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Are the Masons just helping each other out?

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posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 05:34 AM
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Okay, this is my first topic EVER. In every other forum I've ever been in I just answered other people's topics, mostly because I didn't want to ask a question that's already been asked. But I decided to go for it anyway.

I'm in the United States Army, (unfortunately), and in the past year I have been doing some research and stuff, and discovered that almost all, (probably about 90%), of the high ranking soldiers in my unit are Masons. Now there's also some lower ranking soldiers that are Masons, but that's not the point of this topic. I understand that Masons are like a fraternity and help each other out and stuff, but it seems so strange to me that such a huge percentage of the leaders in my unit are members of this so-called secret society. It doesn't really seem right or fair.

I just read a topic about how a large amount of the posters on here are Masons, and I don't mean to offend any of them, I don't really know much about the Masons, except that the majority of high ranking people in my unit ARE Masons, and that seems discriminatory to me.

Obviously this discovery led to thoughts of how the Masons, at this rate, will eventually have total control over the Armed Forces of one of the most powerful nations in the world. I guess I don't really know what to think of it since I don't know a whole lot about Masons. Any thoughts on the subject?




posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 06:00 AM
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Unless the ppl in ur unit are high ranking masons, they most likely dont know about the NWO plans. They're in it for the brotherhood and maybe beer drinking lol. If ur into that then ask if u can join up, at least that way if they do take over u'll be on the winning side lol.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 06:36 AM
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May I ask how you know they are masons?

If they have told you personally, and/or are open about it, I would not think there is a conspiracy involved.

If they haven't it would help to know how you know.

Are the officers from the same area, as in community, prior to enlisting. It is frequently found that people of similar minds do similar things. ie join the Army. therefore it is possible to place freemasonry in the same bracket.

In any account I would recommend that you take the time to read some of the many posts on this forum, and others, regarding freemasonry before to get to worried. You will find there is not much about them that is secret and you will probably realise it is coinsidence, or at most, some pulling strings for a friend type scenario and nothing to do with the actual fraternity itself.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by Bondi
May I ask how you know they are masons?


I knew this question would come up, I should've explained in the original posting.

It started when one of my fellow soldiers and I got into a conversation about the Masons. He thinks they're evil and everything every conspiracy theorist accuses them of being. I told him I didn't know anything about the Masons, but I was interested to know more.

He's a little unorthodox, and went straight up to an NCO who had a tattoo of the all-seeing eye and asked him if he was a Mason, which I disagreed with. But it opened an opportunity for him that led to him and I acquiring information about other Masons in our unit. My fellow soldier who did this was eventually asked if he wanted to join the Masons by the NCO, and he said "yes", later telling me he was planning on "infiltrating the Masons and exposing them for what they are". I don't know the details, but he went to some initiation thing, or some kind of thing for people who were planning on joining or something, where he was with the NCO and some other people in our unit. He gave me the list of these people, and throughout the next few months I did some observing of these individuals. One of them was my platoon sergeant, so I was around him all the time. I overheard a conversation between him and another NCO where they were talking about a fellow soldier who had died, and they referred to him as a "Brother Mason." I also saw the ring that people claim is the ring Masons wear on the hand of another soldier that was on this list. One of the other people on the list was my friend, and I approached him about it. He named a few people that were fellow Masons, he claimed. Each one was on the list I was given. Later one of my good friends who was good friends with his platoon sergeant told me his platoon sergeant had told him he had just joined the Masons, and that NCO was also on my list. Anyway, I could go on and on, but basically over the course of a few months of observing and actually talking with some of my friends, I created a list of people who were admittedly or proven to be Masons, and a list of people who were suspected of being Masons. The fact that all the high-ranking NCO's, (not necessarily high-ranking Masons, though), were Masons caused me to raise an eyebrow.

[edit on 26-11-2004 by an3rkist]



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
I just read a topic about how a large amount of the posters on here are Masons, and I don't mean to offend any of them, I don't really know much about the Masons, except that the majority of high ranking people in my unit ARE Masons, and that seems discriminatory to me.

I sincerely, doubt that the majority of posters on ATS are Masons. Many of the posters are probably not even old enough to join.
If the topic meant a majority of posters in the Masonic-related topics are Masons, well, that would make sense, no? One would think that Masons would talk about their craft and defend it. Others posting would be those curious for knowledge about Masonry, those anti- and those pro-.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 08:21 AM
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On the main forum page:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That should answer all of your questions.

BTW, welcome to ATS.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
He thinks they're evil and everything every conspiracy theorist accuses them of being. I told him I didn't know anything about the Masons, but I was interested to know more.


The fact that your friend is so against it I would be wary of the information given.


Originally posted by an3rkisthad a tattoo of the all-seeing eye
A symbol used by a number of organisations I believe.

Originally posted by an3rkistasked him if he was a Mason,


What was his answer?


Originally posted by an3rkist acquiring information about other Masons in our unit.


There is no secret in who are and are not members.


Originally posted by an3rkist "infiltrating the Masons and exposing them for what they are".


I very much doubt he will prove any of what he thinks it is all about.


Originally posted by an3rkist he went to some initiation thing,


Did he reveal all to you then? No details required, just a yes or no will do.


