Reincarnated: Past Lives; What if There’s Proof?

reply to post by zuimon

While you make some interesting points on the topic, I can't help but disagree with the set personality idea. Sure we all have certain personality traits we are born with. Where that comes from, I'm not going to claim to know. However, personalities shift and change through experience. The whole "nature vs. nurture" debate....Who is to say that moving from one body/life to another would be a complete change of personality? I don't claim to know the answers to any of these questions but I can't help but think about them. I do, however, find your take on this issue to be very interesting.

Hoyden

Akragon
reply to post by Hoyden

 

By the way a WALL O TEXT proves nothing...

sigh...

In the resurrection we are like the angels in heaven... Angels have no bodily form...

IF you knew the gospels you would see this obvious fact

sigh
you should really refresh your knowledge at least of the classical Matthew Gospel 25.

Because it looks like you have never read it as anyone who has a slightest acquaintance with the Synoptics recognizes the text immediately.
we are resurrected in our human bodies and CHANGED into spiritual one only after Last Judgement.

You see brother, because I know the gospels almost by heart... I recognise what isn't in them...

There is no teaching in the gospels that include a bodily resurrection.... again, it is a fabrication of the church, not a teaching of Jesus

reply to post by Hoyden

I do not understand your question. Exclusion IS and exclusion - maybe a soul bargains on the type if purification needed and is let go to live another life

Sorry. Let me try again?

What if all souls bargain on the type of purification needed! ?
Why are only some subject to that?

I think we make the bargain before we are born....
we know what lessons we're looking to learn, and come [back] here to finish it.

How do you explain it then, that only the excluded people are returned?

reply to post by Hoyden

Because it looks like you have never read it as anyone who has a slightest acquaintance with the Synoptics recognizes the text immediately.
we are resurrected in our human bodies and CHANGED into spiritual one only after Last Judgement.

Please tell me that you're making this up!

When are we resurrected in our human bodies? What happens in the meantime? Why did Jesus promise eternal life if, in truth, we die and lay in our graves until the end of time, after heaven and earth have passed?

What's so special about our bodies that God would re-manufacture billions of them, orifices and all, only to toss them into a burning pit of fire or trade them for spiritual bodies?

Does sexual intercourse create a shiny new soul? If so, why doesn't the soul die with the body?

reply to post by sled735


I said in an earlier post that I don't believe in reincarnation, although I once did. This was what made me believe in it to begin with. It's a great visualisation and easy to do. When back home after the experience, I asked my brother to take me through it again as I lay on the floor of the lounge. And I explored going into future lives as well as other past ones. I loved them all, all so incredible what ones mind can come up with!


And it came about like this

And it all came about like this.

It was early days in my spiritual investigations. I was lying on a mattress on the floor in a Reiki healers room. She was going to take me through a visualisation to see my past lives. I’ll write it so you might like to try it for yourself.

She asked me to close my eyes, she was sitting on a chair next to me. My hands were by my side.

She then said to imagine that I was lying on a soft pink cloud; and once I said I was imaging that, she said I was going to lift up out of my body on the cloud high into space. When I was ready, she told me to imagine feeling I was rising up on my cloud, first to tree height, then looking down on the rooftops, then as if from an aeroplane, then leaving Earth’s atmosphere, then up into space. She then said, when I felt ready I would descend but not into my current life, into a past life.

Having delighted in being up in space, the peace and stars all around and beautiful Earth way down there, I said I was ready to come back.

So she guided me back, saying I was slowly coming back, step by step, into the atmosphere, closer to the land and so on; and then I was on lying on my cloud above the land and she said to get up off my cloud and look down at the ground and to tell her what I could see.

And I saw to my surprise I was standing on brown dirt.

Then she asked me to look at my feet, and to tell her if I could see if I was wearing anything on them. I did that, and incredibly, yes, I was, in fact they were back boots, and I was looking at them from behind. She then asked me to slowly look up my body describing what I saw. They were black leather Texan boots, and I had what looked like jeans on, and as I looked up my back - GASP! - there was all this lush long black hair - I WAS A WOMAN! It had never occurred to me that I might be a different sex in a past life - I was very new to all of this in those days, and there wasn’t any Internet.

She than asked me what date was it, and - FLASH, right across the screen in my mind was 1882 in red numbers, Texas, and I just knew I was a rancher. I saw my horse, my husband, I was in my mid thirties.

She then got me to scroll through different ages - You’re now a child back then... and I was, I could see myself as the little dark-haired girl. Now you’re an old lady... and I was, sitting in a rocking chair looking out over the land. Now you’re at the end this life... and I was, I died so peacefully in the rocker, I could see my spirit leaving my physical body as it slumped forward in the chair. And then it was back onto the cloud and up into space and back down for the next past life. And on it went. With my returning to my current life when we’d finished.

reply to post by windword


Hes not making it up... the church did that for him

Hes just regurgitating what hes been taught...

there is nothing in the gospels that teach bodily resurrection... this idea is only found when one mixes revelation with the gospels

And even then its seriously grasping at straws

reply to post by Hellas


The thing is that the human body is made up of 65 percent water, around 80 percent as an infant. So, in theory, he could have been talking about being reborn in spirit and in body. I personally believe that is closer to the truth than baptism.

reply to post by Hellas

double post

Voyaging
reply to post by Hellas

 

The thing is that the human body is made up of 65 percent water, around 80 percent as an infant. So, in theory, he could have been talking about being reborn in spirit and in body. I personally believe that is closer to the truth than baptism.

