Principal Fired For Telling Kids To Speak English at School

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Three generations? That's a bit over the top.... I have met legal immigrants from all over the world on the job sites. Most first generation immigrants knew enough english to hold a normal conversation, especially if it had to do with their trade. Germans, Russians, Swedes,Italians,Polish, you name it.

My grandparents on my father's side moved the family here, and all learned english. It was the only way to work. There were no translators like there is for spanish people today. There was a huge migration in the area of connecticut of people from canada, but it was not tolerated back then, even if there was a translator. Then again they were all legal, and not getting paid off the books, they got paid the same wages as everyone else. Times have changed I guess.

TKDRL
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Three generations? That's a bit over the top.... I have met legal immigrants from all over the world on the job sites. Most first generation immigrants knew enough english to hold a normal conversation, especially if it had to do with their trade. Germans, Russians, Swedes,Italians,Polish, you name it.

My grandparents on my father's side moved the family here, and all learned english. It was the only way to work. There were no translators like there is for spanish people today. There was a huge migration in the area of connecticut of people from canada, but it was not tolerated back then, even if there was a translator. Then again they were all legal, and not getting paid off the books, they got paid the same wages as everyone else. Times have changed I guess.

In this region, with the "immigrant" folks, they have had generation upon generation of family that worked in "la chope" (pronounced "la chop-ay") as seasonal migrant workers. You don't need to know English to do this work.

We have a rather large Mennonite population in the area. For the most part, they speak 2 languages: German and Spanish. They have been that way for several generations in this area. Over the last couple of generations more of them (primarily the men) deal more with the outside world and speak English.

I used to run a bilingual call center with an even split of english and spanish calls coming in. A very small amount of our spanish agents were ladies who had left the Mennonite life. They had poor English, but spoke outstanding Spanish. Blonde hair, blue eye, of German ancestry.

reply to post by Hillbilly123069


If its about culture, this can be corrected at the ground level. In Mexico; not Texas but Texas can work with the understanding of the below.

You guys google for a second the amount of native languages in Mexico. NATIVE languages.
That should be their first languages imho. (Some of you, in fact many of you "white" or otherwise already speak this )Second, Spanish (and why with respect for history and appreciation) Third English because of Mexicos shared border with the US (knowing why you should speak english, native tongue and spanish ect) Chicano studies ect. And of course Spain.
___________________________________________________________________________

Eh? That the students get an understanding of America, their cultures and the cultures they will be introduced to. But you guys have a little patience, Mexico and the southern states are like the rest of America. They have history too and trying to teach that in a way that does not promote an understanding and respect for cultures, in a way that does cannot be easy to do. Heck I have trouble with it myself sometimes.

Then you have this whole spanglish thing... sigh

Funny how you can get fired for insisting on an English Language Immersion approach, which is what this was, but it's perfectly fine to ban students from wearing the American flag.

I think for me there aren't enough details here to really know for sure what was going on. I think her intent was to get these kids truly bilingual as fast as possible. Most of them likely are coming out of homes and neighborhoods where they can avoid having to use any English at all if they want to. There are Spanish TV and radio stations now, Spanish language periodicals, bilingual signage is common, etc.

I'm guessing that the way this principal saw it, if she was going to try to do her job and get these kids and educated to a point where they could be functional in the wider world of the U.S., and not just their insular communities, English Language Immersion was the way to go because where else are they going to practice it?

reply to post by TKDRL


I don't understand what the hell is going on, we are the United States and for years everyone coming to this country of ours had to learn to speak the English language, but those liberals now have every written in other languages for them, lets pamper those poor folks, I don't understand.

I guess this video sums it up for me

19KTankCommander
reply to post by TKDRL

 

I don't understand what the hell is going on, we are the United States and for years everyone coming to this country of ours had to learn to speak the English language, but those liberals now have every written in other languages for them, lets pamper those poor folks, I don't understand.

I guess this video sums it up for me

How can I say this without being offensive or insensitive to you guys. I dont know that I can so as a pre-empt you know my intentions.
?The US wanted land and got it?

Simple enough?

