It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

God's law; The poor always with you

page: 2
6
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 07:56 PM
link   
reply to post by deadeyedick
 

Well spotted. That's an interesting example.
v27 is the most relevant for this discussion; in the rest of the passage, it could be argued that he's using them as agents rather than lending the talents to them.




posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 08:08 PM
link   
reply to post by DISRAELI
 


Perhaps he has a negative doppleganger that drops in sometimes to reap what Jesus has sewn. With so many contridictions in the bible it turns out that anything can be considered a sin. With spirits at work guiding our study of scriptures one could read the whole biblee and never pick up on the dual nature within.



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 08:11 PM
link   
reply to post by deadeyedick
 



Why would Jesus use this parable if he was against intrest? After he says many times he reaps where he does not sow.



you have to read deeper into that parable my friend... It is actually not about money

this parable is about wasting what God has given you...

All the other servants made good use of what their master has given them, but the evil servant feared his masters wrath... so he hid his money away so he would be able to repay it

This is the same as when Jesus said "you are the light of the world, and we do not hide our light under a bushel"

We must show that light to all, for it is a gift from God, not to be wasted as the evil servant did


edit on 21-3-2014 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 08:16 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


Well there are more examples but i must stop now cause i am battling the saying that knowledge is understanding and wisdom is silence.



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 08:16 PM
link   

edit on 21-3-2014 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 08:30 PM
link   
reply to post by deadeyedick
 


I would say that Jesus taught using parables and those parables used the world his followers lived in, not the one he wanted them to create. In order to make your point, you have to draw on the familiar, not the idealized.



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 08:43 PM
link   
reply to post by ketsuko
 


This is never brought up when the saying or parable reflects the good side of things. verses taken out of context to make light of a just or righteous concept are never questioned. example if someone says Jesus loves everyone. Then i can bring up a contridicting scriptures. such as jacob i have loved and esau i have hated. o but GOD said that but then Jesus represents GOD. so they both said it.
edit on 21-3-2014 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 08:46 PM
link   
Usery in itself is not evil, it is in how it is applied that becomes evil. Simple interest on a loan is acceptable providing that it is not outrageous. However, this is not how the banking system works. Neither is the practice of using the deposited monies in investments inherently bad save for the fact that the banks will only give a penance of what they gained by its usage to those whom they borrowed from (without their knowledge).

Fractional reserve banking is as evil as it gets since they lend out what they do not have and then charge interest on the nonexistent monies. Though the Fed takes it a giant leap further and lends money that never existed even in fraction and charges interest on it.

The evils of the banking system as it is today would fill volumes and makes quite clear why God placed restrictions on usery. Usery exploits the poor and lower income families. It is by usery that the Jewish leaders would steal widows homes, not to mention anyone else.

Today we see the same practice with the housing foreclosures by the banks even when it's illegal. Lending money to those that could not afford the interest and then taking the home and what little money the people had just to do the same process over again.

Is it any wonder why God said NO to usery to the poor, of course not, and these are clear examples why. The poor we will have with us always and it is up to us to take care of the poor, widows and orphans, not the governments. Yet I don't see anyone lining up to help them but they sure line up to take what little they do have and them some.



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 08:58 PM
link   
reply to post by pstrron
 


I would have to disagree with that as well...

Usury is literally destroying our world from the inside out...

And we've found new ways to exploit the idea in this age...

Even when one gives the bank their money, its no longer your money... You're charged to use your money, you're charged to even have a banking account which makes the 1% interest most banks give nothing...

Usury is a tool of enslavement, always has been always will be...

IF there is such a thing as evil, usury is the very definition of it




posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 10:05 PM
link   
Usury is parasitism. And money is today created by banks as IOU (not real money on deposit) that they banks then take interest on. It is a giant Ponzy scheme. The western civilization is not helping Africa but are in fact feeding on Africa (the poorest) to keep the west top wealthy in their extreme greed.

www.jubileeusa.org...



Already Paid These nations have already paid back their debts time and again. The debt crisis set in when interest rates skyrocketed and compound interest made repayment impossible.

