It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why does the Religious Right vote and fight against Social Mercy? (revised title)

page: 2
8
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 11:17 AM
link   
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 



I believe the problem is not that Christians do not understand what you are saying, it is just that you do not understand a Christians world view.

I was raised in America. I live in the center of the country - and I dare say I do understand Christian's worldview...
which is why I'm compelled to figure out what is hampering them from voting in favor of Christianity's stated values.

The Pope gets it; I get the Pope's worldview (and I like it).

I'm specifically talking about the Right Wing hatred of and refusal to acknowledge social programs and justice. What is their moral reason for allowing their neighbors to go hungry and uneducated?

edit on 3/20/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 11:23 AM
link   
reply to post by Bone75
 



this is nothing more than another gutless attack campaign that doesn't deserve anymore input from me

Gutless attack campaign?

Mmm. I thought it was quite interesting. So, as a Christian then, you find it a gutless attack and unworthy of your attention. No merit to the ideas presented?

Why is it gutless to point out something out of balance? Oh well, i guess you're not going to answer. Good day to you as well, then.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 11:24 AM
link   

Words
I think it is fairly obvious that no god is required to be good. A god has never manifested, yet good and evil show up countless times, regardless of denomination.

People will believe anything, and they do, but their beliefs offer nothing in terms of any morality, which were obviously practiced before tablets and doctrines fell out of the sky. Are we to think that before certain gods ordered "Thou Shalt", people were raping and killing each other at whim? Of course not. People need only read the philosophers to show that morality was the game of the thinker, and not the believer.





A God has never manifested? Can you prove to me Jesus of Nazareth was not the Creator of the Universe in the flesh? No you are not supposed to believe everyone was just raping and killing, but commandments did come from the sky. The Zodiac is a perversion of something known as the Hebrew Mazzoroth. Each star in each constellation of the Zodiac has a name and it tells a story. It is how Abraham and them taught their children about God.

If there is no God how do you even trust your own thoughts? They are in reality just bits of energy created through chemical means. If they are just unguided mindless processes why should I believe anything you say is true or anything I think is true?



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 11:38 AM
link   

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Bone75
 



this is nothing more than another gutless attack campaign that doesn't deserve anymore input from me

Gutless attack campaign?

Mmm. I thought it was quite interesting. So, as a Christian then, you find it a gutless attack and unworthy of your attention. No merit to the ideas presented?

Why is it gutless to point out something out of balance? Oh well, i guess you're not going to answer. Good day to you as well, then.


And that right there is the problem. It is easier to bury your head in the sand than realize that there are no "good" options for a Christian voter. And I do have sympathy for them in that sense.

One party embodies many of the basic notions of Jesus yet are against the Church. The other party is against the words of Jesus but they are, on the face of things, with the church. The "church" body is alive and kicking and, most importantly, making money and voting. Jesus? Not so much.

Who do you think the Christians will be forced to vote for? Certainly not that broke ass Jesus. But his church... now those guys have some pull. And the guns. And the oil. Etc.

It's no wonder the average American Christian puts their fingers in their ears and tunes the world out.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 11:41 AM
link   
reply to post by Bone75
 





...without a belief in God (big G), I probably would have killed a whole lotta people by now....


That... is really troubling me right now...



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 11:42 AM
link   

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 



I believe the problem is not that Christians do not understand what you are saying, it is just that you do not understand a Christians world view.

I was raised in America. I live in the center of the country - and I dare say I do understand Christian's worldview...
which is why I'm compelled to figure out what is hampering them from voting in favor of Christianity's stated values.

The Pope gets it; I get the Pope's worldview (and I like it).

I'm specifically talking about the Right Wing hatred of and refusal to acknowledge social programs and justice. What is their moral reason for allowing their neighbors to go hungry and uneducated?

edit on 3/20/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)


Just because you know Christians and have seen Churches doesn't mean you know the Christian World View. You still don't seem to get that they don't call atheist immoral, but that they call everyone including themselves sinners. Which means at some point in time we are immoral even by our own judgments. Does that mean you cannot be a "Good" person by societies standards, not at all.


