'Shhh, don't say 'poverty''

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posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 06:20 AM
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Came across this article which raises some good points,


Originally posted by New York Times
...more than 12 million American families continue to struggle, and not always successfully, to feed themselves.

The 12 million families represent 11.2 percent of all U.S. households. "At some time during the year," the report said, "these households were uncertain of having, or unable to acquire, enough food for all their members because they had insufficient money or other resources."

Of the 12 million families that worried about putting food on the table, 3.9 million had members who actually went hungry at some point last year. "The other two-thirds ... obtained enough food to avoid hunger using a variety of coping strategies," the report said, "such as eating less varied diets, participating in federal food assistance programs, or getting emergency food from community food pantries or emergency kitchens."

Franklin Roosevelt, in his second Inaugural Address, told a rain-soaked crowd, "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."

I can hear the politicians in today's Washington having a hearty laugh at that sentiment.

Source


After looking at the figures presented in the article, do you feel that the current administration is justified in sending the millions upon millions of dollars in foriegn aid abroad when so many of the American citizens are struggling to feed themselves. Shouldn't charity start at home? Discuss.




posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by New York Times
...more than 12 million American families continue to struggle, and not always successfully, to feed themselves...


Franklin Roosevelt, in his second Inaugural Address, told a rain-soaked crowd, "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."

I can hear the politicians in today's Washington having a hearty laugh at that sentiment.


This moves or motivates no fiscal conservative in the modern definition of the ideology, which is to eradicate any remnants of FDR and the Great Society of America. The "proud" concept of personal responsiblity is really nothing more than a statement of you're on your own or, in a very perverse way, survival of the fitting in. "Fitting in" rather than fittest since the new Theocratic leadership of the moral authoritarians have no problem funding and feeding the hungry as long as it goes through a "faith based" program for ideology dissemination.

Didn't you know Jesus loves you? Love him back or starve. The melting pot concept then is more about blending and homogeny, than welcomed diversity.

But it's not like they really care or share the beliefs they support. It's about power, and a unified, satiated, homogenous people are just much easier to subjugate. Can you imagine anyone believing they're doing well working at WalMart and raising more WalMart workers simply because the most popular cable news channel tells them they're doing super and their "President" attends the same kind of church they do and also likes NASCAR?

We're in an engineered dollar decline to rebalance the world for homogony as well. Most Americans needed the forced xenophobia to assist in not noticing how much their standard of living has declined. It's amazing what people are willing to support for perceived power. They'll endores their own lessening with a deeper division in the two Americas if they believe their "values" are winning. Some majority, slim as it is...51% combined of God only knows how many wedges shoving us further down an almost irreversible path toward the one world, NWO where the America of you and I is a third world worker base (on equal footing with China, India, Mexico...the world) for it's own blue state power cabal.

That's right blue state. It's amazing. All the red states just keep voting to put NYC in charge over and over and only the people that live there get it. Not all. Some of us down here in trailor land know better.

Starvation sounds better and better. I want to start getting paid in Euros. Imagine 50 more years of this. I can hardly imagine four.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 08:54 AM
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Well I for one am living in poverty. It's a fact of my life. And to be completely honest with you, poverty is not so bad. What we deemed as 'poverty' could easily pass for middle-class in much of the world.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by Simulacra
Well I for one am living in poverty. It's a fact of my life. And to be completely honest with you, poverty is not so bad. What we deemed as 'poverty' could easily pass for middle-class in much of the world.


So, whats your point? Do you vote conservative to keep your poverty?



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by DrSpeedo
So, whats your point? Do you vote conservative to keep your poverty?


I don't consider my vote conservative or liberal. My decision is not marginalized by two opposing sides. I vote to better my life.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by Simulacra
I don't consider my vote conservative or liberal. My decision is not marginalized by two opposing sides. I vote to better my life.


I get your point


Anyway, I dont get the politics In US (refering to last election)....
Gaymarrige etc is considered more important then poverty.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 09:16 AM
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I aggre with simulary I for one dont mind living in poverty here in florida .
Isent it strange I live in goverment defined poverty but yet mannage to be buying a home and have a car and even the LUCURY of a pc.
but yes I scrape every cent to do this and have NO cusshion at all .If I am unable to get the money owed to me TODAY my car has no gas left and I have no money for any and this is true right at this minit I wating on 130 pm for my PAY check from the job I just started to come in the mail .ITS a week late already.
but to be real if I dont get this money at this point it just means im stuck to december untill I get oether money then I start again.
so it would be a week of being stuck withing walking distence .Im very carefull with food and mange it down to the crumb and have only ever had 1 month in ten years agaio were my kids went hungry and boy that scared me but good so I quickly manged to mange better.
Bought a big frezzer so in the times when I have exter money .(once everother month or so . I stock up big time.
and of corse income tax at my age helps thats usaly enough money to buy fix cars once a year and even through a tv or pc or nitanido on top for kids to boot.
Ps Im lucky though Im a macanic fix cars tv no problem vcr dvd player and even fix my own pc so my cost is very very low to mantain the stuff I buy.
its no problem for me to be able to rebuild an intire car from the ground up if nessery. Have an 85 chevy cappras station wagon loooks and runs like new even cold air .
but parts are cheep its the laber that cost $$$$$ .and I can eather FIX the parts or buy new part and replace it .
opps rambling sorry lol



