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Petrodollar Alert: Putin Prepares To Announce "Holy Grail" Gas Deal With China

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posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 09:21 PM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 09:55 PM

reply to post by DJW001

Minds are like parachutes....they only function when open.....glad to see you've kitted up at least. There's hope for you yet


Take my hand!

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 09:58 PM

It's on

Looks like there's going to be a jobs boom in the EU over the coming years,

And that is precisely what Russian gas supplies to the EU mean, angelchemuel, and why I brought them up. Russia has badly misjudged the situation and while they can find an alternate market in China, they have now produced a colloasal rift with their European partners that is unlikely to heal soon, if ever.

What many here seem to ignore is that while the EU buys in a lot of gas from Russia, they are heavily reliant on EU imports for a great deal of things worth some $170 Billion annually, including heavy machinery, vehicles and luxury goods, the likes of which one cannot get from China seeing as they import the exact same thing from the EU as well.

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 10:00 PM
It is difficult--nay--grossly apparent that paranoia doth weigh heavily on many an American mind. It was drilled in during the Cold War years; a kind of amoral blinder to the bombs getting bigger, to the military interweaving itself with the wings of industry—and it is still proving useful. Indeed, the only way the forward march can continue, is to keep that fear pedal stuck to the floor. There be boogey men in dem dare hills, children. Look how ugly!

Are we all not forgetting history, some of it recent? Are you not forgoing the remembrance of the ties you made, with many a tyrant and fiend, and often to the great woe and misery of their respective peoples?
Russia and China are looking to sign a King Size deal. Lots of gas, and lots of cash, and not a cent dropped into the hungry coffers of Uncle Sam. This is an injustice, et cetera. Look out! Ad nauseum.

This does NOT demark the onset of World War Three. It’s a strengthening of ties, away from those whose hands would sooner turn to fists than offer a fair bargain. And besides, why would China want to such a deal with the US. Y’all pretty broke and China is the bank.

Basic economic rationalism defines that they look elsewhere.


posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 10:12 PM
reply to post by Milleresque

On that note....I shall go to my bed with a smile on my face...thank you


posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 10:56 PM
reply to post by Milleresque

Most certainly it is a strengthening of ties

Between the western countries and between the Eastern countries

But it is without question caused a cleaner more clearer divide between the two

It's about dominance and control

Both want it

There is no difference in there goals only different values, systems and rights that the people love under such ruling powers

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 11:05 PM
Hi, first post

A lot of this is kind of just people taking the panic button from energy companies and Govt, Govt which has a lot of income from... energy companies and energy company execs in high places.

1: It's not the end of the USA it's the start of a Multi polar world

2: It's not the end f USA security, it's the end of ridiculously expensive adventurism around the world, which is not a bad thing for you and I as citizens.

3: It's not "rational" to think North Americans can work hard and efficient enough to best the economic clout of 1.5 Billion Chinese or 1.2 Billion Indians. To continue this charade would mean each American has to put in the effort of Five Chinese, which frankly corporate attempts to create this reality have given us no ketchup at the drive through, supermarket with 2 cashiers, the purchasing of crappy foreign junk to be sold in chain stores like Walmart, Gmo foods, Prisons as corporations and well... just about everything else that sucks at this point and time, loosing this ridiculous frackin impossible contest might not be terrible.

It will suck at first but by necessity things will have to change

Things like... States that wont allow the sale of the Tesla, Energy companies charging you for using Solar etc etc...

Those that are making life suck, working us to death, creating the need for our "excursions" around the globe will suffer

The reality, out continent has the Food, the Energy, the Tech, the Water and 3,500 nukes that say "you wont invade" your all defending monopolies that might be making a few people rich but the rest of us poor, this might be just the break we need, inevitably life in Russia was much nicer after the fall of the Soviet union than before. This could all be good news, high time a lot of Billionaires from a dying era got on planes and went to wherever the hell they plan to enjoy the beach and let a new guard emerge in America honestly.