19KTankCommander
reply to post by TKDRL

 

I don't understand what the hell is going on, we are the United States and for years everyone coming to this country of ours had to learn to speak the English language, but those liberals now have every written in other languages for them, lets pamper those poor folks, I don't understand.

I guess this video sums it up for me

Can you please provide any sort of documentation that people have ever been required to speak any particular language in america? thanks.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


The following states have existing official language laws on their books: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Wyoming. A small handful date back more than a few decades, such as Louisiana (1811) and Nebraska (1920).

reply to post by Nephalim


I guess this thread was about a Principal being fired for making students speak English. No one said anything about Land.

19KTankCommander
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

The following states have existing official language laws on their books: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Wyoming. A small handful date back more than a few decades, such as Louisiana (1811) and Nebraska (1920).

I am noting a lack of the word "Texas" in your list.

I'll also point out that the OP story happened in Houston, TX.

19KTankCommander
reply to post by Nephalim

 

I guess this thread was about a Principal being fired for making students speak English. No one said anything about Land.

The people are part of the land hence the language they speak becomes yours. So.. I dunno what to tell you.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Well didn't Texas try a few time to make English its language, If I recall back in 1995 when I lived down there they tried under Ann Richards. I guess the moral of the story if the teacher could only speak English and other students as well he should have the right to make sure that everyone speaks so everyone can understand what is being said.

reply to post by Nephalim


How do you feel when you can't understand what is being said, I still don't understand why you think this is a cultural issue, in a teaching environment you need one language so everyone can benefit from the lessons, in this case it was English, and to my point if most of us speak English why do we have to press 1?

19KTankCommander
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Well didn't Texas try a few time to make English its language, If I recall back in 1995 when I lived down there they tried under Ann Richards. I guess the moral of the story if the teacher could only speak English and other students as well he should have the right to make sure that everyone speaks so everyone can understand what is being said.

what you are talking about has very little to do with the conversation everyone else has. I don't think anyone but the hardiest of fools would argue with you that the classroom needs to have a single language environment. But the OP is talking about anywhere on campus.

In the restroom, on the playground, in the parking lot, in the hallways....in all non-educational areas.

So, before I go any further.....are you talking about the OP, or English in the classroom?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Sounds to me like the frustration of not knowing a second language.

Lots of folks out there dont understand our "Tejano culture" furry because they dont live here. Our kids speak whatever they want to speak and we all know everyone learns in english. What surprises me is that all of the teachers down here know this or should know this if they grew up here. I know you have to know this very well. Why all of a sudden is there some mandatory req for people to speak this or that. What business is it of the passerby what youre saying in spanish or english?

19KTankCommander
reply to post by Nephalim

 

How do you feel when you can't understand what is being said, I still don't understand why you think this is a cultural issue, in a teaching environment you need one language so everyone can benefit from the lessons, in this case it was English, and to my point if most of us speak English why do we have to press 1?

Generally Tank I dont care either way. I know both languages that are fluent down here well enough.

It is understandable for the kids to speak English while in class because there is a chance that the teacher may not speak Spanish but it makes no sense for the no Spanish on campus rule. Especially when the campus is predominantly Spanish.

Reply to - bigfatfurrytexan

This is known as "cultural bias".

Only if your Hispanic. I dont hear any other ethnicity crying out, America is a melting pot of languages and customs, yet only the Hispanics deem themselves so important that their language, which isnt the countries mother tongue, must over ride every other in the classroom.

The hispanic people have already had "white folk" declare their culture inferior and have it replaced once when they were Amerind people. Do we really need to do that again?

Nobody's commiting cultural genocide here...They WILLINGLY moved to America to look for a better life, so get with the programme and accept that lessons are taught in English.
Speak Spanish at home and in the street or the hall or wherever, but classes are taught in English.
Whos's saying their cultures inferior...what would a birthday party be without a piñata..

In general, you see a 3 generation span from immigration to assimilation. At least in this area. in 3 generations you typically end up having a set of parents that puts a kid through college. That is changing in more modern days, since you an't live here illegally as easily as you used to. But in the past, that is the way it typically was.