FACT: From 1970-2002, Africa received some $540 billion in loans and paid back $550 billion in principal and interest. Yet Africa remains today with a debt stock of $295 billion.





Strings Attached The conditions that come with new loans and debt relief hurt the poor. Debt relief under the current program keeps essential human services, like primary health and education and access to safe water, out of reach of the impoverished majority.

FACT: Debt relief is conditioned on requirements that countries limit government spending, private basic services, and/or change trade and investment rules.




Don't Owe
Much of the debt is a result of "bad faith" lending including:

The practice of pushing loans on developing nations because banks had too much money and had to lend it Knowingly lending to corrupt governments for political purposes ending with conditions ensuring profits return to the creditors

Debt is a New Kind of Slavery
International debt slavery means that countries are caught in a debt trap that they can't escape. The debt trap is composed of economic conditions that take away a country's sovereignty and freedom. When countries are enslaved by debt they can't improve the lives of their citizens nor gain control over their own futures.

"Every child in Africa is born with a financial burden which a lifetime's work cannot repay. The debt is a new form of slavery as vicious as the slave trade."
All Africa Council of Churches



Debt based creation of money thru IOU.

edit on 21-3-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 10:06 PM
link   

Akragon

DISRAELI

Akragon
These people are in need... In need of money... and the more they make the happier they are...

The examples I quoted were not genuine "need" for money, but only desire for it on the part of the buseinessmen and the bankers.
So there is no reason why we should be under a moral obligation to give them money freely.
Do you genuinely feel a moral impulse to give the bankers as much money as they like, up to the limits of your ability? Of course you don't. And I suggest that Jesus is not telling you to give them all your money.

The words of Jesus in the gospel are an expanded commentary on "love your neighbour", and there is nothing "unloving to your neighbour" in the act of accepting interest on bank accounts.


edit on 21-3-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)


Of course He's not saying Give the bankers your money... In fact I believe Jesus would be outraged by the very existence of banks, and bankers.

And we're not talking about "bank accounts" either... You provide a bank with your money for them to invest, in return they "give" you interest on that money... that is not usury


Usury is charging interest on money that is borrowed...

Lend freely, means if your brother is in need of money, give him what he/she needs... and expect nothing in return, that is giving...

IF I gave you $100... and said when you return this money to me, I want 10% interest on it... That is Usury...

Now what IF that money I lent you had no return on whatever investment you had planed... You still have to return my $100 dollars, plus now you owe me an extra $10 which you don't have.... Now you're in debt to me...

Evil I tell you... Pure and simple

and yes... banks are evil corperations


edit on 21-3-2014 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


Actually no, Jesus would not be appalled because He used the parable of the talents.


Matthew 25: 26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’


While it is acceptable enough for Jesus to use in a parable, endorsing banking for those who are not able or wise enough to turn a profit on investment, should look for ways to increase the investment even if it means going to a bank.

The only problem Jesus had with it was the exploitation of the poor.



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 10:32 PM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 




While it is acceptable enough for Jesus to use in a parable, endorsing banking for those who are not able or wise enough to turn a profit on investment, should look for ways to increase the investment even if it means going to a bank.

The only problem Jesus had with it was the exploitation of the poor.


If Jesus think usury is acceptable then Jesus clearly is missing the big picture. Usury is hoarding off wealth and the funny thing the poorer the people are who are gonna pay the higher the interest the banks want.

Dump money on corrupt politicians and then enslave the inhabitants of that country even if you did not get anything for the money lent. Economic enslavement for all future generations. Soon coming full swing to US.

www.usdebtclock.org...
edit on 21-3-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 11:20 PM
link   

LittleByLittle
reply to post by WarminIndy
 




While it is acceptable enough for Jesus to use in a parable, endorsing banking for those who are not able or wise enough to turn a profit on investment, should look for ways to increase the investment even if it means going to a bank.

The only problem Jesus had with it was the exploitation of the poor.


If Jesus think usury is acceptable then Jesus clearly is missing the big picture. Usury is hoarding off wealth and the funny thing the poorer the people are who are gonna pay the higher the interest the banks want.

