Sanction tit-for-tat: Moscow strikes back against US officials

reply to post by Speotyto

All for show till the showdown?

And re: link...geez...just how many credit cards does the U.S. have?

greencmp
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Uh oh, you mean we will have to do without Russian imports? Touche!

Aside from the money US owes Russia (about 160 billion USD - see here link), what about the Soyuz ?

That a very important Russian item the US can't live without.

Honestly ? I think this should end here, it's not even more a question of who is right or wrong, this has to end or this will go very bad. Let Russia have Crimea in return for a deal not to attack Ukraine. This would be the best end for this crisis the way I see it.

Cheers,

Speotyto
what would happen if Russia where to withdraw that money ? Honestly, moratorium and loss of credibility (on a good scenario).

Probably about the same thing which has happened since Germany asked for their Gold back.

One can make the request for a transaction and the transaction can happen. I'd say there can be a world separating those two things at times....like when Russia tries to work with some things there actually is some US control over.

Until or Unless of course, we come to find out at some point that Russia isn't quite as challenged for allies as it might first appear. Time will tell....

~Lucidity
reply to post by Speotyto

 

All for show till the showdown?

And re: link...geez...just how many credit cards does the U.S. have?

I really don't know how many, but I do know the US shouldn't have sold those credit cards for unfriendly countries, considering it can't be paid back.

Regards,

Wrabbit2000

Speotyto
what would happen if Russia where to withdraw that money ? Honestly, moratorium and loss of credibility (on a good scenario).

Probably about the same thing which has happened since Germany asked for their Gold back.

One can make the request for a transaction and the transaction can happen. I'd say there can be a world separating those two things at times....like when Russia tries to work with some things there actually is some US control over.

Until or Unless of course, we come to find out at some point that Russia isn't quite as challenged for allies as it might first appear. Time will tell....

I don't want to antagonize your view, but Russia is not Germany. You can say "Germany, please stop asking us for that gold, we're friends, let's talk and etc...", but can you do that to Russia ? I mean, if Germany really wanted that gold back and kept on insisting, things would've been different... Russia wouldn't be as nice as Germany, I'm sure.

I said before in another comment, this is the time to end this crisis. There's simply no good possible outcome but ending the way it is IMO.

Cheers

reply to post by Speotyto

I said before in another comment, this is the time to end this crisis. There's simply no good possible outcome but ending the way it is IMO.

That I can agree with, 100%

Nothing good comes from this confrontation of nations, no matter how it turns out, if it's not de-escalated. I just don't see many cooler heads. I see some so thick by hubris, they could head butt through concrete, but the cooler variety seems distinctly lacking, just now.

stumason

ArchAngel_X
I don't support Russia regarding the annexation of Crimea, but being financially punished by the United States over aggressions and policies they themselves are guilty of - but were never held to account for - is just too much for me to digest.

I must have missed it in the news, but when did the US annex another countries territory?

Hello!!!!! Try doing some research before searching your mind for historical reference and then claiming to find no evidence.

It's called T-E-X-A-S, maybe you've heard of it?

It became filled with anglo settlers who were initially invited and given land grants by the Mexican government. The settlers proceeded to accept the land grants yet later refused to hold up their side of the agreement which was to learn Spanish, AND adopt Catholicism as well as Mexico city as their centralist authority. After 10 or so years of being an independent state and becoming saturated with anglo settlers who proceeded to kick out Tejanos (native Texans of Mexican descent) with intense racism, TEXAS was subsequently annexed by the United States in 1846. End of history lesson.


DENY IGNORANCE

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


It got worse.

AAC

tinner07
I don't know why the US is in such an uproar. If anything we should place sanctions on the Ukraine and Crimea for violating the civil rights of the undocumented workers that have crossed their border.

We should demand they be given free housing and free medical care as well as voting rights.


Not sure the national language of the Ukraine but they should start to transfer the the native language of the invaders, hate to make them feel unwelcomed. Also stop flying their nations flag lest the invaders feel unwelcomed.

The Ukraine should also offer food stamps to them and label anybody that opposes them a racist.

