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Reincarnated: Past Lives; What if There’s Proof?

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posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Hoyden
 



I used to believe in reincarnation as a teenager, now I do not. It might happen as an very rare exclusion but it is not a rule.


Can you explain how the rare exclusion happens?
And if you think that it's possible as a rare exclusion, how can you say that now you don't believe in it?

I think it makes very good sense/logic.


exclusion of a rule is just that - an exclusion.

we do not reincarnate as a rule.

this life is just IT.




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 05:46 PM
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windword
reply to post by Hellas
 


Nope. Baptism and being "Born Again" are two different things. Anyone can be baptized, and baptism is NOT required in order to enter the knigdom of GOd. Only you[/] know if you're born again.






you have to look into the original languages and not into the translations in order to make assumptions on something so fundamental.

NT does not support the reincarnation theory.

gnostics were the ones which played a lot with it, but there is no references to reincarnation in the canonical NT.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by Hoyden
 



exclusion of a rule is just that - an exclusion.

we do not reincarnate as a rule.

this life is just IT.

Can you explain how it is an exclusion though?

I'm thinking that as a rule we do reincarnate.

I just can't fathom how this is just IT. We live for several decades.....sometimes to be over 100....(an exclusion)...

So - you can't see how it takes several go-rounds to learn all there is to know? I think we keep cycling back for several lifetimes before we're able to rise above it all and join the Source.



edit on 3/23/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: I don't understand why my post in in italics.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 05:53 PM
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BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Hoyden
 



exclusion of a rule is just that - an exclusion.

we do not reincarnate as a rule.

this life is just IT.

Can you explain how it is an exclusion though?

I'm thinking that as a rule we do reincarnate.

I just can't fathom how this is just IT. We live for several decades.....sometimes to be over 100....(an exclusion)...

So - you can't see how it takes several go-rounds to learn all there is to know? I think we keep cycling back for several lifetimes before we're able to rise above it all and join the Source.



edit on 3/23/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: I don't understand why my post in in italics.


I do not understand your question. Exclusion IS and exclusion - maybe a soul bargains on the type if purification needed and is let go to live another life


I used to think as you do. That we cycle for perfection and I even used to joke that it would only be fair if one has to endure both genders and different races and so on - all the obvious teenage reasoning of how to be fair.

But one does not stay at the stage of a teenager and along the way, while reading and questioning and acquiring life experience this belief just evaporated because it just seems ridiculous and contradictory to what I learned to believe is true.

It is individual and it is difficult to explain.
edit on 23-3-2014 by Hoyden because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by Hoyden
 




you have to look into the original languages and not into the translations in order to make assumptions on something so fundamental.


Exactly. And there is nothing in the original greek NT, that supports that.

Also on the second coming, the dead will rise again in their body. I don't think that we will rise again in 10 different bodies. We have one and that is it.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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Hellas
reply to post by Hoyden
 




you have to look into the original languages and not into the translations in order to make assumptions on something so fundamental.


Exactly. And there is nothing in the original greek NT, that supports that.

Also on the second coming, the dead will rise again in their body. I don't think that we will rise again in 10 different bodies. We have one and that is it.


yep, you nailed it.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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Hoyden

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Hoyden
 



I used to believe in reincarnation as a teenager, now I do not. It might happen as an very rare exclusion but it is not a rule.


Can you explain how the rare exclusion happens?
And if you think that it's possible as a rare exclusion, how can you say that now you don't believe in it?

I think it makes very good sense/logic.


exclusion of a rule is just that - an exclusion.

we do not reincarnate as a rule.

this life is just IT.


Jesus says otherwise actually...

No man goes heaven except those who came from heaven... Paraphrased...

Not to mention you must be born again... speaking to Nicodemus a Pharisee, whos sins were not forgiveable in this life alone...

And lets not forget, "all things are possible with God"... by denying reincarnation happens you place limits on God




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by Hoyden
 



I used to think as you do. That we cycle for perfection and I even used to joke that it would only be fair if one has to endure both genders and different races and so on - all the obvious teenage reasoning of how to be fair.