Dump money on corrupt politicians and then enslave the inhabitants of that country even if you did not get anything for the money lent. Economic enslavement for all future generations. Soon coming full swing to US.

www.usdebtclock.org...
edit on 21-3-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)


Let me ask you a simple question: Have you ever played the lottery?

Usury is anything defined as above 25% interest here in the United States. While you might be accustomed to lending or borrowing $20 here and there, but yet buy a car or pay rent, what are you really paying for? The owner of the car is the bank, you agreed to pay the bank, therefore you agreed to the terms of the auto loan when you signed the paper. But banks who distribute auto loans are actually not forcing you to pay more than a "Buy here pay here" lot. Those "buy here pay here" lots are actually charging more than double interest than traditional banks.

Rent, paid to a house owner, he pays the mortgage or the taxes. You agreed to the terms of the lease when you signed the papers. He can charge what he wants because there are no laws limiting him on what he can charge you.

So "buy here pay here" which are not traditional banks also still use predatory lending by backing your credit with unscrupulous lenders who are not covered by FDIC or monitored by the government, so they get away with charging you more. The same thing happened with furniture rental companies such as Rent-A-Center, who you pay double the showroom price. So it isn't necessarily large banks who are guilty of usury.

This concept of "big banks ruin the country and are enslaving the masses" is a fallacy because those banks are actually held to more stricter regulations than rental places.

Economic enslavement has been around for a long time, but because it's popular to blame big banks you can see, you miss the big picture of what is going on in the lower levels. Now, the reason I asked if you play the lottery, which is used for various things, such as schools, who really plays the lottery for that altruistic purpose? People buy lottery tickets because they want to win it big. The same reason people play slots in Vegas or bet on horses, dogs, chickens, whatever. Greed is part of the human condition at every level of society. So blaming big banks doesn't address the fundamental arguments of just what is going on in the individual.

Yes, Freddie Mack and Frannie Mae used predatory loaning schemes, but people still signed up for the loans. But this was based on the Baby Boomer economics of when people used to work at the same job for 30+ years and didn't buy above their means. We do not live in the Baby Boomer era of the 1950s any more. How many people do you know your age who keep their jobs for many, many years?

Society changed and people aren't the same any more. Economic enslavement came about because people no longer have the same values about work or obligations as previous generations. Big Banks aren't to blame for the individual greed of people. Next time you see those lottery tickets in the convenience store, ask yourself why people pay $200 a pop for scratch-offs, because they believe they might win a million.



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 11:28 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


It seems your misunderstanding what was said. Simple interest is just that, simple. If I borrow $10 @ 10% simple interest, all that I owe is $10 + $1 in interest no matter how long I have the borrowed $10. That is not evil.

However, what the banks do is not even remotely the same as that. They lend money out on compound interest at variable rates plus money they do not have and charge interest on the imaginary money, pure evil. That is what has caused the world to be in the fix it is today.

The money you place in the bank is stolen by the bank from you since they did not tell you that once you deposited it into their banking system you are giving it to them and it no longer is yours but theirs. That's theft but to help you feel good about it they tell you they will give you .02% interest on the money you gave them, how generous of them. Then they charge fees on your account above that interest so that it is always a minus. It's a scam any way you look at it. Now with direct deposit you never get any money or compensation for your labor as it's given directly to the bank, thus not yours!

If the banks operated on a simple interest lending system and only with the amount that they had, there wouldn't be a problem. Also if they used your money in investments, your entitled to a percentage of the increase as to what ever your agreement stipulates. Of course they will not go this direction as it would cut them off of any greed.

The problem is not with simple interest but with how usury is done today. Yes we should do for the poor and needy and not burden them usury which they can not afford.



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 11:58 PM
link   

pstrron
reply to post by Akragon
 


It seems your misunderstanding what was said. Simple interest is just that, simple. If I borrow $10 @ 10% simple interest, all that I owe is $10 + $1 in interest no matter how long I have the borrowed $10. That is not evil.

However, what the banks do is not even remotely the same as that. They lend money out on compound interest at variable rates plus money they do not have and charge interest on the imaginary money, pure evil. That is what has caused the world to be in the fix it is today.