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 09:33 AM
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In this country it is always your own fault if you're starveing or poor. I don't know how this idea became so pervasive with people but I've noticed that's how it is for the most part.
The poor are looked down on. I'd rather my tax dollars went to social programs that prevent poverty. Like education and houseing, not foreign interests.
It would be wonderful if college were free to any u.s. citizen.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by elaine
I'd rather my tax dollars went to social programs that prevent poverty. Like education and houseing, not foreign interests.
It would be wonderful if college were free to any u.s. citizen.


Keep the people poor, give the taxmoney to weapon factorys and send the poor and uneducated to the army, its devilish genious!



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Simulacra

Originally posted by DrSpeedo
So, whats your point? Do you vote conservative to keep your poverty?


I don't consider my vote conservative or liberal. My decision is not marginalized by two opposing sides. I vote to better my life.
So, you voted Bush?



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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All I can say is that I agree with Elaine in our country if you are poor or needy you are either lazy or you wants to leave on the government and the reason of this views are rooted into the mind of the population to find excuses as why in a county that is supposed to be "wealthy" we still have poverty.

Yes poverty is in the rasing and more and more children are born into it.

Our nation is facing a crisis of its own and most people is just waiting when it becomes so obvious that it could not be denied any longer.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by elaine
In this country it is always your own fault if you're starveing or poor.



Originally posted by marg6043
All I can say is that I agree with Elaine in our country if you are poor or needy you are either lazy or you wants to leave on the government ...


Spoken like people who have never had to struggle to put food on their children's plates.

A family that is neither lazy nor wanting to live off the gov't can and do struggle with poverty.

A single job family of 5 (Father, Wife, 3 kids) lives in poverty if the provider works a 40 hour week for less than 9.93 an hour. Or with multiple jobs at minimum wage ($5.15 an hour), the family would have 77 hours of work per week without overtime.

Is it the individuals fault they have the jobs they have? Maybe to an extent. But it is more of the result of the corporate institution of this nation. It is the companies that provide the jobs. It is the companies that maximize profits. It is the companies that downsize postions. It is the companies that export jobs to other countries.

A working person cannot work a good paying job that isn't there.






[edit on 26-11-2004 by Raphael_UO]



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Raphael_UO

Originally posted by elaine
In this country it is always your own fault if you're starveing or poor.



Originally posted by marg6043
All I can say is that I agree with Elaine in our country if you are poor or needy you are either lazy or you wants to leave on the government ...


Spoken like people who have never had to struggle to put food on their children's plates.

A family that is neither lazy nor wanting to live off the gov't can and do struggle with poverty.

A single job family of 5 (Father, Wife, 3 kids) lives in poverty if the provider works a 40 hour week for less than 9.93 an hour. Or with multiple jobs at minimum wage ($5.15 an hour), the family would have 77 hours of work per week without overtime.

Is it the individuals fault they have the jobs they have? Maybe to an extent. But it is more of the result of the corporate institution of this nation. It is the companies that provide the jobs. It is the companies that maximize profits. It is the companies that downsize postions. It is the companies that export jobs to other countries.

A working person cannot work a good paying job that isn't there.






[edit on 26-11-2004 by Raphael_UO]



Actually, Raphael, I was pointing out that the poor are discriminated against for the most part. They're not usually treated the same as everyone else, because in this country MONEY talks. This is unfortunate for us all. I am the sort've person who treats everyone (rich or poor) with the same civility or kindness. It does'nt matter to me if you're the president of a big corporation or a bum on the street. And I think education opportunies should be more equal for everyone. To give everyone a chance at a better paying job. And yes I agree with you that corporations can take alot of the blame because of the way they operate.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by elaine
Actually, Raphael, I was pointing out that the poor are discriminated against for the most part. They're not usually treated the same as everyone else, because in this country MONEY talks. This is unfortunate for us all. I am the sort've person who treats everyone (rich or poor) with the same civility or kindness. It does'nt matter to me if you're the president of a big corporation or a bum on the street. And I think education opportunies should be more equal for everyone. To give everyone a chance at a better paying job. And yes I agree with you that corporations can take alot of the blame because of the way they operate.


My apologies. I think I had a case of "selective reading" or maybe "selective comprehension".


If everyone had the same qualifications for a "good paying job" there would still be those living in poverty as you cannot work a "good paying job" that does not exist.

