Rome has been remembered for its gladiator's, will America be remembered for its boxers?

So this is a random idea...

Do you see a cycle forming here?

I have read countless mythological stories from that time period of hero archetypes and hero figures that are demi-gods, i read stories about gladiators and the games in much of what i hear about Rome.

So using this as the standard does that mean future generations will view Americans from a similar perspective from the 70's-80's-90's legendary Boxers like Mike Tyson, Roy Jones, Ali and the many many legends that came out during that time period?

reply to post by onequestion



As a species, we're too far down the track to remember (or care about) people who throw their fists around like three-year-old boys fighting over a toy car.


If technology keeps going well, and we keep ourselves alive (which I think we will) then America won't really need to be 'remembered' for anything.

Life will go on as normal, and History books will be written as normal, full of tid-bits of information for each year.


If the world crumbles at the seams, based on our war-machines, there won't be many left to remember anything at all.



If I was to tag America (its Government, which, sadly, is the biggest part of any Nations history) with anything, I'd say that it will/could/should be remembered as The Wolf in Sheep's Clothing.

onequestion

So using this as the standard does that mean future generations will view Americans from a similar perspective from the 70's-80's-90's legendary Boxers like Mike Tyson, Roy Jones, Ali and the many many legends that came out during that time period?

edit on 3/22/2014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

So I suppose its in the eye of the beholder. For me, I wasn't to impressed with Heavy Weight in general with some exceptions such as Ali, Frazier and Foreman in his hay day.

Middle Weight, Welter, etc is where it's at. And by American you mean Puerto Rico than sure! Miguel Cotto!

Since professional boxing is the most corrupt sport next to sumo wrestling;sure, that sounds like a good representative of America.

For real though, I think that UFC has taken much more of the populations hearts than boxing did. It is real. You basically cannot fake it and people love it. Boxing had become more of a pillar of society which was controlled by a small group, rather than a sport.

Dana White should run for president and bring his whole team in as his cabinet. Nobody is going to *snip* around...

Edit to add that I realize I contradicted myself complaining about a sport controlled by a small group, and then prop up a sport controlled by one man... I'm shaking my head at myself right now. The point is the same for me I just think I explained it wrong. Boxing was all about who was at the fight and in which row. It meant something depending what your involvement was with the associations. Dana isn't exactly a tuxedo type and UFC's image is totally blue collar.

Plus I favor bare fist MMA over boxing because it is less damaging to the brain. Boxers are pretty punch drunk after a while because you get punched in the head so many times. In UFC you get knocked out when the hit is very jarring so you don't end up taking 100 of them cause it usually only takes a few good ones, the rest are parleyed.

reply to post by MALBOSIA


But the UFC hasnt been around long enough yet.

I suspect their perception of gladiators remembered could be cowboys and soldiers more than boxers. If boxing had continued to be such a spectacle then perhaps a boxing legacy could endure, representing the individual gladiator.
I think I am going to dig up some Hearnes/ Hagler after reading this thread

No. Regency England was the age of the great prizefighters. Matches often lasted sixty or seventy rounds, and deaths in the ring were frequent. This kind of thing even happened at elite boy's schools like Eton: Die for the Old School Tie

Modern American boxers are milksops compared to the fighters of the early nineteenth century. This, by the way, is a good thing.

reply to post by onequestion


Fair enough. But brawling has.

Plus she isn't out for the count yet. She could be getting quite a beat down but it is not like there wont be an American flag in 100 years. I hope...

I'm not to sure about it but when you forget to mention Rocky Marciano as the greatest boxer then no one will remember the U. S for boxing.

reply to post by onequestion


Boxing was the beginning....now it is UFC.
The UFC is just the outlet of a culture obsessed with violence and punishment. Eventually it will not be enough and there will be games based on the same level of violence, maybe even worse. The rise and fall of major empires had similar games.

Which was the same obsession that Rome had with it's gladiators. Romans were able to use entertainment like no other society in modern history. There are even stories of Caeser claiming that keeping the public entertained was his highest priority because it kept them distracted. If they always talked about and watched the gladiators fight, they would never pay attention to the battles and wars their government fought to keep it's empire alive. Taxes would be paid and people would be complacent. All for their devotion to entertainment. Caeser knew this and used it to his advantage. There is much more to this story...

Think of all forms of entertainment (TV, sports, boxing, UFC, etc) the same way Caeser did and you have just figured out the intentions of all the empires that work behind closed doors. Those same people are the ones making the decisions for the entire world. They don't care for the entertainment the way their serfs do.

thesaneone
I'm not to sure about it but when you forget to mention Rocky Marciano as the greatest boxer then no one will remember the U. S for boxing.

Marciano was from the 50s... not 70s, 80s and 90s.

Regardless... I think if you want to remember a bloodsport like the gladiators, you really have to improve on the "blood" aspect of it to be able to surpass the gladiators. Boxing and the UFC are child's play so... thats why its not going to be "remembered" when you compare it to the epitome of public violence as sports.

Now if you get something like... the movie "Gamer" or the Hunger Games, well that would be huge and would surpass the infamous gladiators. But I vote for the "Gamer" is more "in your face" and you can have a better killcam.

reply to post by Astyanax




That is an absurd statement, any hard hitting boxer of the modern era would have knocked a physically weaker and limited in technique bare knuckle fighter unconscious so fast it wouldn't even seem fair. Imagine Mike Tyson and his jaw shattering left hook or George Foreman with his mean reach and ham-hock hands fighting an upright, flatfooted man before modern strength training/endurance training/basic dieting, before anything more than a two punch combos.............Milk sops ?? The fights went on for 60 to 70 rounds because no one had the strength or explosiveness to put the other person out. If someone is knocked unconscious the fight is over. There is no reason a fight should go on that long, I don't think these were the exciting 4 hour versions of an action packed schoolyard fight that they are made out to be. Guys are hitting very softly for a fight to last 60 or 70 rounds. That is embarassing. That is a fight everyone in attendance should walk out on.



