War with Russia??

First off ATS peeps, I'm definatly more of a sceptic then your average conspiracy theory guy. However I have always bought into the OPEC type ones. The ones where. When it all boils down. It's about the money.

I, like most people , think the thought of war with Russia over Ukraine is not gonna happen.... The American people don't care enough and ukrain doesn't have oil.

But, as I just read a couple articles on snowden and the Chinese/ Russian pipeline. The government might have enough reasons to false "flag" something in Ukraine to draw Russia into a conflict.

I've read on many occasions that the US government has gone to war with anyone who tried to buy oil with anything other then the US dollar. The petrodollar conspiracy. That Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan were all to stop pipelines that would circumvent the petrodollar. This I really wouldn't doubt. According to this theory Syria was next, but Obama didn't go there. I'm a liberal and figured that if Obama attacked Syria. Then that was proof to me. That it doesn't matter who we vote for. A shadow government really runs things......however Obama didn't attack.

Then you add in the fact snowden is in russia and maybe we got ourselves a war. A really really big one.

I fear if we have a war, it will be a China/Russia against us and whoever is brave enough to toss their hat in the ring

reply to post by ArtemisE


Things are spicing up and the whole world is involved or more or less a lot of it. The big superpowers are fighting against each other in such strange ways. Russia doesn't really want to go or the people in the country don't but like the situation in ukraine - Everything was centred in Kiev at first and people of the west and east let it be but the west then arouse whilst the East was still working and waiting however when the people of the country seriously have had enough of what was happening as it was effecting them they stood up! They protected themselves against the government policies.

For how long can the people of the world stand this disorder in the economical and political world..

p.s. sorry long time no post

Even if we had a leader in the White House, congress would never allow us to get into a war which is little more than a revamp of mutually assured destruction (MAD). However, we have no commander in chief which anyone would actually follow, so even if he acted alone with one of his executive actions (orders), for once I believe common sense will prevail in preventing our going to war. Understand, I expect congress to act in their own sense of self-preservation, not the safety of us "little people", but that is fine by me.

What we probably should concern ourselves with is the fact that we have a lame duck in the white house for two more years who has been proven spineless to the point its laughable when he starts his rhetoric. Two years is plenty of time for Putin to push the envelope where some military action is required and we are stuck with the (lack of) leadership we have for that amount of time.

The Russians and Chinese could be the ones standing watch at the doors of the polls for our next president.

reply to post by samstone11


I actually think Obama might be the reason we didn't go to war in Syria. According to the neocon/ OPEC theories Syria was next on the list.

Obama is not a lame duck. Maybe you like dying in a strange country without even knowing why or where, but I think most people do not.
It doesn't take strength to send people to war, sitting behind a desk. (or with your family in a bunker)

It does take strength and balls to go against all those people who keep on shouting that America must show the world etc etc. to try and prevent war.

Former so called leaders were nothing but easy going guys sending other men into a war. They were called strong. I call them weak.

I see Obama as a man with a lot of strength and compassion. That;s how a leader should be.

He prevented a lot of American deaths by not letting the Saoudi's manipulating him.

DLensman
I fear if we have a war, it will be a China/Russia against us and whoever is brave enough to toss their hat in the ring

That is VERY true. the Chinese have a long memory, and after the way the Brits and US did them last century,

And Russia and China are neighbors , so there is that. And also, Russia has a memory over the way the US treated them THIS century.

I am not a self back slapping chest bumping 'Merkan. I am fond of my home, but have a STRONG hatred for bullies, liars, hypocrites, etc. And further hate the globalists that hijacked the USA, and feel the only way to be free of their grasp is if the USA becomes not worth their time/trouble.

There is absolutely NO real allies of any substance that would join the US in any significant fashion in a war against the BRICS. someone in a previous post stated that India is our ally.. pfft. lol, they are one of the BRICS, ffs..

Add in that the NK had more troops than the US and will undoubtedly join in. Plus Iran and probably half of South America.

The old saying about BURNING BRIDGES was lost on the rulers of the USA, and the US will endure the fate of the bully.

ArtemisE:

War with Russia?

I don't think so, unless of course America and Americans have had enough of living, war with Russia would equally be America's death knell, just as much as many Americans believe it would be Russia's. Going off the many threads appearing from American commentators regarding Russia and Putin, it seems America is still trying to convince anyone who will listen that they can win a pissing contest with the former Soviets? Straight up...there'll be no winner, just bombed and blasted and crippled countries.