It means being spiritually reborn

This thread started by sled started out discussing some modern issues about reincarnation. It was going okay for awhile and there were some interesting posts. Now it seems to have devolved into dueling Bible quotes. That's an interesting discussion in and of itself, and I suggest those interested ought to start a thread dealing specifically with reincarnation from the standpoint of Jesus and the Bible. Nothing wrong with that at all.

But for THIS THREAD it has been derailed to the point that it is Christians arguing over how many angels are on the head of a pin. This started out as a discussion of what constitutes proof of reincarnation in terms of external corroboration versus internal truth, including stories of children remembering past lives. For example, how can a two-year old who just learned to talk look at a WW II fighter plane and say, "That's a Corsair!" and when his mother says, "Look, it has a bomb on the bottom (of this model)" the kid says, "No, that's a drop tank." then proceeds to give the correct name of the (obscure, not famous) aircraft carrier his "former self" was stationed on, including the names of his compatriots, at least one of which is still alive? I mean, I have a granddaughter who is two and a half and can't really talk yet and here is this younger kid who is giving details about WW II airplanes in complete sentences.

These are interesting case studies of contemporary accounts that are difficult to explain away as fantasies. Given the title of this thread and the original discussion, it's germane. Yet here we are discussing what Jesus did or did not say.

It's up to sled. It's her thread. But I'm losing interest. If you want to discuss contemporary proof of reincarnation, let's do it. If you want to quote the Bible at each other, fine, but let's do it in separate threads so that both threads can stay on topic. I'm interested in both topics, really. I like peanut butter (Adams crunchy only) and I like jelly (Smuckers, please), but I don't like both in the same sandwich.

Voyaging
reply to post by Hellas

 

The thing is that the human body is made up of 65 percent water, around 80 percent as an infant. So, in theory, he could have been talking about being reborn in spirit and in body. I personally believe that is closer to the truth than baptism.

Baptism is symbolic of rebirth...

There is a former member who explained it quite well...

The Bible says, "You must be born again." In other words, a water baptism (immersion into the river of life.) into this matrix so we can then pass to the digital matrix of pure word and consciousness of Spirit.

John 3

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Consider these Greek and Latin Words. Why does one linguistic root grow into a branch of knowledge telling this story and not another?

How about some simple words in the Greek and Latin to verify the Gospel message?

Amni - Stream of Water or River

Amnio - Greek "Bowl" or "Lamb"

"Denotes a thin, transparent, tough membrane lining and the fluid-filled cavity contains the embryo of reptiles, birds, and mammals [amniotes]; the membrane around a fetus; diminutive of amnos, lamb; a bowl in which the blood of sacrificial victims was caught. Now used primarily to indicate the membrane surrounding the fetus in utero. "

Amnion - The amnion is a membrane building the amniotic sac that surrounds and protects an embryo.

Amniotic Fluid - Amniotic fluid or liquor amnii is the nourishing and protecting liquid contained by the amniotic sac of a pregnant woman.

Amnia - bag of waters; the extraembryonic membrane of birds, reptiles, and mammals, which lines the chorion.

Sia - Greek > Latin: a suffix; actor, process, condition, or state of; result of; expresses a state or abnormal condition or process of some disease

Amne(sia) - From modified Latin amnesia, from Ancient Greek ἀμνησία (amnēsia, “forgetfulness”).

EnochwasRight

Akragon

Hoyden

Akragon
reply to post by Hoyden

 

By the way a WALL O TEXT proves nothing...

sigh...

In the resurrection we are like the angels in heaven... Angels have no bodily form...

IF you knew the gospels you would see this obvious fact

sigh
you should really refresh your knowledge at least of the classical Matthew Gospel 25.

Because it looks like you have never read it as anyone who has a slightest acquaintance with the Synoptics recognizes the text immediately.
we are resurrected in our human bodies and CHANGED into spiritual one only after Last Judgement.

You see brother, because I know the gospels almost by heart... I recognise what isn't in them...

There is no teaching in the gospels that include a bodily resurrection.... again, it is a fabrication of the church, not a teaching of Jesus

yes there is.

It might not be in your gnostic "gospel" which you know by heart

or unless you are a Sadducee - they did not believe in resurrection as well

John 6:39-59

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 5:25-29

New American Standard Bible (NASB)


25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is [a]the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Matthew 22:23-33

New American Standard Bible (NASB)


23 On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him, 24 asking, “Teacher, Moses said, ‘If a man dies having no children, his brother as next of kin shall marry his wife, and raise up children for his brother.’ 25 Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother; 26 so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. 27 Last of all, the woman died. 28 In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her.”

29 But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not [a]understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 31 But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” 33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.

