The Greatest Conspiracy of them All. And we’re doing it to ourselves all the time.

reply to post by zuimon


I hear what you're saying but some feelings should be denied, my partner suffers from really bad Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and she has feeling she wants to slice herself open or take handfuls of pills, thankfully she denies them.

Personally I don't deny myself anything, my position on the social ladder does that for me enough.

And, despite how it sounds I am actually a very happy, content person

PoetLaureate
Great topic. I've never really thought about this that deeply. The truth I see in it now is astounding though. It is surely the cause of a lot the depression, anxiety and mood swing problems I have. Being taught to bottle it all in and being told that I have no reason to be experiencing those feelings in the first place. As many people have said in here we need to learn how to manage it, not completely suppress them so that they end up coming back with a vengeance.

One must learn to acknowledge feelings and not deny them - if one is angry admit that one is angry to oneself and even to the person in front of you - don't blame the feeling on them though - just notice there is anger arising. It is when one thinks one must never be angry that problems arise - that suffering happens. No one has the right to tell you that you should not feel a particular way - remember that no one is the authority on you.
Anger, frustration, fear, jealousy are all seen as 'negative' and this is why there is a denying of them. Anger happens, there is nothing wrong with it - and there is nothing right with it - it is life happening. If there is no resistance to what is happening there can be no one suffering from life - there is just aliveness.

djz3ro
reply to post by zuimon

 

I hear what you're saying but some feelings should be denied, my partner suffers from really bad Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and she has feeling she wants to slice herself open or take handfuls of pills, thankfully she denies them.

I understand what you're saying, and of course one has to be responsible about such things, but because she might feel like she wants to slice herself open doesn't mean she has to actually act on such feelings. Feeling them, allowing yourself to fully feel them, and accepting you feel that way; and expressing - talking about them as much as you can; and longing to uncover the truth of them, are all things you can do without actually having to follow through on what you are feeling.

I used to think that I should act on them, and that was part of my 'doing what my feelings were saying', however now I understand it's just about FEELING them, and not trying to actually act on them. If you act with feeling and from feelings you'll find you just do, it happens, but trying to go 'into' them, trying to let all the pain come up and out without acting on them, is something entirely different.

Have you asked her why she wants to do those things? And then allowed to her to talk and talk and tell you about all the pain she is in, and to talk and express all her bad feelings, and to talk and talk and talk forevermore and until they all come out of her. I'm not saying you should, but that's how I am trying to live. To just keep on accepting, expressing and longing to see the truth of what my bad feelings are trying to show me. And it's led me into areas within myself I had no idea existed.

djz3ro
reply to post by zuimon

 

I hear what you're saying but some feelings should be denied, my partner suffers from really bad Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and she has feeling she wants to slice herself open or take handfuls of pills, thankfully she denies them.

Personally I don't deny myself anything, my position on the social ladder does that for me enough.

And, despite how it sounds I am actually a very happy, content person

Despite how you have to enforce how you are actually a very happy and content person - it sounds like denial to me. How can your partner allow her real feeling to surface when she is with someone who has a position on a social ladder?
Someone suffering from ptsd needs space to allow feelings to surface when they happen otherwise they will want to escape those feelings by escaping life thinking death is more desirable. It is the fear of feeling life (each and every feeling is aliveness - not just the seemingly positive ones - or none at all) which makes death attractive.

How does your position on the social ladder stop you denying yourself anything? Are you not sad and fearful (angry and frustrated also maybe?) about how your partner feels or behaves?

~Lucidity
I don't know if this is applicable, but here goes....

I think there is pressure on us from many directions to deny or at least internalize our feelings to conform or fit in to society's expectations a great deal of the time.

Put on a different face at work, play the politics, not say what you feel is right, because if you do, you're criticized and judged for it constantly. Toe the line or keep your mouth shut...

...Why? Maybe because people are more open now and there is more to judge. People seem overall to be getting more intolerant instead of less. Maybe that's because they're internalizing too.

For me it's very applicable what you're saying. My wife and I came to an agreement in our relationship: to try and stop denying any feelings, to focus on every bad feeling when we feel it, expressing it to each other, and longing to see the truth of it. We want to heal ourselves of all our repressed feelings. So that's what we do in our private life together.

Then out in the world I put on my 'nice' face, my facade, and mostly deny a lot of feelings that I would express to her. And so I save them up for when I come home. It's taken a lot for me to understand that I still have to 'play the game' to some extent, even for example on these forums - I willingly agree to abide by the rules, so I can't go ranting and raving expressing all I might feel as I'd get booted off.

And humanity is getting worse in that we've got more ways to amuse ourselves and take our minds off our feelings - we are all using technology as much and as fast as we can to do so (if we're honest, it's really what we love about technology). But the trouble is, on a spiritual level, humanity is collectively arriving at the End Times of its feeling-denial. Simply we can't keep going at the pace we're going denying ourselves to such an extent. Too many bad things are happening and going to happen, so how are we going to keep all that pain in?

The pressure is building, and as much as our outer world threatens to implode one way or another, so too is our inner world. And so when the kettle starts to boil and you can no longer keep the lid on it, then there is only one way to go - with all that pain, as it will override you and sweep you along anyway. But it doesn't have to destroy you, you can work with it, which is what I want to try and help people understand a little more about.