Fact of the matter is, certain countries just cannot go to war against each other due to the global consequences of them doing so, and America and Russia are at the top of the list. Russia's military may not be perceived as shiny and slick and all technological as America's, but they can serve up the same nightmare to America, as America has served on other countries. If America goes to war against Russia, it is guranteed that mainland America will receive the same death and destruction as Russia would receive.

Think about it. The mayhem you see your military dishing out to non-nuclear armed countries, all the bombings, all the fatalities and maimings, all the crumbled infrastructure, will be yours to witness first hand by simply going out your front door. In political terms, Putin is probably the strongest leader in the world at the moment, he certainly puts any American politician to shame, and over shadows Obama easily, outwitting him at every turn. The sanctions Obama has instigated against Russia are punitive and small, and delivered with a trembling hand...but hey, if you want to believe that Russia would be no match for American military might, be my guest, have a go and prove it, put your bombs and your bullets where your arrogance is.

Just don't start crying when your cities are falling around your ears, and you find yourselves experiencing war first hand and in your backyard, instead of on TV showing how brave Americans are killing other peoples while remaining out of range of counterfire. You are not out of range of Russia's reach, you are well within range.

elysiumfire
ArtemisE:

War with Russia?

Russia's military may not be perceived as shiny and slick and all technological as America's, but they can serve up the same nightmare to America, as America has served on other countries. If America goes to war against Russia, it is guranteed that mainland America will receive the same death and destruction as Russia would receive.

all the crumbled infrastructure, will be yours to witness first hand by simply going out your front door.

instead of on TV showing how brave Americans are killing other peoples while remaining out of range of counterfire. You are not out of range of Russia's reach, you are well within range.

edit on 21/3/14 by elysiumfire because: (no reason given)

Take Vietnam for example. They were outgunned at every angle. And they fought more than one nation, warring for 30 straight years.

America will starve, the food delivery system and electricity is the weakest and most vulnerable the world over.

HanzHenry
America will starve, the food delivery system and electricity is the weakest and most vulnerable the world over.

You clearly have not travelled! Try a trip to the continent of Africa or South America, parts of the Far East, India, the Middle East, China and Russia. Outside of the cosy liberal West life is cheap.

To the OP. There will not be war on a world war scale. Believe it or not the world has never been so peaceful, although Muslims tend to like killing each other and parts of Africa are very sad indeed.

Regards

elysiumfire
ArtemisE:

War with Russia?

Fact of the matter is, certain countries just cannot go to war against each other due to the global consequences of them doing so, and America and Russia are at the top of the list. Russia's military may not be perceived as shiny and slick and all technological as America's, but they can serve up the same nightmare to America, as America has served on other countries. If America goes to war against Russia, it is guranteed that mainland America will receive the same death and destruction as Russia would receive.

edit on 21/3/14 by elysiumfire because: (no reason given)

Exactly. This topic/post reminded me of an article I read a couple weeks back. Dont Worry, World War III will Probably Never Happen

There are some pretty good points made by the author, i thought. He mentions the classic mutual destruction argument, definitely a factor. But he also stated that

The world has become much more economically interconnected since the last global war. Economic cooperation treaties and free trade agreements have intertwined the economies of countries around the world

I think the globalization argument makes some sense. Everyone depends on each other. No country can do without exports and necessary imports of whatever natural resources/materials/products they need. At the moment no country is self-sufficient and the sheer amount of trade is staggering.

The US does not need a war to beat Russia. They are going dimantle the Russian economy one piece at a time. Of course as the West slolwly turn each economic screw they will give Russia room to come to a deal. The only thing that would ruin that is if somebody in the West was dumb enough to start making military threats and pushing Russia into a corner. The international community has played this one brillianly so far. They are playing the long game. That is one thing Russia was not expecting. I have to say it is nice for once to see Washington doing the smart thing instead of playing to the audience with a dog and pony show.

MrSpad
The US does not need a war to beat Russia. They are going dimantle the Russian economy one piece at a time. Of course as the West slolwly turn each economic screw they will give Russia room to come to a deal. The only thing that would ruin that is if somebody in the West was dumb enough to start making military threats and pushing Russia into a corner. The international community has played this one brillianly so far. They are playing the long game. That is one thing Russia was not expecting. I have to say it is nice for once to see Washington doing the smart thing instead of playing to the audience with a dog and pony show.