The US will definately not be "remembered for its boxing". It will be a little footnote though to its overall dominance and impressiveness. If you are from the USA, embrace it. ERR GITTTTT OOUUTTTTT!!!!!!! May as well embrace it there are a lot of reasons why you have it much better in the US than you would in most places, regardless of how much you can complain.

reply to post by havok


You know, we didn't have hot houses and production lines on our fight up the food chain. Lest we forget(I always wanted to say that )...


I don't think It is the violence. There is none. It is consensual and based on positive spirits. A lot of the these guys and girls (women compete in mma too, just not UFC) are friends with each other in and out of the ring.

It took a terrible amount of physical ability to survive the violence of the planet. Our ability to fight superseded ALL other life on earth. For some reason our muscle now is weaker now, per mass than most other animals and mammals. But If we had the pound per square inch of a chimp we would be totally awesmazing!

reply to post by LizardSlicks

That is an absurd statement, any hard hitting boxer of the modern era would have knocked a physically weaker and limited in technique bare knuckle fighter unconscious so fast it wouldn't even seem fair.

Besides being highly debatable, that is hardly the point, unless you think boxing is only about strength and not about courage and perseverance (not to mention stupidity). A modern boxer gets into the ring wearing soft gloves and fights for a fixed number of rounds whose length is also controlled. Any likelihood of serious injury or death and the match is halted. Where's the glory in that?

Personally, I consider boxing a thoroughly barbarous sport. I am also aware that most people are barbarians, and I have no objection to allowing those who enjoy boxing to continue doing so. However, I heartily deprecate the rules and regulations that have made it safe. Sports of this kind should not be safe; they should be bloody and dangerous, with a high chance of fatality. I will neither participate in such sports nor spectate, but I am happy for those who enjoy them to do so, provided they are willing to take their chances. The fewer of them that survive to breed, the better for the human race.

reply to post by Astyanax


Man, thank god i am not carrying that much weight around with me.

reply to post by onequestion


Based upon this premise, Australia will be remembered for it's drinking.....



www.alpabroad.org...

You know you're in heaven when the PM is the leading alco.

That's right ladies....crocodiles.

that pic is what people will remember about America the same as they remember Rome as a power

The gladiators were a side show much like todays wrestlers more bread anyone

reply to post by onequestion


Hey,

I enjoy your threads and your thoughts on the "sweet science".

So using this as the standard does that mean future generations will view Americans from a similar perspective from the 70's-80's-90's legendary Boxers like Mike Tyson, Roy Jones, Ali and the many many legends that came out during that time period?

I think that Tyson became an American legend in his own time that even he seems fascinated by, and Muhammad Ali was definitely a living legend.

As far as America being identified with boxers though, I think it would be Sullivan and Dempsey; they've already become Internationally iconic I think.

Yeah but I see the rise of the MMA fighters. I think the UFC gave rise but now is holding that ...holding MMA back. It's not up with boxing yet...but could be. There needs to be some fresh money pumped into the sport with other organizations, better leaders-Dana White was good for when he was needed....now his time is past... and then more fighters with differing styles can emerge. Then I think it will be our MMA fighters...but that's the future.

I think if you looked back on todays gladiators now...from a vantage point from the future, you would see our sports heros. you would see world Soccer and American Football and then Pro Basketball and Pro Baseball...maybe Cricket, Hockey and tennis and golf and a few other sports. Those are our modern Gladiators. Boxing is a strong second behind our modern sports...and then behind that is MMA. Give it a decade and that might switch, but I'd still find it hard to knock off World Soccer players and American NFL, MLB and NBA players as the top 4 forms of modern gladiators.

reply to post by Astyanax


Yeah comparing old school largely local bare-knuckled matches between non athletes for pride to the enterprise of professionally groomed and manager controlled world class athletes that is (was) modern boxing is definetely apples to oranges. The fact if you apply logic or any scant understanding of physics or fighting or flinging poop at varying degrees of forcefullness that these "milk sods" would quickly dispose of a classic bareknuckle fighter via knockout is not. Roy Jones Jr hit from angles those guys didn't deal with and at a speed that would have been downright unfair for instance, and there are of course better fighters than him.

All that being said though I wouldn't partake either. Had some backyard boxing matches and my fair share of fights when I was younger, but would be more than happy if I never have to swing a fist or eat a punch again for the rest of my life. I have been lucky thus far to have suffered no real injuries other than to my hands which I thouroughly regret and have matured enough to value my health and functions and my life. Boxing is very storied has a rich history supreme concentration discipline and training blah blah blah but it really is pretty pointless. All that dedication and devotion and for what? To try and beat another guy with your fists, in a ring with a referee, while strangers scream and cheer. I've seen boxing being compared to chess and other philosophical sounding jazz but that's all a bunch of hype. Boxing is just good fighting by skilled dedicated athletes who have a one dimensional drive to excel in a sport that's made up entirely of punching and taking punches/dodging punches strategies. MMA I am only interested enough to watch the highlights unless there really is nothing else on.

The point, fighting is totally overrated in all respects. But you need to stay fit and ready in case you are attacked or pushed into a situation you'd rather not be in. Much more comfortable to be ready.