Thats what we demand when a neighboring country invades our borders.

You are a racist and deserve to be labeled as one, how about you learn some history there first before going off on a tangent simply to offend an entire group of peoples? Oh wait that would mean you would be open minded, tolerant, and oh yeah not a racist. I find it disheartening that bigots like you still exist in this beautiful country.

Maybe these "invaders" wouldn't need foodstamps and free health care IF THEIR LAND GRANTS HAD BEEN KEPT VALID AS THE USA SAID THEY WOULD BE AFTER THE MEXICAN AMERICAN WAR, AS OPPOSED TO BLATANTLY OMITTING THE ARTICLE X OF THE TREATY OF GUADALUPE HIDALGO WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO GIVE MEXICANS FULL VOTING AND CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS, INSTEAD FORCING THE (mixed race) MEXICANS TO LEAVE CALIFORNIA AND TEXAS AND THEN HAVING THE GALL TO CALL THEM INVADERS NOT EVEN MORE THAN 150 YEARS LATER as you are doing now. If the Mexicans were allowed to properly thrive as the US promised to do before James K Polk changed his mind, then they'd have the ability to support themselves and would have much deeper roots in the founding of this country. As things stand, the American elite have from the get go designed American society to operate under a double standard founded on ignorance, favoring the dominant group, wealthy white men.

I don't ever react this way but oh my god I have had enough of racists taking the first opportunity to spew their hate against an entire peoples. Makes me sick. People like you are the reason America became divided in the first place. I bet if you were alive 50 years ago you would have been making back handed remarks against blacks as well.

If I spoke ill of whites I'd be censored right away, oh and by the way I myself am white so don't bother responding with anymore racist remarks.

DENY IGNORANCE

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


I just don't go along with the sanctions doing anything but both amusing and perhaps, slightly annoying Putin. This wasn't spontaneous from either America or Russia. Putin and the core of the Russian power structure would have sorted this out among themselves well ahead of time.

Whatever we can do? They can do. If sanctions wouldn't bother us? It won't bother them. If nothing else, Russia's debt load is among the lowest of the major powers and by an absurd range at that. Russia could simply replace whatever losses anyone on an American sanctions list sustains, in real time if it suits them, and heck.. Putin could even make a running counter of it, since he seems to enjoy making a fool of Obama in comments. He wasn't kind with his own assessment of sanctions. While he's at it, he could really toy with the Diamond market just for spare change and laughs at the Western reaction or the Gold market, for similar reasons. We aren't in sole power here, for a real change. An important one, I think.

Why should Putin care though?

Look at much much smaller nations. Did sanctions work against Saddam? Err... Nope. Still had to go back to the same place, and make sure we made the mistake they refused to make the first time. Did sanctions work against Cuba? Err... not even worth going there. It did get Libya's attention, but Gadaffi still outlived our President and in power, no less. We could go with who is President in Nicaragua ..but..err..

Wow, yeah, that foreign policy of ours has been beating against a rocky shoreline for awhile now. The 'ol USS Ship of State is in pretty sorry shape, in my opinion. We need to get our own house in order. I'm starting to feel almost Roman, in a bad way.

reply to post by JosephJohnson


See previous post on page 2 in reference to 19th century behaviour. Hardly relevant in the 21st century, is it? Back then, in the 1830's & 40's, the US still had slaves for crying out loud - different times.

If you're going to try and formulate an even slightly worthwhile argument, the only relevant period for comparison is post WW2 and the post-UN formation. Prior to that it was still the age of Empires and colonialism, it's like comparing the Tudor period in England to the Norman invasion - pointless.

EDIT: And I don't need a history lesson, so get off your high horse and stop being such a sanctimonious whiner.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Excellent post CE.....+S&F on me!

Unfortunately the actions of the US and their allies (including, to our eternal shame, the UK) have set new precedents in the 'Great Game'.....By displaying that major players in fact can trample all over the sovereignty of lesser nations, we literally gave Putin license to act and by meddling in the Ukraine (ie: on Russia's doorstep) we gave him the incentive.

