knowing how you lived your life? That's your questions and answers to seek about your own life, I can't put you in heaven or hell.

DeadSeraph
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

I really don't. Enlighten me. Why are 99% of Christians going to hell?

Why should anyone be "going to hell"? Why should non-believers be told that they're going to hell?

You're upset because someone told you that they think you're not going to make it heaven? How many people do you give the impression that they won't make it because they don't believe what you believe?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

You say one thing, do another, your friend says something different and expects to go to the same place, your pastor is convinced you're both damned because his version says something else, and no one agrees even though they're all going to the same place according to the "same" rules.

There is the modern pop-culture religion version that says,
"Oh, thanks Jesus, for paying for my sins so now I am saved, meaning going to heaven, all the while not worrying about things like the world and what happens to it, or whether or not we need to be righteous, since that is why you died, right?"

Then there is the biblical way that says that Jesus came to save the world, meaning to bring it into conformity with god's standard of righteousness, so people can have decent lives and can end most of the fixable misery in the world.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I think God can work in certain ways with some of His family members . Hey if one is blessed with money then it would be easy for God to have that member give much .If He is the one that works within the corporate body then He will choose some to sweep floors and take out the garbage .We all work together and are different parts of the body .

jmdewey60
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

You say one thing, do another, your friend says something different and expects to go to the same place, your pastor is convinced you're both damned because his version says something else, and no one agrees even though they're all going to the same place according to the "same" rules.

There is the modern pop-culture religion version that says,
"Oh, thanks Jesus, for paying for my sins so now I am saved, meaning going to heaven, all the while not worrying about things like the world and what happens to it, or whether or not we need to be righteous, since that is why you died, right?"

Then there is the biblical way that says that Jesus came to save the world, meaning to bring it into conformity with god's standard of righteousness, so people can have decent lives and can end most of the fixable misery in the world.

edit on 23-3-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

This is the first post in which I agree with JmDewey

reply to post by windword

Why should anyone be "going to hell"? Why should non-believers be told that they're going to hell?

"Hell" basically is death.
You don't need to believe in it because it is self-evident, that people die.
The "belief" part comes in with the question of whether or not that a soul survives the death of the physical body.
I don't think that it takes any belief in anything beyond that, in order to believe in that one thing.
People who don't, need not be concerned either way, no matter what anyone says, other than recognizing rudeness and bad form on the part of people who inappropriately bring it up and push it to an uncomfortable point.

You're upset because someone told you that they think you're not going to make it heaven? How many people do you give the impression that they won't make it because they don't believe what you believe?

I don't think it is too off to say that not many will make it to heaven.
It would be off, in my opinion, to tell a particular person that you somehow know they are going to suffer eternal burning torment, simply because you can't know, and even your own future is something that you can only hope for. There are of course people who think their's is guaranteed, but I don't think that ultimate salvation is based on how much you believe that you are saved.

reply to post by jmdewey60

"Hell" basically is death.
You don't need to believe in it because it is self-evident, that people die.
The "belief" part comes in with the question of whether or not that a soul survives the death of the physical body.

I don't believe in death. Death is an illusion. I believe in reincarnation. I believe the soul survives the death of the physical body, but "heaven" isn't part of the equation.

I've been told, over and over, by friends, loved ones, and enemies alike, that I am going to hell for what I believe. I find that extremely offensive, and I find it ironic and humorous that the OP is offended that someone told him, a Christian, that he is going to hell too!

FlyersFan
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

That's just a bunch of thinly veiled anti-Catholic stuff that fundamentalist preachers spew from their pulpits. You know .. the fundamentalist preacher types that the OP is talking about ... **we are going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell. guess what .. those preachers are wrong.

Well, seeing as how I am not Catholic, and infact very much against Catholicism, yes, my post is anti-catholic. But, since my answer was derived from the word of God, makes Christianity anti-Catholic too.

Salvation is by faith in the work of the Son of God on the cross. If you added anything to that when you "accepted" the gospel, then you were never saved from the beginning.