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 11:07 PM
reply to post by Milleresque

A high state of fear is the perfect time to get people to enter agreements they would normally have reservations about. This agreement between China and Russia would have business with factories in China salivating at the mouth. The following trade deal would also cause much rubbing of hands. Lots of big moves being made in the near future.

Russia's annexation of Crimea underlines the need for the United States and the European Union to substantially deepen their economic ties, Washington's top trade official said on Saturday, opening the door to U.S. exports of natural gas to Europe.

Days before U.S. President Barack Obama and EU officials hold a summit in Brussels, U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman said the rationale "could never be stronger" for a U.S.-EU free-trade pact, despite growing public hostility to it.
edit on 22-3-2014 by john452 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 11:12 PM

As I said you have your head in the sand
reply to post by TritonTaranis

Are you kidding me...China has no wealth? You literally have no clue what you are talking about.

Let me take you back to school.

China imported more physical gold last year than the entire world output.

It’s Official: China Consumed, Mined & Imported The Most Gold Ever In 2013


Did you read that?? China has been buying every ounce of physical gold it can get it's hands on since 2011. Now along comes this trade deal between Russia and China. Now...with demand for physical gold at an all time high...ask yourself why the price of gold hasn't went sky high??

The following artice details how China is using the US gold paper market AGAINST order to import gold at rock bottom prices....absolutely brilliant move on China's part.

How China Imported A Record $70 Billion In Physical Gold Without Sending The Price Of Gold Soaring

Zero Hedge Article....HERE

I suggest you quit listening to retards and watch this...

Jim Sinclair...Russia can collapse US economy.

In case player isn't working...HERE

It's 29 mins long and oh so enlightening.

Now why do you suppose China would want to buy so much physical gold???

I'll tell you....China and Russia are planning to crush the petro dollar....and in that scenario.....he who holds the most gold wins!!

But Reuters notes that Russia may be mere months away from signing a bilateral trade deal with China, where China would buy huge quantities of Russian oil and gas.

Zero Hedge argues:

Add bilateral trade denominated in either Rubles or Renminbi (or gold), add Iran, Iraq, India, and soon the Saudis (China’s largest foreign source of crude, whose crown prince also happened to meet president Xi Jinping last week to expand trade further) and wave goodbye to the petrodollar.

In any event, a switch to pricing petroleum in anything other than dollars exclusively – whether a single alternative currency, gold, or even a mix of currencies or commodities – would spell the end of the dollar as the world’s reserve currency.

For that reason, Sinclair – no fan of either Russia or Putin – urges American leaders to back away from an economic confrontation with Russia, arguing that the U.S. would be the loser.

Putin Has Nuclear Economic Bomb

On Russia countering Western sanctions, Sinclair says watch the “struggling dollar” and Russia accepting any currency for oil and natural gas. Sinclair explains, “It’s struggling . . . because it smells the real teeth of retaliation for sanctions being in the simple acceptance of any currency whatsoever for payment for gas to Europe. Believe me, they will settle in other currencies. . . . It makes energy cheaper. Why in the world would anyone want to pay in dollars if they can pay in their own currency? Russia could retaliate in a way that would have phenomenal impact on the U.S. dollar. . . . Russia has the upper hand. They have it in their ability to turn the U.S. economy upside down and into collapse. There is no question whatsoever. Putin doesn’t need a nuclear bomb. He has a nuclear economic bomb that he can set off at any time.”

Article...HERE the US...this is what's happening....

Where is Germany’s Gold?

The financial world was shocked this month by a demand from Germany’s Bundesbank to repatriate a large portion of its gold reserves held abroad. By 2020, Germany wants 50% of its total gold reserves back in Frankfurt – including 300 tons from the Federal Reserve. The Bundesbank’s announcement comes just three months after the Fed refused to submit to an audit of its holdings on Germany’s behalf. One cannot help but wonder if the refusal triggered the demand.