"I'm specifically talking about the Right Wing hatred of and refusal to acknowledge social programs and justice. What is their moral reason for allowing their neighbors to go hungry and uneducated? "

Elaborate on this a little bit. It seems to me like you are implying your average day Christian has any influence in politics. You do realize that the publics votes don't really mean anything? That who get put into office is who TPTB put there?



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 11:49 AM
link   
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 



Elaborate on this a little bit. It seems to me like you are implying your average day Christian has any influence in politics. You do realize that the publics votes don't really mean anything? That who get put into office is who TPTB put there?

Well. First of all, I am not lumping all average day Christians into the mix; I am addressing the Hardcore Right Wingers - and there are some in politics (Bachmann, Brownback, and others), and there are some in so-called journalism (Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh), as well as there are many televangelists (Robertson and others).

Yes, I realize that the 'elected' are predetermined by TPTB. (Or voter fraud and the like).

Public votes/opinions don't mean much to them, maybe, but those votes/opinions certainly do muddy the waters and pull us (the citizenry) apart. The frightening part is that there are people like those mentioned above who stoke that fire and are pushing for a Theocracy while dismantling social programs, and it's a nonsequitor.

I also realize it is only that portion of Christians that are the loudest and most ferociously opposed to anything progressive or humanitarian across the board.

I tried to clean up the OP for my point to be better illustrated. Does the Christian worldview not, then, instruct to care for the needy? That being a rhetorical question, of course: yes it does.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 11:57 AM
link   
the problem is the Right is pandering,

They only care they "appear" christian, no more.


One verse of the bible says it all.

"what you did to the least of these you did to me."

Its really that simple for a Christian, No food stamps for the starving? No aid for the Poor? No health care for those that can't afford it because it takes from them...

Every "christian" Republican needs to remember Christ Views on these issues.

ETA:

ANd I consider myself Libertarian, Some times people need to understand their religious views directly oppose political ones.
edit on 20-3-2014 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 12:09 PM
link   

benrl

"what you did to the least of these you did to me."




That is simultaneously the most important and most ignored scripture in the bible.


For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’


This in no uncertain terms COMMANDS Christians to treat everybody they meet as they would treat Jesus, himself. If only...



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 12:09 PM
link   
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 





A God has never manifested? Can you prove to me Jesus of Nazareth was not the Creator of the Universe in the flesh?


Why would I need to? You have not proven the opposite. If all that is required for proof is that one claims he is divine, all I need for proof is to claim that he is not.


No you are not supposed to believe everyone was just raping and killing, but commandments did come from the sky. The Zodiac is a perversion of something known as the Hebrew Mazzoroth. Each star in each constellation of the Zodiac has a name and it tells a story. It is how Abraham and them taught their children about God.


Actually, it is the man, not the stars, who tells the story. Through fictional accounts and interpretations is how Abraham taught his children about God. Stars are incapable of creating and dispensing commandments.



If there is no God how do you even trust your own thoughts? They are in reality just bits of energy created through chemical means. If they are just unguided mindless processes why should I believe anything you say is true or anything I think is true?


We already do. If one requires lying to himself in order to trust himself, I don't see how that person can be trusted at all.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 12:12 PM
link   
reply to post by BuzzyWigs
 


No you don't need god to be a good or moral person. What is the difference between "God" and "god" anyway?

One of the reasons the folks being discussed (the poor) may not accept the help(such as expanded Medicaid) from democrats is because that's the same party that is saying "You must also accept the gay people" or some other factor that runs smack into their religious beliefs. Will never work as those folks will not align with what they see as the devil.

FWIW, the democrat party of today is nothing like the democrat party of the 1960's. Totally different animal, same with the republicans.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 12:13 PM
link   
reply to post by benrl
 



One verse of the bible says it all.