Isn't a very aggressive approach aimed at the destruction of Russia's economy just as likely to provoke a military response that could ultimately lead to a war?

What happens to the kid that steals the bully's money while he is distracted?

I'm not sure which approach is better when dealing with an aggressive Russia, and particularly with Putin.

Dangerous game, no matter how they play it now. The outcome can be the same in the end either way.

Hopefully one side or the other simply decides not to play, quits and walks away.

We'll see.

Im affraid the gay loving ,minority pleasing west is on the wrong side of history on this one and the russians/normal people know this. Why fight whats right. Theres some sort of crimea.
And someone needs to stand up.

ausername

MrSpad
The US does not need a war to beat Russia. They are going dimantle the Russian economy one piece at a time. Of course as the West slolwly turn each economic screw they will give Russia room to come to a deal. The only thing that would ruin that is if somebody in the West was dumb enough to start making military threats and pushing Russia into a corner. The international community has played this one brillianly so far. They are playing the long game. That is one thing Russia was not expecting. I have to say it is nice for once to see Washington doing the smart thing instead of playing to the audience with a dog and pony show.

Isn't a very aggressive approach aimed at the destruction of Russia's economy just as likely to provoke a military response that could ultimately lead to a war?

What happens to the kid that steals the bully's money while he is distracted?

I'm not sure which approach is better when dealing with an aggressive Russia, and particularly with Putin.

Dangerous game, no matter how they play it now. The outcome can be the same in the end either way.

Hopefully one side or the other simply decides not to play, quits and walks away.

We'll see.

russia needs no economy. They need each other united. Not divided.

We need to fill our C-17's with ground launched Nuclear Cruise mobile missiles and sell every X Soviet Nation with 10 or 20 of them and Putin is done being Mr. invader. Simple as that. Putin will not invade any country that could vaporize Moscow or any other major Russian city. Nukes bring peace. Do it now before it is too late.

Look. There isn't going to be "war" with russia. there will be proxy wars and a new NATO vs WARSAW PACT type arrangement. That's the BEST our lords and ladies have EVER been able to come up with when the economy tanks. And who pays the price?Countries like Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, A-stan, Germany (Ever see what a REFORGER exercise can do to the country side? ) Seriously, look at who's in charge across the face of the globe. Yeah, scary I know. But a WWIII isn't gonna happen. There's too much money to be made, and that's the prize. Hopefully, the russians and US will keep the same dynamic. the domino principle. it worked with communism. it should work for terrorism too. everything old is new again. So war with russia? No.
Syria/Jordan/Egypt/Palestine/Turkey/Libya vs Israel? That would be totally AWESOME! India vs Iran? Totally cool. See how that works? it's how they ALWAYS do it. People that don't live in the U.S., russia or china? Oh well, it's the luck of the draw I guess. Anyway, REFORGER was always fun, and I'm looking forward to the "bad old days" as the new "Carbon Fiber Curtain" falls across Europe.

MrSpad:

The US does not need a war to beat Russia. They are going dimantle the Russian economy one piece at a time.

I have read a few of the comments you have made regarding how the West is going to teach Russia and Putin a lesson, even though it is the West that is economically desperate and anxious...take a look at the following thread...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

...you can even read my comment on page three, which highlights how illusory the wealth of the US really is. Dismantling Russia a piece at a time is laughable. Russia and the Asiatics are the new emerging markets, America won't be touching Russia at all, especially so if it doesn't want the dollar to lose its reserve currency status, but I believe that that is out of America's hands now.

paraphi

HanzHenry
America will starve, the food delivery system and electricity is the weakest and most vulnerable the world over.

You clearly have not travelled! Try a trip to the continent of Africa or South America, parts of the Far East, India, the Middle East, China and Russia. Outside of the cosy liberal West life is cheap.

wrong sport, i am a military brat that saw the world. And then as a service member in 2 branches myself.

I have traveled the world my entire life. our food delivery system, meaning the way people get food is weak. Many people elsewhere get their food in more direct methods. other than hundreds relying on a grocery store that has trucks running everyday.

And the electrical grid, which most people rely upon for every aspect of life.

The US is very accustomed to a way of life that would cause unbelievable devastation if the grocery trucks weren't running and there was no electricity.

MrSpad
The US does not need a war to beat Russia. They are going dismantle the Russian economy one piece at a time.

You honestly think you are dealing with drunk ruskies from the 1990s.

Update your knowledge of that you perceive as "enemy", or it will be YOU who is gonna get dismantled