Why do people always argue the wrong things?

I'm wondering why people often argue the wrong things. Is it to derail an idea based on their own agenda? Is it to serve their own ego, thinking if they can get people to agree with them within a post, they get more credit, somehow discrediting the OP?

I'll give you a few examples of what I mean:

Original statement:
" Huge corporations are draining us dry "
Response:
" Don't pick on businesses! Small businesses have it bad enough "

Okay, what the heck? These are two different topics entirely. Let's debate/figure out what should be done about the tyrannical fortune 100 companies/banks and also figure out how to stimulate small business, rather than derailing any ideas that, if implemented, would be beneficial. What's the point of debate, if not to seek out positive solutions to problems/implement said solutions?

Original statement:
" I do/don't believe in God, here's why "
Response:
" Did you know religion/godlessness has caused the most wars, that religion/lack causes the most problems?"

Seriously? I have not seen many reasonable debates on this topic, I don't know why each side tries to shove things down the others throat, but why can't we have a discussion and come up with ideas, revolutionize rather than conform, be our own people rather than being a stereotype for one side or the other. I really think a lot can be learned from people of all religions and beliefs, because with that comes different morals/standards/cultures/ideas. Diversification can be a very positive thing, if people let it. I can learn something from you, and you, me.

Original statement:
" The world is bad right now, what can we do to fix it? "
Response:
" It's Bush's fault! " -Or, insert a random event/person/idea that really makes people mad.

This is huge, and why I think our nation just continues to fall. Banks/Corporations/Government are screwing us over in every way possible, stealing from the poor, giving to the rich, stripping us of rights, even the ones we call " Inalienable " even rights given to us in the Constitution of our land. All the while, we're distracted, apathetic, ignorant, stubborn. We argue about things that are quite small compared to the things that are taken away from us.

Anyways, I just needed a rant, I don't suppose too many will read this, and I realize that typing out this stuff rather than taking actual action will have any impact, but it's late, and I needed to get some stuff off my mind.

Cheers ATS,

Deadlyhope

List of fallacies

We are all susceptible to logical fallacies,

Some never bother to think through their own arguments.

Others, well, some certainly seem to be purposefully obtuse at times.

reply to post by deadlyhope


Not getting your point at all but I have to disagree anyway, reptilians ARE running the world and you can't blame religious issues on the big corporations.

Just kidding. I think the type examples you give are valid and due to 1) attempted derailing of the thread and 2) misaligned thinking patterns of the poster responding to something they just didn't understand correctly. I'll admit I've done the second one unintentionally.

Nice rant.

Bassago
reply to post by deadlyhope

 

Not getting your point at all but I have to disagree anyway, reptilians ARE running the world and you can't blame religious issues on the big corporations.

Just kidding. I think the type examples you give are valid and due to 1) attempted derailing of the thread and 2) misaligned thinking patterns of the poster responding to something they just didn't understand correctly. I'll admit I've done the second one unintentionally.

Nice rant.

Honestly I'm more inclined to believe in the power of stupid than purposeful attempt to derail, never under estimate the human ability to believe we are right despite all evidence to the contrary.

Bassago
reply to post by deadlyhope

 

Not getting your point at all but I have to disagree anyway, reptilians ARE running the world and you can't blame religious issues on the big corporations.

Just kidding. I think the type examples you give are valid and due to 1) attempted derailing of the thread and 2) misaligned thinking patterns of the poster responding to something they just didn't understand correctly. I'll admit I've done the second one unintentionally.

Nice rant.

I dislike that people attempt to derail a thread " just because " I guess IT IS too much to ask for some respect/decency.
I suppose misaligned thinking patterns accounts for a lot, and everyone is susceptible to it..

benrl
List of fallacies

We are all susceptible to logical fallacies,

Some never bother to think through their own arguments.

Others, well, some certainly seem to be purposefully obtuse at times.

I suppose it would be productive to go through steps, within a thread, then? I know it could not be followed with each and every thread, but presentation of facts, debating the pros/cons of an issue or a solution, plotting/webbing all of this out and coming to a general consensus, seems like some steps I think could help a lot of groups out.

This website is meant to be about a group of people coming together as a collective, but more and more I see people being self-serving first, and ruining what could be the foundation for change, just to serve their own ego/establish their " dominance"

reply to post by deadlyhope


So what you're saying is communism is good? I like the free market system and I think women should have the right to freedom of voting and I think Sarah Palin had it all right when she drank a Big Gulp.

(just kidding) But I do see your point.

I don't think it's to derail. Not most of the time anyways. People just have their own ideas. Some are more stubborn than others.

In real life we are to avoid discussing religion or politics . This is why. They aren't topics any two people will feel the same about, because they feel so strongly to one side.

violet
I don't think it's to derail. Not most of the time anyways. People just have their own ideas. Some are more stubborn than others.

In real life we are to avoid discussing religion or politics . This is why. They aren't topics any two people will feel the same about, because they feel so strongly to one side.

edit on 23-3-2014 by violet because: (no reason given)

I discuss such things often enough. If I find the person to be completely closed minded/uninterested, I do not continue sharing my beliefs, but I am glad to hear about what others think, especially those with ideas/beliefs that are not as common, because I like to learn about as many different people and ideas as possible.