John 11:24-25

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

24 Martha *said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

reply to post by Akragon


I wonder if resurrected bodies will come circumcised? I truly don't understand such a religious reverence for the mundane physical body, that people would believe that "God" would re-create billions of gassy, watery flesh units to judge and terrorize at judgement day!

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Hoyden

 

I do not understand your question. Exclusion IS and exclusion - maybe a soul bargains on the type if purification needed and is let go to live another life

Sorry. Let me try again?

What if all souls bargain on the type of purification needed! ?
Why are only some subject to that?

I think we make the bargain before we are born....
we know what lessons we're looking to learn, and come [back] here to finish it.

How do you explain it then, that only the excluded people are returned?

edit on 3/23/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

as I have said before - you may believe in whatever you with but we do not reincarnate as a rule and I highly doubt it even happens ans an extreme exclusion. my joke of a bargain was just that - a joke, to illustrate what I meant ( jokingly).

This life is IT. and whatever we do with it - we carry with us to be judged upon.

reply to post by Hoyden


All of which speak of a spiritual resurrection not a bodily one...

Believe whatever you like man... resurrection of the body is NOT biblical what so ever...

That which born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of spirit is spirit...

Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

That which is flesh will Rot and return from whence it came...

The new body is a body of spirit... Not one made of flesh

windword
reply to post by Akragon

 

I wonder if resurrected bodies will come circumcised? I truly don't understand such a religious reverence for the mundane physical body, that people would believe that "God" would re-create billions of gassy, watery flesh units to judge and terrorize at judgement day!

That is just nonsense from church preachers...

circumcision was never necessary... the body needs the spirit, but the spirit does not need the body...

The resurrection Jesus spoke of happens at death, when all people believers and non believers alike will believe

windword
reply to post by Hoyden

 

Because it looks like you have never read it as anyone who has a slightest acquaintance with the Synoptics recognizes the text immediately.
we are resurrected in our human bodies and CHANGED into spiritual one only after Last Judgement.

Please tell me that you're making this up!

When are we resurrected in our human bodies? What happens in the meantime? Why did Jesus promise eternal life if, in truth, we die and lay in our graves until the end of time, after heaven and earth have passed?

What's so special about our bodies that God would re-manufacture billions of them, orifices and all, only to toss them into a burning pit of fire or trade them for spiritual bodies?

Does sexual intercourse create a shiny new soul? If so, why doesn't the soul die with the body?

Joking? are you kidding me? or are so illiterate ( no offense, just stating the fact) of the standard beliefs of basically all the branches of Christianity?

we are going to be resurrected in our human bodies for the Last Judgement. And after that the chosen ones will proceed to eternity in heaven after being changed to be able to be there and the damned ones are going to hell for eternity.
what happens with the soul after death - differs between the different branches of Christianity. Catholics and Orthodox ( although in somewhat unclear way) believe in a particular judgement of the soul and the verdict usually does not condemns the soul to hell or absolves it to heaven but assigns the necessary task of purification to be able to fit for heaven. Protestants skip this part and either consider the soul condemned or saved. Some Protestants consider the souls to sleep and to be judged only on the Last Judgement after the Second Coming.

But every branch of Christianity has the resurrection of the dead for the Last Judgement as an absolutely inevitable part - and as I have posted above that is what Jesus Christ taught Himself ( I specifically did not post the Epistles, just the Gospels).
As one can derive from the quotes the resurrection of the dead was denied by some Sadducees only.

have you even read the Gospels?

Akragon
reply to post by Hoyden

 

All of which speak of a spiritual resurrection not a bodily one...

Believe whatever you like man... resurrection of the body is NOT biblical what so ever...

That which born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of spirit is spirit...

Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

That which is flesh will Rot and return from whence it came...

The new body is a body of spirit... Not one made of flesh

nope. they all speak of BODILY resurrection not the spiritual one - we do not need any "spiritual resurrection" as our soul is immortal.
Only body can be and is going to be resurrected. Why - I do not know. Personally, I think the soul is enough but resurrection of the dead is a part from the Old Testament as well and it is, most porbably, connected to the precious creation of our body by God at the start of times.

That it will be changed into some different bodies which will resemble angelic creatures - I have no doubt as Our Lord says exactly that. But there clearly is a necessity of this particular even - of resurrection of our bodies for the Last Judgement - otherwise it would not be described by ALL Gospel authors and in numerous quotes ( I posted only a couple).

And I did not even post anything form the Epistles - where the references are even more abundant. And The Apostles as Jews knew well what were the Jewish teachings on the matter and knew Christ teachings as well.

reply to post by Hoyden


Again believe whatever makes you happy...

IF you bothered to actually read those passages instead of copying and pasting from some Christian website you would see he is clearly talking about a spiritual resurrection

You are correct in one sense... the spirit is eternal... but few people in this age, and even back then understood that fact..

take a look from one of the passages you quoted...

John 5

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Focus on what I bolded... AND NOW IS... DO you see any zombies running around this planet other then on TV?

No you don't... nor will you ever...

There is only one resurrection, and that is resurrection of the spirit within...

as he said

reply to post by windword


they are waiting for the return of the Grand Rabbi Shlomo Halberstam, 92, Is Dead and they be leave he is coming back.