Itisnowagain
Anger happens, there is nothing wrong with it - and there is nothing right with it - it is life happening. If there is no resistance to what is happening there can be no one suffering from life - there is just aliveness.

Yeah I like that! 'Aliveness'. I've been feeling-dead most of my life, not very alive at all. Our feelings are in a way our life, they are our spirit expressing through us as feelings. And yeah, it just, IS. I suppose that what's really meant by 'going with the flow', meaning, as you say, not resisting, just allowing all your feelings to freely flow, expressing them all as you feel them. It should be: I FEEL Therefore I AM. Or, I AM BECAUSE I FEEL

Itisnowagain
reply to post by zuimon

 

Wow. Isn't it amazing? Thank you for posting this thread, it is so true.
Feelings are life itself and yes people are always seeking other than what is actually appearing as life. Each arising feeling is like a flower flowering - there is nothing to be frightened of. Who knows what feeling will appear next?
If one is fearful of the feelings that arise one becomes numb by not allowing them.
We learn to numb ourselves as children, because like you have said, parents are scared of feelings too, they deny their own so teach children to deny them also.
That which is actually arising is aliveness and it is denied most of the time - in favour of other. 'Other' is never here so life is denied - no wonder there is so much suffering for the human being. Being is denied in favour of what should be - but who says you should be anything other than what is?
Know thyself.

Yes, each feeling being like a beautiful flower, and you never know what will appear next - you'll certainly will never get bored! And the more I embrace and come to terms with my fear of them, and lose that fear, I am gaining more of a love and appreciation of my so-called 'bad feelings'.

Why do we have such bad feelings anyway? And aren't we provided with them, and the ability to feel them, so as know we're heading in the wrong direction in life - that something is very wrong, and that we should stop. We tried to stop and honour our bad feelings as children, but got overridden and told not to be stupid, so forced past our natural fear thresholds into the realm of perpetual panic - that's how it was for me. So I've been, made to fear some of my greatest assets - my bad feelings, all those flowers in me waiting to bloom.

And yes, if you're taught to fear them, as I was, you do become numb, I sure was, and having to live in my mind pretending I was feeling I was all right.

zuimon

Itisnowagain
reply to post by zuimon

 

Wow. Isn't it amazing? Thank you for posting this thread, it is so true.
Feelings are life itself and yes people are always seeking other than what is actually appearing as life. Each arising feeling is like a flower flowering - there is nothing to be frightened of. Who knows what feeling will appear next?
If one is fearful of the feelings that arise one becomes numb by not allowing them.
We learn to numb ourselves as children, because like you have said, parents are scared of feelings too, they deny their own so teach children to deny them also.
That which is actually arising is aliveness and it is denied most of the time - in favour of other. 'Other' is never here so life is denied - no wonder there is so much suffering for the human being. Being is denied in favour of what should be - but who says you should be anything other than what is?
Know thyself.

Yes, each feeling being like a beautiful flower, and you never know what will appear next - you'll certainly will never get bored! And the more I embrace and come to terms with my fear of them, and lose that fear, I am gaining more of a love and appreciation of my so-called 'bad feelings'.

Life is awesome - full of awe.
There are no 'bad' feelings and there are no 'good' feelings - there is just aliveness.

Why do we have such bad feelings anyway? And aren't we provided with them, and the ability to feel them, so as know we're heading in the wrong direction in life - that something is very wrong, and that we should stop. We tried to stop and honour our bad feelings as children, but got overridden and told not to be stupid, so forced past our natural fear thresholds into the realm of perpetual panic - that's how it was for me. So I've been, made to fear some of my greatest assets - my bad feelings, all those flowers in me waiting to bloom.

And yes, if you're taught to fear them, as I was, you do become numb, I sure was, and having to live in my mind pretending I was feeling I was all right.

One learns to separate oneself from life (feeling is life whether it is vision, hearing, arising feelings - whatever is arising is life) but it is not wanted/accepted ('other' seems more desirable) so this is the division - it is just the game of being an 'individual'. When one has divided oneself from life one seeks endlessly to find life. One seeks for life where it isn't - in time (later I will be fulfilled) or in mind (thoughts tell stories about how it was better or will be better).
One appears to be two and longs to be one again. One seeks wholeness.

If one goes deep enough the 'you' that thinks it has these feelings will disappear and all that is left is life. All is just happening and all is passing, arising and subsiding. There can be no real suffering when there is no one having a life - aliveness is all that is left.

Aliveness is the one. The illusional one - the me who thinks it has a life makes two - when there is two there will be conflict. When the two become one the kingdom shall be revealed.

reply to post by zuimon


Exactly. Too much of anything isn't good.

I was taught to hold my feelings in because where I'm from it is not considered manly and it's also considered very selfish. The question is, which option let's you truly recover quickly? I think each person has a different way to deal with things so do what you think will make you smile sooner.

I lost my dog in 2005, lost my grandpa on my b-day in 2008 & lost my grandma on my b-day in 2009.
My good friend committed suicide in 2006 his brother committed suicide in 2008.
There hasn't been a single day that has gone by that I dont think about them and I still have a cry every now and then.
It still hurts really bad and I miss them so damn much... sorry I gotta go.

Peace