AreUKiddingMe
reply to post by deadlyhope

 

So what you're saying is communism is good? I like the free market system and I think women should have the right to freedom of voting and I think Sarah Palin had it all right when she drank a Big Gulp.

(just kidding) But I do see your point.

In a perfect world, any system could flourish. I think the idea is to let the least bad possible happen, which we have let a LOT of bad happen.

You need idiots to say stupid things to make sure all points are discussed however completely insane they might be.

Many times a really stupid idea has actually worked out, at the end of it all wouldnt you rather have talked about everything and decided than just simply ignore the things you dont want to hear?

Biigs
You need idiots to say stupid things to make sure all points are discussed however completely insane they might be.

Many times a really stupid idea has actually worked out, at the end of it all wouldnt you rather have talked about everything and decided than just simply ignore the things you dont want to hear?

I agree with you that not only the top most intelligent people should bring ideas to the table, but that wasn't the point of my post.

The point of my post is that people do not debate/gather information constructively. Instead they just have a battle to see who can establish dominance, or be more stubborn sometimes. Whether ideas are amazing, or terrible, is not the point. The point is that even the best ideas, with the best intentions, can get ruined by ignorant/closed minded people posting in a thread.

Ways of doing this include calling something a hoax regardless of evidence, calling someone a "shill", bringing in irrelevant data to a topic, that might be 100% proven, true, but adds nothing to the topic while distracting from the original idea.

One of my original examples is people blaming Bush for everything. It does nothing constructive, regardless if it's true or not, and just results in a left vs right fight, rather than a coming together of people to better the nation, and realizing we're more like each other than we think. We just need to stand up to those with power.

There's a lot of ways people destroy ideas, and I would love to see a group of people come together and actually work for progress, rather than work to be noticed, or to be "right".

reply to post by deadlyhope


is that not just the selfish act of a normal human, i like to be right but posting on ats i have learned to accept being wrong when shown evidence or a constructive and logical argument.

this is not how most people work.

monkey see, monkey do, monkey say.

Biigs
reply to post by deadlyhope

 

is that not just the selfish act of a normal human, i like to be right but posting on ats i have learned to accept being wrong when shown evidence or a constructive and logical argument.

this is not how most people work.

monkey see, monkey do, monkey say.

Accepting when you are wrong is a good attribute, and one a lot of people need.

It is unfortunate that we, as humans, are prone to do as we a taught, do as we are told, and only question things when it's too late.

reply to post by deadlyhope


agreed. +1S

reply to post by deadlyhope


LOL

Why do all the people who are right, never think of the people who are wrong who may actually be right even through their right to begin with only to show the right were wrong? Right?

Holy sh** your so confusing by your post. I'm so wrong that I'm right, that your wrong to become right.

S&F

I think the more broaden perspective you have the more possibilities and solutions to come, wether right or wrong.

Just accept it or you'll drive yourself nutz in the future OP.

reply to post by deadlyhope


Your thread brings to mind one of the funniest Monty Python skits ever...'The Argument Clinic'

reply to post by AK907ICECOLD


You blame me for being confusing? Lol, you contorted my original post into something a politician would say, and made plenty of spelling errors while doing it, not meaning to be offensive or anything but I will give you the simplified version.

I wish threads could be constructive, and everyone involved desired the most positive and altruistic outcome to that thread.
I wish people wanted to teach, and wanted to learn, and did both with an open mind, realizing perspective is individual, not universal, but realizing that often people can agree on something if it goes through a refining fire. With enough input, with enough criticism, intelligence, ideas, beliefs brought together, we can solve anything.

Currently, we solve very little.

ColeYounger
reply to post by deadlyhope

 

Your thread brings to mind one of the funniest Monty Python skits ever...'The Argument Clinic'

no it isnt.

deadlyhope
reply to post by AK907ICECOLD

 

You blame me for being confusing? Lol, you contorted my original post into something a politician would say, and made plenty of spelling errors while doing it, not meaning to be offensive or anything but I will give you the simplified version.

I wish threads could be constructive, and everyone involved desired the most positive and altruistic outcome to that thread.
I wish people wanted to teach, and wanted to learn, and did both with an open mind, realizing perspective is individual, not universal, but realizing that often people can agree on something if it goes through a refining fire. With enough input, with enough criticism, intelligence, ideas, beliefs brought together, we can solve anything.

Currently, we solve very little.

I am a politician, LOL. I was just having a bit of fun with you.

Your not confusing, I understand how you feel about sideways posts that go off in a completely opposite direction.

But in reality is does shell out (sometimes) a different way to look at whatever topic discussed.

Some threads lose interest and get derailed from a lack of on topic details. It happens.

I'm guilty of it. The speeling errors wear on purpoise.

reply to post by AK907ICECOLD


So we are destined to discussion without results? Count me out!

>.>

Really though, it'd be amazing to come together as a collective, and solve things. Not simply debate, argue, and discuss without action.

reply to post by deadlyhope


I hear ya

Bring up God and the next thing you know people wanna argue over the Bible or Religion as if they're really related




Interesting Rant.