It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Without a belief in the OT who is Jesus...not a predicted arrival the proof being in the fulfilment, just some guy. Pointless.
A great mystic. Doesn't make his teachings less relevant. Sorry if you think he has to be a messiah for his message to be relevant. Furthermore I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to be worshiped.
reply to post by Krazysh0t
I wasn't taking a jab at you and sorry if that is the way it came off ..Going by Catholic doctrine they say that as a baby when you are christened you become a Catholic and it really has nothing to do with believing so I cant see how that could apply to someone who has matured enough to make their own decisions about weather to believe there is a God or not ....peace
This is for those Christians who don't believe in the literal truth of creation and the bible. But do believe and concierge them selves Christians.
How do you decide what to believe and what not to? To an atheist it looks like cherry picking what people wish were true. While ignoring the things you don't agree with. It seems to me that almost every Christian as a nearly completely different take on what all consider to absolute truth. Logically how can any truth be found when no one even agrees on the fundamentals?
You're right. It's all a fairy tale. It's like basing a religion on Jack and Jill. Just stories written by people with an agenda, 2000 years ago.
reply to post by tsingtao
Because we're not supernatural forces. We're bound to the laws of physics, which essentially means we can't just manifest a solution. We have a partnership with the earth, and that means we respect its limits. Then there's our limits - and unlike some fictional characters I could name, we've made a name for ourselves by winning through hard effort and discipline, not by hitting the "instantaneous victory" button.
reply to post by deadlyhope
It is believed the Bible is a book from god, not that each and every copy was hand-written in simple terms everyone can understand/no one could debate.
Because no god would ever resort to such infallible, practical, common-sense measures, right? Its ludicrous to think they might actually take steps to prevent a notoriously flawed society from misreading or misinterpreting something so sacred and important. Utterly laughable, right?
aren't we human? lol!
let's put it this way, the bible is filled with fallible, impracticable, nonsensical societies.
heck, look around you! people want to blame God?
bible has been consistent for a couple 1000 yrs. science hasn't, has it?
The whole POINT of science is for it not to be consistent. Why would you point that out as a falling of science when that is what it is designed to do? That's like saying that the Sears Tower in Chicago fails as a building because it is too tall.
You think it is a GOOD thing that the bible has been consistent for a few millenniums? A book written by men whose claims cannot be authenticated since they've been lost too time is supposed to be more credible then science because over the years the message has remained the same? That's absurd. But if we are going by length of time a concept is unchanged as the most credible, I guess that means that the Hindu religion is the most correct, it is after all the oldest and has remained largely unchanged for a lot longer than the bible.
sure, your science changes all the time.
My science? So what science rules your life? Gravity affects you differently or something?
i don't care about hindu. i am a christian.
i don't care about atheists.
That's fine, I don't care about Christianity. That still doesn't change my point. That the bible has no way to be authenticated so it is a poor source of information. Also if you are citing that the bible is true because of its unchanging nature for so long, then I just gave you an example of a religion whose books are FAR older and just as unchanged as your precious bible. I used YOUR logic to show the error in your thinking, and you dismiss it off hand because you can't be bothered to care about that particular religion. So answer me this, WHAT (in your opinion) makes the bible a good source of information?
believe what you want. or don't.
i believe in science, too. DUH!
First you label it MY science earlier in this very post then you follow up saying that you also believe in science, followed by some condescending retort like I should have known all along or something. So which is it? Is it my science or is it universal?
the only absurd thing is science claiming to be THE truth.
Show we were science claims to be THE truth. Everything I've read says that science is used to predict future events based on past experimentation. It uses probability and statistical analysis to do so. I haven't read anywhere that science claims to be the truth. Perhaps you are mixing the term "facts" with the word "truth". Science certainly uses facts (and evidence) to prove its positions, something the bible never gets around to doing.edit on 25-3-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)
well, isn't your science dogma?
No. It's just a bunch of observations about the universe and how it works. It changes all the time. We already went over this, in fact the whole changing all the time part is why I started responding to you to begin with. There CAN'T be dogma if the concepts are ever changing. Don't try to pigeonhole science with the failings of religion.
hell, the way you science guys talk, the bible is fake and you guys hold the ultimate truths.
in my eyes ya haven't done crap.
The Bible IS fake. Science and it's various sub-sciences have disproved the literal creation account, noah's flood, moses' exodus, and the tower of babel. Science has also shown doubts on the miracles performed by Jesus Christ. But even WITHOUT science, simple logic shows that the bible is fake. Contradictions abound in that book. One minute god is all forgiving the next minute he holds grudges for all eternity. So which is it? The historical record is also doing a good job disproving much of the bible as well. As we study history more and more, especially the religions of other cultures from history, we find many of the SAME stories as in the bible, almost like they were plagiarized. Science is just one tool, someone can use to disprove the bible.
All of that being said, that DOESN'T mean that a creator can't exist or there isn't a spiritual side to existence. Religious types have a point that you cannot disprove god. Science may even prove a creator eventually, you just have to accept that the creator that science may find probably won't look like the creator you have pictured in your head (the Christian one). The supernatural is either fake or just the natural except science hasn't gotten around to explaining it yet.
As for the second part of your claim. Until you can produce a majority of scientists who say that science holds the ultimate truths STOP MAKING THAT CLAIM! That is the second time you've made that claim to me and the second time you failed to back it up with sources.
still hunger and suffering in the world, income inequality, wars, hatred, etc.
where is your science to fix all that?
pretty cool, eh?
Show me where science ever claimed to be the answer to all of those problems. Science may be working on solutions to help those things, but that doesn't mean the overall objective of science is to do that. Science just observes and reports. But then again, religion has ruled the world for the majority of the time humans have been living in societies and created those problems to begin with. So explain to me why it is science's job to clean up religion's mess.
The problem with religious folks like you is that you reject science because it doesn't have all the answers, but something claiming to have all the answers is a dubious source at best, it should never be that easy. The universe doesn't work that way. Science comes to its conclusions at its own pace. It may answer the questions and problems you have, but it isn't something that will happen on your time. It happens on science's time. If that happens to exceed your lifetime then so be it. Just be happy with the advances in scientific knowledge that you experience during your lifetime.edit on 25-3-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)