Are you Catholic? Or are you just trying to step on my toes?

reply to post by jmdewey60


Yes, the Knowledge of Salvation does enable us to serve Christ, IF we believe He died for your sins. But, if we refuse to believe that, then the Knowledge of Salvation is ignored, and doesnt help us.

1 Timothy 2:3-7

3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth

reply to post by windword

I don't believe in death. Death is an illusion. I believe in reincarnation. I believe the soul survives the death of the physical body, but "heaven" isn't part of the equation.

An " illusion" that in most cases seems irreversible.
You do make the point that you can go forward from there.
I think that despite evidence of reincarnation, there still could be a sort of stopping place in the process, where you essentially are not "here".

reply to post by jmdewey60

I think that despite evidence of reincarnation, there still could be a sort of stopping place in the process, where you essentially are not "here".

Is that place, "not here" hell, in your opinion?

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. . .

This isn't the writer of this "letter" giving a lecture on believing, but the universality of the offer of salvation.

reply to post by windword

Is that place, "not here" hell, in your opinion?

I think so, and this is of course a very broad deffinition of the word.
I think people can only feel happy and fulfilled when they have a physical body, the reason for the creation of the universe in the first place.
Anyway, the point is you wouldn't want to get stuck there.

(If anyone finds themselves in that situation, my suggestion is to appeal to God to get you out of that "place")

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Yes, the Knowledge of Salvation does enable us to serve Christ, IF we believe He died for your sins. But, if we refuse to believe that, then the Knowledge of Salvation is ignored, and doesnt help us.

Doesn't that make Jesus and his magical works ineffective? Can we only save Tinker Bell IF we believe in fairies?

How can one believe something that goes against their mental abilities because it defies their common sense? No one can force themselves to believe something that clashes with their inner compass. Or, are we all supposed to be tamed by God like Shakespeare's shrew, and agree to the claim that the sun is really the moon?

BELIEVERpriest
But, since my answer was derived from the word of God, makes Christianity anti-Catholic too.

Um .. no. It was derived from YOUR INTERPRETATION of the bible and from your mistaken beliefs about what Catholics believe. Your post has the typical fundamentalist anti-Catholic slant to it .. posting what you people THINK Catholics believe, but not what they REALLY believe.

I lived in Alabama for 9 years and heard the hate pouring out of every fundamentalist preachers mouth the entire time. And it poured out of the mouths of their 'messengers' that went door to door trying to 'save' people (in reality, they were just trying to bring people into their particular church so their ministers could make more money) It was so damn stupid.

Baptists telling everyone that if they weren't Baptist they were going to hell.
Church of Christ telling everyone that if they weren't Church of Christ they were going to hell.
Non Denominational Fundamentalists telling everyone that no one got it right but them.
All the fundi protestants spewing absolute hogwash about what Catholics supposedly believed. All wrong.
Every protestant saying that Jews all go to hell. They said they'd never elect a non-christian to public office.

I'll never forget one morning going to breakfast with my family and we got seated at the restaurant next to a booth with some well known (in that area) fundi preachers. Baptists all of them. They were eating (pudgy bunch of porkers) and all comparing how much they had gotten in the 'gift plates' that were passed around. They were trying to outdo each other in boasting about donations that they got from their parishes.

THIS IS THE TOPIC ...

DeadSeraph
why don't you tell me and everyone else here why you are going to Heaven and the rest of us are going to roast for eternity?

So far, I haven't seen an adequate response.

windword
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

Yes, the Knowledge of Salvation does enable us to serve Christ, IF we believe He died for your sins. But, if we refuse to believe that, then the Knowledge of Salvation is ignored, and doesnt help us.

Doesn't that make Jesus and his magical works ineffective? Can we only save Tinker Bell IF we believe in fairies?

How can one believe something that goes against their mental abilities because it defies their common sense? No one can force themselves to believe something that clashes with their inner compass. Or, are we all supposed to be tamed by God like Shakespeare's shrew, and agree to the claim that the sun is really the moon?

Are you saying that you are mentally incapable of faith?

I doubt that you are. It seems that you volunterily choose not to have faith. Thats my point, anyone can crankout good deeds, its our nature (good/evil), but how many of us actually choose to express faith in the truth...that Jesus died for our sins.