I'm more than willing to bet that Putin could easily beat any of the other G8 leaders (and/or their financial backers) at chess.....They don't take inbred dilettantes in the KGB.

'Grand Chessboard' my ass.....Should stick to chequers!

Wrabbit2000

Speotyto
what would happen if Russia where to withdraw that money ? Honestly, moratorium and loss of credibility (on a good scenario).

Probably about the same thing which has happened since Germany asked for their Gold back.

One can make the request for a transaction and the transaction can happen. I'd say there can be a world separating those two things at times....like when Russia tries to work with some things there actually is some US control over.

Until or Unless of course, we come to find out at some point that Russia isn't quite as challenged for allies as it might first appear. Time will tell....

So when the Chinese want their money back the US is going give them the finger as well? Then why bother? The Chinese must be stupid

reply to post by Reinmax


What do you imagine the U.S. could pay China right now, in all seriousness, if they flooded the market with their treasury holdings and other intergovernmental debt? There are things which are supposed to prevent that, I believe, but if they did say "Hey, pay me. Now please. Face Value." We could give them around a trillion in OTHER treasury notes we call cash...instead of the big notes they hold now.

If it came to that? Offering them paper for paper would be giving them the bird...and the U.S. couldn't make physical representation of a trillion dollars any other way, which doesn't involve silly schemes of inflating something to make it so. (I'm thinking back to the 'trillion dollar coin' idea they actually talked about at one stage for floating the budget in 2011).

I don't think anyone is stupid, but I think a few different things have happened in the shadows, perhaps not even connected, which include some awfully good questions about where the United States and National holdings of Gold are. Even nations don't get to see their own, it seems. That stinks for suggesting an issue in there. It's only one example of a major one.

I think the nations have kinda found themselves in a position where no one gets out of the room without being real badly wounded, if anyone shoots first.....but everyone really wants to. Something like that more than planned quite this way.

Cant everyone put a ban on giving McCain a travel visa? Pretty please?

stumason

ArchAngel_X
I don't support Russia regarding the annexation of Crimea, but being financially punished by the United States over aggressions and policies they themselves are guilty of - but were never held to account for - is just too much for me to digest.

I must have missed it in the news, but when did the US annex another countries territory?

They havent directly annexed but they are in the buisness of invading countrys and bombing them into the stone age based on lies.

This is not tit for tat it's toe to toe and since the USA has put it's toe in the ring by attacking the Ukraine using paid thugs then Mr Putin has every right to step into the ring and give the worlds bully boy the old left hook.

Whats funny is these teams of thugs that all teamed up and took money from the west to seize power are now fighting between themselves in the Ukraine but you can be sure that it's all going to be Putin's fault and you can also be sure that the right wing element will loose

Can we start fracking now that we are building up force to defend ourselves and might need the gas because that's the next little stunt you will be hearing on the news.

Bankers are behind it all

reply to post by VirusGuard


Well just look at Syria. The majority of the insurgency there are Saudi, Qatari, Libyan, Chechen, African, French, British, Australian, etc. It was always financially backed by the Saudis and the UAE, and logistically supported the the west.

After almost 3 years of that war, well over 100,000 people have been killed. The Syrian forces always had popular support, and have lately been liberating most urban centres from insurgents. Kurds have buttoned downed the insurgency in the northern regions.

Meanwhile, the fanatical insurgents always resort to ultra violence and terror. And for the most part, factional divisions have led to the insurgents fighting amongst themselves more than against the government. Sometimes Turkey and Israel have to carry out some strikes against the Syrian military just to keep these mercinaries in check.

But look at the mainstream narrative now. Last time the mainstream media focused on Syria, they were claiming that Assad was responsible for bombing his people with "barrel bombs". I still have not discovered what these "barrel bombs" are or why a modern Syrian Air Force supplied by the Russians would be dropping improvised explosive barrels from combat jets, as opposed to the bombs that they are designed to carry. But this was the media's way of saying that Assad is still the bad guy.

reply to post by crazyewok


But they go home at the end of it and leave the country to it's own devices?

It's one thing to bomb a country, it's another to invade and take it over, stick your flag in and declare it "yours". It's sooooo "19th century"....