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'Terrain Masking' maneuver

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posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 04:19 PM
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Any pilots on ATS?! I'd be surprised if not. Especially given recent events; well given events over a decade too.

Flying at/below 5,000 ft extendedly to avoid radar.. how far could you get?




Who knows what planes were flown this way in the past (or will be in the future) to evade destination or even stage a 'crash'





posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 04:49 PM
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Their talking head expert saying without night vision goggles you could not fly low at night is in error. Simple to do even in hilly or mountainous terrain. Pick the highest point on a terrain map (say 2000 ft.) and fly at 5000 and walla you miss the highest peak by 3000... Used to do it all the time. Other talking heads have said the stress on the aircraft at 5000 ft would be to much... total crock... However the fuel burn at low level would be about 2.5 times (? as per the aircraft I have flown) as much as it would be at altitude unless you were really figuring long range cruise at that altitude. Which means you sacrifice speed for duration and fuel burn.

Another way of doing it is if your fuel burn is 3000 pounds of fuel and hour at altitude (per engine) then just set your fuel burn rate at 3000 per engine at any altitude even though your speed will be greatly reduced low level.. Have had to do that when dodging thunderstorms at low level for extended periods of time in central and South America.. No ground controlled Radar and the tops of the thunderstorms were greater than the aircraft could climb or I was in the final phase of the flight having to deviate low level for landing and waiting for a thunderstorm to move off the top of an airport..



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 05:54 PM
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Total crock. If you are going to use terrain to mask you then you have to get down in the weeds. That means getting below the terrain. I've watched an F-18 (might have been an E/A-18) and a C-17 training low level in Washington, and if I had tossed a rock in the air I could have ruined their day, they were so low.

The altitude needed to avoid radar depends on the type of radar, the location of the antenna, etc. But all primary radar can see from ground level up. If all you have to do is fly at 5,000 feet, then the Air Force would have a lot more B-1 type bombers, designed for low fast insertions.



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 

I'm not sure if you watched the second video in the OP, but it doesn't deny that the radar can see all the way to ground level close to the radar. The claim is that it can't see around the curvature of the Earth, so the further away you are from the radar, the more the curvature of the Earth blocks the radar close to the ground.

In the first video, I agree with the guy who says that eyewitness descriptions aren't particularly helpful in this case or others for that matter. Then at the end of the video, he says that either the Malaysiand are incpapble of running a competent investigation, or else they are hiding something. My question is, why couldn't it be both?



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


I can't watch videos most of the time, since my primary internet is on my phone, and they throttle it after a certain point.

Using the curvature of the earth, and staying far away from the antenna isn't terrain masking. That's just staying away from the antenna, and staying out of range. Terrain masking is getting down in the weeds, and having to dodge things like tumbleweeds.







THAT is terrain masking.



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 09:14 PM
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Zaphod58
Using the curvature of the earth, and staying far away from the antenna isn't terrain masking. That's just staying away from the antenna, and staying out of range. Terrain masking is getting down in the weeds, and having to dodge things like tumbleweeds.
Yeah it's kind of odd because the guy in the first video kind of poo-poos the terrain masking idea anyway so it's kind of an odd video to post in a thread about terrain masking.

In the second video, I agree terrain masking is probably the wrong expression, it's more like a radar avoidance concept.

What I don't understand is if the plane turned west after transmitting the "good night" message (or just before it, seems to be some conflicting assertions about the timing), and it was seen on Malaysian radar flying west, then it didn't avoid radar detection anyway. If it followed the southeastern arc, for most of the arc there's nothing but ocean so no nearby radars to avoid, though my understanding is the Australian radar system may be able to see around the curvature of the Earth by using reflections from the ionosphere or something like that, though I've seen no confirmation they tracked anything on their radar.



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


The Australians use an OTH-B antenna. It sends a signal up that bounces off the ionosphere and back down. The advantage is that it can see several thousand miles out, as opposed to a couple hundred. The disadvantages are that because of the way the signal is transmitted the resolution isn't that great, and it can't see closer than several hundred miles.



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 10:07 PM
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Zaphod58


Using the curvature of the earth, and staying far away from the antenna isn't terrain masking. That's just staying away from the antenna, and staying out of range. Terrain masking is getting down in the weeds, and having to dodge things like tumbleweeds.



en.wikipedia.org...


A terrain mask refers to the natural curvature of the earth. It is important as a means of avoiding active radar by positioning the aircraft so there is natural earth hiding it from the radio waves sent from the radar system.



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by gardener
 


Holy crap, you are right! Call the Air Force and tell them they can save billions on new aircraft. All they have to do to avoid radar is to stay really far away.

Wiki can call it whatever they want. The first clue is in the word TERRAIN. As in hills, and valleys. Things that create radar shadows that let you sneak past radar.

Staying around the curve of the horizon is staying out of range.


edit on 3/22/2014 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



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