"what you did to the least of these you did to me."

Its really that simple for a Christian, No food stamps for the starving? No aid for the Poor? No health care for those that can't afford it because it takes from them...

Yes, that! Maybe where the term 'rabble-rouser' comes from would be people like those politicians and journalists...

going back to Servant's post - It isn't that I don't get the Christian morals (because I do, and your phrase above is the perfect example.) So if, as Servant says, we are all sinners, okay...(I don't buy into that, really, but for purposes of discussion let's accept it as their premise) - does that mean those of us who don't profess that Jesus alone is the way, are just as likely to sin, but impossibly far from ever being accepted by God?

That seems to skirt the issue as well.

Thanks for your contribution to the clarity of the thread. I'm a voter, but unaffiliated. Gary Johnson would have been my 2012 choice among the crummy choices.
I had Ron Paul signs in my yard, but took them down when the Tea Party started going mad (in my opinion, anyway).
Can't vote for what seems crazy and unjust.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 12:13 PM
link   


Well. First of all, I am not lumping all average day Christians into the mix; I am addressing the Hardcore Right Wingers - and there are some in politics (Bachmann, Brownback, and others), and there are some in so-called journalism (Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh), as well as there are many televangelists (Robertson and others).
reply to post by BuzzyWigs
 


Once again you are taking the view the media wants you to take of a Christian. Why do you think the media puts that kind of stuff on the forefront instead of telling us about Christians giving medicine to people in need around the world or feeding kids in Africa. Or building houses for people who have lost there things in a natural disaster. Why? Because TPTB are theistic satanist. Plenty of evidence for that. They own the media and the music industry, so very rarely should you expect to see something positive about Christians from the mainstream media.

I could go and find atheist who aren't doing the world any good by their agendas and what they are pushing for the public, but would that prove anything about an atheist no. I just think that this kind of argument takes away from the important things like what is Truth? Why are we here? Does life have purpose? Is this life all there is? Why are we nitpicking about things we have no control over. Its better to accept what is and allow the flow of time continue as it has already be written.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 12:16 PM
link   
reply to post by Bassago
 



FWIW, the democrat party of today is nothing like the democrat party of the 1960's. Totally different animal, same with the republicans.

Exactly. I was raised during the 60s and 70s - my dad was a business owner and employer, and voted Republican. It wasn't until I learned much later in grad school about the flip - how the parties have swapped tenets. Bizarre, truly.

Shows to go ya, you can't trust a label. Nor a politician or even a journalist anymore!!
It's no wonder that so many don't pay attention. It hurts.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 12:21 PM
link   
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 



Why? Because TPTB are theistic satanist.

What?

So, you're saying that TPTB allow those inflammatory stories to go up even if there's no legitimacy in the stories?

It's a divide and conquer campaign, then. And it's working.

Please, ServantOfTheLamb, do not speak to me as though I am new to the world; I'm aware of the charitable things that Christians do, certainly. But also aware of the damage they do, like Scott Lively for example. I'd appreciate it if you let me tell you what I don't understand, rather than you telling me. I'm not afraid to raise my hand and ask questions.

(Much to the chagrine of the teachers and class - no doubt.)



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 12:37 PM
link   
What is gobsmacking about this scenario?
It pretty common knowledge that religion is a tool of control.
Is it so surprising that the poorest are programmed to blame a boogeyman for their condition instead of the real causes?
God is used throughout history by the various priesthoods to milk the masses.....



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 12:41 PM
link   
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb
 



Why are we nitpicking about things we have no control over. Its better to accept what is and allow the flow of time continue as it has already be written.

But we do have control over whether people starve to death or not.
I agree with you that those questions you asked are the deeper ones.
But I'm not about to just fling my hands in the air and stop asking about why, in the meantime, this is being allowed to happen.