But one does not stay at the stage of a teenager and along the way,

Correct, in my opinion. We can think of our lived physical body century here as being a teenager.


while reading and questioning and acquiring life experience this belief just evaporated because it just seems ridiculous and contradictory to what I learned to believe is true.


I don't think it seems ridiculous at all.
I think we do endure being both genders and races and so on.

But it's not teenaged thought.

Lots of adults have thought it also.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:01 PM
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Akragon

Hoyden

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Hoyden
 



I used to believe in reincarnation as a teenager, now I do not. It might happen as an very rare exclusion but it is not a rule.


Can you explain how the rare exclusion happens?
And if you think that it's possible as a rare exclusion, how can you say that now you don't believe in it?

I think it makes very good sense/logic.


exclusion of a rule is just that - an exclusion.

we do not reincarnate as a rule.

this life is just IT.


Jesus says otherwise actually...

No man goes heaven except those who came from heaven... Paraphrased...

Not to mention you must be born again... speaking to Nicodemus a Pharisee, whos sins were not forgiveable in this life alone...

And lets not forget, "all things are possible with God"... by denying reincarnation happens you place limits on God



nope. you do not have to be "born again".

as I have said above one has to look into the original languages ad not into the translations as all the quotes listed here in English sound totally different in the 3 other languages I speak


I do not place any limits on God - as I have said before - it might happen as a very rare exclusion - but it is not a rule.

this life is IT.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:04 PM
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BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Hoyden
 



I used to think as you do. That we cycle for perfection and I even used to joke that it would only be fair if one has to endure both genders and different races and so on - all the obvious teenage reasoning of how to be fair.

But one does not stay at the stage of a teenager and along the way,

Correct, in my opinion. We can think of our lived physical body century here as being a teenager.


while reading and questioning and acquiring life experience this belief just evaporated because it just seems ridiculous and contradictory to what I learned to believe is true.


I don't think it seems ridiculous at all.
I think we do endure being both genders and races and so on.

But it's not teenaged thought.

Lots of adults have thought it also.


we will have to agree to disagree on it.

you believe in it - I do not. not as a rule at least. I do not believe we go through different lives to achieve "elevation". Although I agree that as an exclusion for some particular soul on some particular grounds it might happen. But not as rule.

And as I assume our end points in these beliefs have the opposite starting points as well



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by Hoyden
 


Well considering Christianity is the ONLY religion that rejects reincarnation as a rule... Even the Jews recognised its existence...

how does this sound to you in these languages you claim to speak?

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

OR

Read Job 1...

Naked I came from my mothers womb and naked I will return




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by Hoyden
 



we will have to agree to disagree on it.

Obkb, I can do that!!!

Thanks.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by Hoyden
 


The problem with that is, born again" doesn't translate in Aramaic like it does in Greek, so that's why I say this is what Jesus supposedly said.

There are plenty of instances in the New and Old Testaments that support the pre-existence of the soul and reincarnation.

The belief in reincarnation was extremely popular and prevelant in biblical times. The Essenes believed in reincarnation and many Jews in Jesus' day believed in reincarnation and it was the subject of some of Jesus 'conversations.


“The Pharisees believe that souls have an immortal vigour in them and that the virtuous shall have power to revive and live again: on account of which doctrines they are able greatly to persuade the body of people.”

Josephus himself, who served as a soldier, once rallied his men to fight by citing the doctrine of reincarnation. Josephus said to his men:
“Do ye not remember that all pure Spirits when they depart out of this life obtain a most holy place in heaven, from whence, in the revolutions of ages, they are again sent into pure bodies.” (2)



Reincarnation is also a part of the Zohar, a classic Kabbalahistic text, thought to be written by Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai, in AD 80, with contributions made by medieval Hebrew scholars. The Kabalistic movement focused on hidden wisdom of the Jewish faith. The Zohar was edited and first published by Rabbi Moses de Leon, in 1280. Here are sample passages from the Zohar, regarding reincarnation:
"All souls are subject to the trials of transmigration (reincarnation); and men do not know the designs of the Most High with regard to them; they know not how they are being at all times judged, both before coming into this world and when they leave it. They do not know how many transmigrations and mysterious trials they must undergo." (3)
"Souls must reenter the absolute substance whence they have emerged. But to accomplish this end they must develop all the perfections, the germ of which is planted in them; and if they have not fulfilled this condition during one life, they must commence another, a third, and so forth, until they have acquired the condition which fits them for reunion with God."