Either way, Germany appears to be waking up to a reality for which central banks around the world have been preparing: the dollar is no longer the world’s safe-haven asset and the US government is no longer a trustworthy banker for foreign nations. It looks like their fears are well-grounded, given the Fed’s seeming inability to return what is legally Germany’s gold in a timely manner. Germany is a developed and powerful nation with the second largest gold reserves in the world. If they can’t rely on Washington to keep its promises, who can?


So how much gold did the Germans manage to get out of the US....

Germany Has Recovered A Paltry 5 Tons Of Gold From The NY Fed After One Year


So....who has their head in the sand??

Typical American arrogance...but I can ASSURE you that it will not continue for much longer.

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 11:21 PM
reply to post by john452

We need China to take the Natural gas from Russia (we as in You and I as human beings) more than we need to remain the petrol dollar and continue creating hate to our people global.

I wake up, I don't actually need a fantastic car, I don't benefit from high priced real estate, I only PAY utilities, utilities that I am not even allowed by law to circumvent via solar in my state because of these idiots.

But... I will do a damn bit better at life if China slows down the god damn coal use.

I'm sorry, but energy companies and other mega corps getting trillion dollar bailouts from tax dollar while we are constantly posturing with other govts on the behest of energy lobbyists doesn't help me economically one bit... what WOULD, would be playing it cool so small business people could actually export to nations like China and enjoy the spending power of 1.5 Billion consumerist Chinese

The energy moguls are totally screwing this up for you and I

Look at the debate over the Islands, they have the average Japanese person convinced that War and saving a couple of dimes on gas from China will lead to more money for the Japanese economy risking the lives of 120 Million Japanese in the process, when Japan is next door to... 1.5 billion people who could purchase Japanese goods if they just played nice... there is no way a country could economically loose... but these energy execs are freaking insane for profit while fukushima melts away...

and they play our fiddle here too, it's been decades since cars were invented that could get massive gas millage, every home can supply it's own energy these days

It's in the end, freakin great if China is supplied clean energy and it's people can buy crap endlessly so long as we play nice...

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 11:28 PM

Talk about the LONG GAME.....think of this......
Russia pulls the plug on the European gas.....maybe this is engineered by the that the Syrian Pipeline becomes even more nessessary to Europe....also the Cyprus gas fields as well as Israeli undersea gas,will be in higher demand to feed Europe which has no gas.....

In the LONG GAME: if Europe were not foolish they'd build more nuclear power plants.

Germany is an idiot to turn theirs off now. If I could trust anybody to run nuclear plants, its Germans: high standards of engineering and accountability, no shame-based strict hierarchical culture contributing to coverups, and situated in fundamentally geologically stable locations.

Obviously the greenest energy like wind and solar is better than nuclear, but it's ridiculous to pit them against nuclear, until the last coal-fired and last gas-fired plant has been shut, the doors welded, and every mine, well, and fossil fuel pipeline concreted up.

edit on 22-3-2014 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-3-2014 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 11:34 PM
reply to post by mbkennel

There is an economic cost but one direction is Energy independent with zero risk and the other is a nightmare. The Germans have always been great technologists they don't need Nuclear, they can get the job done with better means and in the long run will be better off as well.

America is failing to lead the world on this round mostly because of the money and power of big Energy corps and their lobbyists and influence.Most people don't even believe it's possible which in reality is a joke, we can walk on foreign oil and gas tomorrow, the economy for the rest of us will only improve 85% of people can get rid of their utilities over a couple of years starting right now and in the states where nature makes it easiest it's already basically illegal to do so. Germany is handling it perfectly, the truth is Russia and China with their needs and economic dependence on this junk are 40 years behind us like always.