If every job were a "good paying job" there would still be those living in poverty as the cost of living would increase to cover the cost of providing that "good pay" to all jobs.

It is a vicious cycle. A cycle that will continue because of "the bottom line".



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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I'm glad people realised I was looking at the working person who is struggling to cope.

Imagine holding down two jobs, working long hours and still ending up short of cash at the end of the week because your on minimum wage. You would have loved to go to college and get educated, but unfortunately your parents were broke to.

Not only are you struggling to get by, but you can't seem to save any money for your retirement years. Rents keep going up as does the cost of living, but your wage hasn't increased since 1997. You are now living below the poverty line.

Then you realise that instead of considering the problem faced by 10% of American families, the government is more concerned about poverty in other countries. They start implementing new programs such as this one,



Millennium Challenge Corporation: Reducing Poverty Through Growth

In January 2004, Congress passed a "new compact for global development" called for by President Bush which links greater contributions from developed nations to greater responsibility from developing nations. The President proposed a concrete mechanism to implement this compact -- the Millennium Challenge Account (MCA) - in which development assistance would be provided to those countries that rule justly, invest in their people, and encourage economic freedom.

Source


This project aims to spend 5 billion a year helping poverty in other nations and this is only one of them.

This amount is small compared to the U.S economy in general, but looking at the huge amounts spent on the defence budgets or the "War in Iraq" surely something could be done to ease the suffering of these people.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 05:37 PM
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Raphael you misunderstood also my point I have never blamed the poor for being lazy or wanting to live of the government but in ATS is a lot of people that will tried to justify this growing problem on just that.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Raphael you misunderstood also my point I have never blamed the poor for being lazy or wanting to live of the government but in ATS is a lot of people that will tried to justify this growing problem on just that.


My misunderstanding was all part of the same laspe. But I suffered another laspe by not apologizing to you too. I apologize.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by dgtempe

Originally posted by Simulacra

Originally posted by DrSpeedo
So, whats your point? Do you vote conservative to keep your poverty?

I don't consider my vote conservative or liberal. My decision is not marginalized by two opposing sides. I vote to better my life.
So, you voted Bush?


Badnarik.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 05:16 AM
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I guess everyone has forgotten that America WANTS the poor people, and I quote,

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." - Lady Liberty



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 07:22 AM
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I still think that it's the cost of living that is the problem...

These are the income guidelines for food stamps in my neck of the woods....I broke it down to hourly wage, so I wouldn't take these numbers as 100% accurate, they have a strange way of breking down themselves, and I am not sure if I got that right. Besides these guidelines expires this past sept. I believe.


1.............$ 1,009........$5.82/hr
2...........$ 1,354.........$7.81
3..........$ 1,698..........$9.79
4..........$ 2,043.........$11.78
5..........$ 2,387..........$13.77
6..........$ 2,732......$15.76
7..........$ 3,076
8..........$ 3,421
Each Additional
+$345

sorry, didn't really care about anyone stupid enough to have 5 kids enough to work the chart out any farther. To me, these people should be the first candidates for Bush's mental health evaluation....
Let's look at the average family where the mom is home looking after two small preschoolers while dad's at work.
He have to be making around $11.78 not to be eligible for free lunches at schools, food stamps, and well, maybe even wic. SO, if there are any hungry kids in school unable to buy lunch or starving at home, from this familly dynamic, will, the parents must be either sitting on a few thousand dollars in the bank, or they are just too lazy (or proud) to apply. It also means that anyone making less than this amount has help with their medical bills.
It is more likely that any families of this size who are having problems eating are making more than the $11.78/hr...or maybe less with alot of overtime. Which means, these people are not lazy, they aren't working small trivial jobs that even a monkey could do....

There is a major problem with this. It seems to me, that society is valuing the mimum or low wage worker, the "lazy" as the conservatives would like to label them ABOVE these workers, paying for their healthcare, paying for their food, ect...but then telling the productive workers who are making well over $11.00/hr to kiss off and go fly a kite! All the while, still taking their money to provide services and commodities to his neighbors that he can no longer afford himself. It's not even close to being a just policiy!!!

And, well, it's a policy that seems to just push the cost of living up higher and higher, which means next years guidelines will be higher. Some of those hungry will then be less hungry since they will then be qualified for assistances, but their will be new hungry people who will be earning even higher wages, who these conservatives would be considering even less lazy if they actually took the time to think about it.

Think about it a second.....
$11.78/hr, how many jobs out there are paying less than that? Just how many positions in this country are being "subsidized" by the government's social systems? And, well, isn't it also the business community, the rental property owners, the energy companies, the food industy, the healthcare industry, that are also setting the costs for the basic necessities?
They wouldn't HAVE their labor needs met if it wasn't for the social programs, nor would they be able to reap so much profit from their goods!! Their six figure incomes would drop overnight to a more realistic figure!!





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