Here in Spain, assimilation is expected with the first generation..and in 95% of the cases it happens..and with pride. Although there are always odd cases.
In school the kids learn the local dialect Catalán, then Spanish and then English. In the school yard they speak Spanish, everyone, kids from Rumania, Bulgaria, Morrocos, England, China, Venezuela, Colombia, Dominican Republic and the Sub Sahara.

Nobody, but nobody complains and of they do..well, "The door you come through to enter Spain is the same one you can shut on the way out."

Why is it that only the Hispanics have a problem? Why wait 60 years (3 generations) to be a productive and assimilated member of society.

andy1972
Reply to - bigfatfurrytexan

Only if your Hispanic. I dont hear any other ethnicity crying out, America is a melting pot of languages and customs, yet only the Hispanics deem themselves so important that their language, which isnt the countries mother tongue, must over ride every other in the classroom.

Andy, if we are going to move the goalposts here the topic being only "in the classroom", then i think we are done. Because only a fool would argue against having language being consistent to the audience. Meaning that you teach in Spanish in an ESL program so as to teach the kids English while they learn their curriculum. That aside...this discussion is only of scant relationship to the classroom, and focuses more on every other part of the school, where language shouldn't matter (did you read the link in the OP? I ask because you are missing 2 key parts: that the principle is a female, and that she decreed that Spanish was banned anywhere on campus).

Nobody's commiting cultural genocide here...They WILLINGLY moved to America to look for a better life, so get with the programme and accept that lessons are taught in English.
Speak Spanish at home and in the street or the hall or wherever, but classes are taught in English.
Whos's saying their cultures inferior...what would a birthday be without a piñata..

I will quickly point out to you that we are not talking about the classroom (again).

Beyond that, do you have any idea how many folks I know who speak little to no English, and were born here in the US? Their family was residents of this state before the Europeans ever "discovered" America. I don't think they came anywhere. That segment aside, the vast majority are immigrants. But if we are making education compulsory, then it is the duty of the educators to find a way to educate, regardless of language. That is why we have ESL. Which should put an end to your discussion about the classroom.

Now, to tell a child that he cannot talk to his siblings at school in their primary language is...cultural bias.

Here in Spain, assimilation is expected with the first generation..and in 95% of the cases it happens..and with pride. Although there are always odd cases.
In school the kids learn the local dialect Catalán, then Spanish and then English. In the school yard they speak Spanish, everyone, kids from Rumania, Bulgaria, Morrocos, England, China, Venezuela, Colombia, Dominican Republic and the Sub Sahara.

Nobody, but nobody complains and of they do..well, "The door you come through to enter Spain is the same one you can shut on the way out."

Why is it that only the Hispanics have a problem? Why wait 60 years (3 generations) to be a productive and assimilated member of society.

edit on AM5Fri20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

I am the third generation in the US in my family (Hungarian immigrants). Our family assimilated very quickly, fueled by the general notion of the European mindset of nationality and borders. It is not uncommon for the cramped quarters of Europe to see multilingual people. Your nations have been so intermingled for so long, while keeping languages generally apart.

But it was Spain who sent people to Mexico. To force them to lose their culture. To force them to quit speaking their language. To force them to abandon their gods. I am unsurprised to hear how little Spain, in current times, undervalues cultural diversity. The remnants of that viewpoint happen to be the topic of this very thread.

Nephalim
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Sounds to me like the frustration of not knowing a second language.

Lots of folks out there dont understand our "Tejano culture" furry because they dont live here. Our kids speak whatever they want to speak and we all know everyone learns in english. What surprises me is that all of the teachers down here know this or should know this if they grew up here. I know you have to know this very well. Why all of a sudden is there some mandatory req for people to speak this or that. What business is it of the passerby what youre saying in spanish or english?

edit on 20-3-2014 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)

over the last 20 years, I have noticed that we have a lot of eastern Indian chatter going on, as more and more Indians immigrate into the area.

They all speak fairly good English (most speak it impeccably, but some are very hard to understand), but amongst themselves will speak whatever Indian language they use primarily. These old rednecks around here don't even bat an eye. They are used to it, if they don't know Spanish.