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 11:34 PM
reply to post by criticalhit

Oh I believe both potential deals will be great for the US, China and for big business. For Europe and Russia not so much and it's why I suggested that while fear is high in these nations it is the opportune time to get them to sign these deals. The EU loses a supplier and Russia loses a market. The laws of supply and demand suggest Russia will be selling their oil for less to China and Europe will be paying more for their energy from the US.
edit on 22-3-2014 by john452 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 11:40 PM

Cancerwarrior And what "cards" exactly? There is really nothing that Obama can do to Russia except slap some pointless sanctions on them that could very well backfire if the worlds number 1 energy producer (Russia) makes a deal with the worlds number one energy consumer (China) to buy/sell in something other than dollars.

And what would happen if that came to pass?

Russians get increasingly devalued rubles (China: "you mean we can pay for our gas in your pathetic devaluing currency? do we get a fixed price in rubles? awesome!!!"), or renmibi which are not fully and easily interconvertible.

China still has a closed capital account, so what are those Russian oil billionaires going to do with their renmibi? The one thing they are forbidden from doing is buying Chinese bonds in renmibi, which is the obvious investment if you have buttloads of it that you can't change.

If Russia decides to stop selling gas to Europe, what does that mean? It means that they will have to sell it at a discount to China. Obvious market phenomenon---fewer buyers, lower price. Knowing how Chinese work, do you think they will fail to take advantage of Russian weakness? Fail to make a good financial deal for China? What happens to Putin's political power when he has less hard money to buy off people?

"reserve currencies" don't come about because a man who likes to show off his chest say he wants one.

They come about because of the choice of independent people in the free market. If the Saudis wanted something other than dollars, they could ask for them. They don't.

Reserve currencies don't come about because of commodity flows, even for oil or gas. It's the bond market, stupid. The power of the capital flows and investment far outweighs physical trade.

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 11:42 PM
reply to post by john452

Yeah China's the big winner no matter what in this scenario. But we all need to get real, if Russia leans to Asia so be it... the win is still China not Russia, some Chinese stay behind in Siberia every time they do any business regardless, there are only 3 Million Russians in all of Siberia.

And frankly just to say this, as a person who's grandparents hail from Crimea, it's freakin Russian lol.

posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 11:53 PM
reply to post by criticalhit

The US wins too or at least US companies and especially if they get the trade deal they are pushing for with the EU. If anyone believes it will be cheaper to ship energy resources from the US to Europe than pipe them from mainland Europe than I don't know what to think about that. Even if you discount the logistics involved the loss of a supplier gives the remaining suppliers more power over their pricing.

US companies also have a lot of factories in China who will now have lower energy costs making them even more competitive. The companies still based in the US who directly compete with the high tech markets in Europe against European companies also gain competitiveness as they will be getting US energy at cheaper prices than Europe will be getting US energy, obviously. Increased access to EU markets through the free trade deal and more competitive companies due to energy costs being lower than their European rivals equals a massive win for US companies.
edit on 23-3-2014 by john452 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 12:07 AM
reply to post by john452

Nobody wins while the Energy companies continue this game.

Our Govt calculates viability of existing supplies in regards to "Hundreds of Years"

These guys want to establish dynasties based around oil that last centuries, centuries of slavery and war. The technology exists, and they will absolutely encourage in the "protection money" fashion Govts to war to keep the petrol scheme going long after we are all dead.

posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 12:34 AM
reply to post by criticalhit

That's why I said US companies. The extent that their success will trickle down to the common man in the nations who will benefit remains unclear and could be negligible given the way the economy is currently structured with vast supplies of cheap labor and automation factoring into the equation.
edit on 23-3-2014 by john452 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 12:43 AM
I can not wait untill the petro-dollar dies. I like what I see here.

posted on Mar, 23 2014 @ 04:48 AM
reply to post by mbkennel

You're making an awful lot of assumptions there.

In the end, all anyone says on this thread about what is going to happen or what is not going to happen is really nothing but pure speculation.

That being said, I think it is extremely naive to think that the western world is infallible in this matter and the dollar will just keep on keepin on indefinately.

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