The money you place in the bank is stolen by the bank from you since they did not tell you that once you deposited it into their banking system you are giving it to them and it no longer is yours but theirs. That's theft but to help you feel good about it they tell you they will give you .02% interest on the money you gave them, how generous of them. Then they charge fees on your account above that interest so that it is always a minus. It's a scam any way you look at it. Now with direct deposit you never get any money or compensation for your labor as it's given directly to the bank, thus not yours!

If the banks operated on a simple interest lending system and only with the amount that they had, there wouldn't be a problem. Also if they used your money in investments, your entitled to a percentage of the increase as to what ever your agreement stipulates. Of course they will not go this direction as it would cut them off of any greed.

The problem is not with simple interest but with how usury is done today. Yes we should do for the poor and needy and not burden them usury which they can not afford.


But are you accounting for compounded daily interest paid into your account by the bank?

You are making the issue about lending only, but many times I have been given statements that reflect the daily interest paid into my savings accounts. Is that a predatory lending practice or usury to pay you compounded daily interest?



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 12:09 AM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



Actually no, Jesus would not be appalled because He used the parable of the talents.


I've already explained this...

The parable of the evil servant is not about money at all...


While it is acceptable enough for Jesus to use in a parable, endorsing banking for those who are not able or wise enough to turn a profit on investment, should look for ways to increase the investment even if it means going to a bank.

The only problem Jesus had with it was the exploitation of the poor.


This is why he used parables... they all have a deeper meaning then what they appear to say on the surface...

Notice before he uses this parable he was referring to the kingdom?

It was in no way an "endorsement" of bankers... IF Jesus thought it was ok to do such things, wouldn't he have had his own investments?

He was a poor man, he lived among the poor and down trodden...

And honestly im quite shocked that there has been two Christians in this thread that clearly do not understand the deeper meaning of that parable...

I don't even know what to say...



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 12:19 AM
link   
reply to post by pstrron
 



It seems your misunderstanding what was said. Simple interest is just that, simple. If I borrow $10 @ 10% simple interest, all that I owe is $10 + $1 in interest no matter how long I have the borrowed $10. That is not evil.


Tell me...

Why should you receive extra money for lending money?

You've done no work... You've done nothing to deserve extra money...

You've been generous when you lent said money that is all...

So because you give someone money they should owe you more then you gave them in return...

Yes I call that evil... then again, I don't really believe evil exists...

Evil is simply selfishness

And wanting something in return for lending is exactly that...


edit on 22-3-2014 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 12:32 AM
link   
reply to post by DISRAELI
 


My point was I don't think God dictates actual laws such as "consider the poor" but possibly highlighted the main law in creation "choose good".

Man chooses and some have seen fit to say the best choices such as the ten commandments are gods laws. We could say that because Gods law is to choose good all the choices that are good must be Gods law, I would think it was more Gods desire.

I also feel (and I repeat) that the old teachings are outdated. They can be used as warnings but we need a better way of communicating moral to people other than the bible that was made for a society vastly less educated than of today. I think even they knew this would happen. We don't know the consequences of breaking Gods laws if any. We cant prove a God and God does not visit us. There are many things that point to this but its up to us to choose.

A law has retribution: What is Gods retribution if we don't "consider the poor"? Man has made their system for dealing with this. Possibly Gods can be that we will live in a poorer society than if we do or we will be less content as we know its wrong.



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 01:28 AM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


Is not giving someone else in need your hard earned reward such as crop or money a risk? Should you not be entitled to something in return for such a risk? Of course current banking and money systems are biased, manipulated and unfair but some sort of trade system is required.

I cant see many going for 1:1 (1 given 1 returned). Would 1:1 discourage hard work and giving as well?



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 01:37 AM
link   
reply to post by guidetube
 



Is not giving someone else in need your hard earned reward such as crop or money a risk?


No... its a loss

That IS the idea of giving actually...


? Should you not be entitled to something in return for such a risk?


I suppose... IF one believes he/she is entitled to a reward for giving...


I cant see many going for 1:1 (1 given 1 returned). Would 1:1 discourage hard work and giving as well?


Well ya that is kinda the problem with the world, isn't it?

Everyone wants something... perhaps even "an eye for an eye"...

But Jesus didn't say that did he...




new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join