SOURCE

Early Christian fathers, such a Origin, believed in reincarnation and the pre-existence of the soul. Reincarnation wasn't officially banned from Catholicism until the mid 1500s.


It can be shown that an incorporeal and reasonable being has life in itself independently of the body... then it is beyond a doubt bodies are only of secondary importance and arise from time to time to meet the varying conditions of reasonable creatures. Those who require bodies are clothed with them, and contrariwise, when fallen souls have lifted themselves up to better things their bodies are once more annihilated. They are ever vanishing and ever reappearing. —Origen

LINK

St Gregory stated:

"...But since there is a necessity that the defilements which sin has engendered in the soul as well should be removed thence by some remedial process, the medicine which virtue supplies has, in the life that now is, been applied to the healing of such mutilations as these. If, however, the soul remains unhealed, the remedy is dispensed in the life that follows this.." – Great Catechism.
www.ccel.org...





posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:10 PM
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Akragon
reply to post by Hoyden
 


Well considering Christianity is the ONLY religion that rejects reincarnation as a rule... Even the Jews recognised its existence...

how does this sound to you in these languages you claim to speak?

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

OR

Read Job 1...

Naked I came from my mothers womb and naked I will return




nothing about the necessity to be "born again"


and forgive me, neither of your quotes has anything to do with reincarnation.

we will return naked - in our bodies after Second Coming for the Last Judgement.
edit on 23-3-2014 by Hoyden because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



Well considering Christianity is the ONLY religion that rejects reincarnation as a rule... Even the Jews recognised its existence...

Yeah! You see it too!


To me, it seems self-evident.



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:12 PM
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windword, please, I do not follow the "gospel of Dan Brown"


Plus we will have the life afterwards, but not an earthly life.
edit on 23-3-2014 by Hoyden because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:12 PM
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I will also state boldly... reincarnation offers freedom from the church, which is why It was banned in the first place

the church teaches "one life" and if they hold the keys to salvation as they claim, then your only choice is to obey them...

Jesus taught reincarnation without a doubt...

the church removed the teaching and banned it because they have no power over those who have more then once chance




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:14 PM
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Hoyden

Akragon
reply to post by Hoyden
 


Well considering Christianity is the ONLY religion that rejects reincarnation as a rule... Even the Jews recognised its existence...

how does this sound to you in these languages you claim to speak?

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

OR

Read Job 1...

Naked I came from my mothers womb and naked I will return




nothing about the necessity to be "born again"


and forgive me, neither of your quotes has anything to do with reincarnation.

we will return naked - in our bodies after Second Coming for the Last Judgement.
edit on 23-3-2014 by Hoyden because: (no reason given)


That isn't even biblical...

Jesus did not teach bodily resurrection, it was a fabrication of the church...

He was the ONLY exception to the rule... and even that is debatable




posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by Hoyden
 


Naked I came and naked I will depart.. Not that difficult, but there is always somebody who will read what he wants to read



posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 06:15 PM
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Akragon
I will also state boldly... reincarnation offers freedom from the church, which is why It was banned in the first place

the church teaches "one life" and if they hold the keys to salvation as they claim, then your only choice is to obey them...

Jesus taught reincarnation without a doubt...

the church removed the teaching and banned it because they have no power over those who have more then once chance



*shrug*

as I said the "gospel of Dan Brown" does not interest me. Jesus Christ NEVER taught reincarnation

to everybody t's own.
edit on 23-3-2014 by Hoyden because: (no reason given)



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