MLK Jr:

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 12:43 PM
link   
reply to post by stirling
 



What is gobsmacking about this scenario?
It pretty common knowledge that religion is a tool of control.

Agreed, whole-heartedly. It can also be a tool used for comfort in times of despair or confusion, though.

The gobsmacking part is that people aren't capable of seeing through it, I guess.
But then again....
not everyone sees the whole picture, or wants to.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 12:49 PM
link   
"Why would I need to? You have not proven the opposite. If all that is required for proof is that one claims he is divine, all I need for proof is to claim that he is not. "

I don't just claim it. I was giving you an opportunity to present some evidence that he wasn't a God. You claimed no God existed I just wanted to see the evidence. What evidence do I have? The Resurrection. Even some of the most skeptical historians agree there is compelling historical evidence for the Resurrection.


"Actually, it is the man, not the stars, who tells the story. Through fictional accounts and interpretations is how Abraham taught his children about God. Stars are incapable of creating and dispensing commandments. "

Those names we taught by God. I take that on faith of course and you are entitled to your opinion from there. To close off the Idea of a superior Creator that loves us is close minded, just like it would be close minded for me to ignore the possibility that I am wrong. Do I believe I am wrong? Not at all. Is there a possibility ? yes.


"We already do. If one requires lying to himself in order to trust himself, I don't see how that person can be trusted at all. "

Are you saying we already believe unguided mindless processes and we are just dancing to our DNA? That does not fit the way the world seems to work to me.




My opinion is that you believe because your body is not you. What YOU is can be considered the "Ghost in the Machine." The One that perceives is you. Your Body and all of Matter according to Quantum Physics is just an illusion. Everything we see around us is made up of bits of information, like a hologram of sorts. This information that makes up everything you see is connected to you through this hologram of information we call the universe. The entire system has what is called a semiotic dimension. When a person sees something that carries semiotic dimension they always infer a top-down causation. Meaning as you read the words of this post you immediately infer that the complex thoughts written down were the product of the creative mind of ServantOfTheLamb. At no point in time would you see these words and assume they arose from random physical and chemical reactions. Yet for some reason you see that everything in the world is made up of information that carries meaning and don't infer a top-down causation ? Why? If you were to do that with any other semiotic dimension on Earth you would sound insane.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 01:22 PM
link   


going back to Servant's post - It isn't that I don't get the Christian morals (because I do, and your phrase above is the perfect example.) So if, as Servant says, we are all sinners, okay...(I don't buy into that, really, but for purposes of discussion let's accept it as their premise) - does that mean those of us who don't profess that Jesus alone is the way, are just as likely to sin, but impossibly far from ever being accepted by God?
reply to post by BuzzyWigs
 



That is not what it means at all friend. What it means it you have a choice to make. God is Love. This is a hard thing for me to describe because no word really describes Love accept for Love itself, however Altruism is the best definition of Love that I can give. Sin and immorality is the opposite of altruism the opposite of love. At some point in time we are selfish and non-altruistic even by our own standards. I am sure there are times you could have chose an altruistic route but instead chose one that benefit you more than another. Some psychologist say there is no such thing as true altruism in humans. That everything we do is done with the idea that it will some how be reciprocated in the future. So really what humans participate in is reciprocal altruism rather than pure altruism. That being said how do you not agree that you are by definition a sinner, and how do not agree that every human at some point in time is immoral by their own standards. So are you impossibly far from being accepted by God? No. All you have to do is accept him. Its a choice between altruism and evil. Accept that you cannot be altruistic in nature all the time and that God needs to make you that way. The way he did this was by making peace with us be taking the punishment upon a part of himself because he Loves us. So you are definitely not impossibly far away from being accepted by God you choose not to accepted into God's grace. Christians say ok God thank you for taking the punishment deserved to me, and he says your welcome I did it because I love you. We chose to accept that he saved us from punishment we deserved. Atheist and Agnostics and Other religions choose to accept that punishment themselves.



new topics

top topics



 
8
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join