Originally posted by an3rkist I overheard a conversation between him and another NCO where they were talking about a fellow soldier who had died, and they referred to him as a "Brother Mason."


Just a term used when talking about another mason.


Originally posted by an3rkistI also saw the ring that people claim is the ring Masons wear


There is no distinct, one, ring of a mason, that I am aware of. A number of the fraternity to wear rings, chains etc displaying the square and compass, as they are proud to be part of the fraternity, bit like jocks wear their team jackets.


Originally posted by an3rkist I created a list of people who were admittedly or proven to be Masons, and a list of people who were suspected of being Masons. The fact that all the high-ranking NCO's, (not necessarily high-ranking Masons, though), were Masons caused me to raise an eyebrow.


Have they done anything wrong? What made you feel the need to make the list and investigate your friends and colleagues?



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by an3rkist


I'm in the United States Army, (unfortunately), and in the past year I have been doing some research and stuff, and discovered that almost all, (probably about 90%), of the high ranking soldiers in my unit are Masons. Now there's also some lower ranking soldiers that are Masons, but that's not the point of this topic. I understand that Masons are like a fraternity and help each other out and stuff, but it seems so strange to me that such a huge percentage of the leaders in my unit are members of this so-called secret society. It doesn't really seem right or fair.


There has always been a large number of Freemasons in the U.S. Armed Forces. During the Revolutionary War, it was common for American soldiers to wear Masonic regalia into battle against the English, and soldiers such as George Washington and Marquis de Lafayette would hold Tent Lodges in the field, where a military drum covered with the Stars and Stripes would serve as the Altar.

There are today many military Lodges; and Masons do not keep their membership a secret. Most of our members wear Masonis rings, tie-tacks, etc., that are easily identifiable. If you want to know if a particular individual is a Mason, just ask, I'm sure they'd be happy to talk to you about it.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:17 AM
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3rhist
later telling me he was planning on "infiltrating the Masons and exposing them for what they are"


Have any of the Masons told you lies or tried to do anything against you.

If not, dump your friend and join the Masons. They obviously have more moral fibre , won't let you down and can be trusted.

If I was in the Army thats what I would be looking for , not someone who is prepared to infiltrate his fellow Soldiers with a pre-intent of doing some harm. I would ask myself if he was up to something against me.

Most of the Soldiers I have spoken to that are now Masons, say they joined because they missed the Camaraderie that they had in the forces.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:19 AM
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I know that when I was in the military I noticed alot of Masonic badges on cars, and ALOT of the NCO's and officers in my unit were Masons. Of course, at the time, I didn't have a clue what it was about, I just quietly took notice of all the soldiers, NCOs and officers that had either badges on their car or rings.

In hindsight, I really wish I would have been more inquisitive then (even though I was only 17 at the time), I would probably already be a Mason.


[edit on 11/25/04 by The Axeman]



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by an3rkist
I just read a topic about how a large amount of the posters on here are Masons, and I don't mean to offend any of them, I don't really know much about the Masons, except that the majority of high ranking people in my unit ARE Masons, and that seems discriminatory to me.

I sincerely, doubt that the majority of posters on ATS are Masons. Many of the posters are probably not even old enough to join.
If the topic meant a majority of posters in the Masonic-related topics are Masons, well, that would make sense, no? One would think that Masons would talk about their craft and defend it. Others posting would be those curious for knowledge about Masonry, those anti- and those pro-.


um but wasnt he talking about the armed forces? oh btw tell you friend he wont get very far lmao. im sure if hes been running his mouth against a group inside a group while inside later group former group has him pegged cold. (regardless if such group is good or evil or nuetral or whatever composite). my best guess is that its both the military way of spying/investing in the largest worldwide frathouse and using the handsignals for a modular counter insurgency program (i should use a different word than insurgency, its more like moral boosting, more so for the perpetrators). It also tends to divide the smart ones in half (at least) making it easier on the CO to play one against the other. (not that ive been a CO)

before someone asks , yeah i was in the service (USN). no im not a mason.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by NuTrollum but wasnt he talking about the armed forces?



Originally posted by an3rkist
I just read a topic about how a large amount of the posters on here are Masons,


I believe he mention the amount of posters being mason's.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 12:22 PM
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im sure they do help each other. but then if you stop and think about it so do
every other group of people. my neighbor call and says hey i need to get
to the bank can you take me? sure no problem. I call him , Hey can you
check out my porch light? sure no problem.
Now as Paul Harvey says, Here is the rest of the story. They also donate
Millions of dollars to build and run things like Shrine Childrens Hospitals, Burn
Centers etc, etc. The Lodge in My home town also at Thanksgiving and Christmas delivers 120 food and gift boxes to those in need. Id sure be
careful , you might have one of these guys covering your back ( sarcasm appearent)



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist

Obviously this discovery led to thoughts of how the Masons, at this rate, will eventually have total control over the Armed Forces of one of the most powerful nations in the world. I guess I don't really know what to think of it since I don't know a whole lot about Masons. Any thoughts on the subject?


When I was in the military, what was most important to myself and the rest
of my unit was whether we trusted our officers and ncos to make the correct
decisions to keep us alive and still accomplish what we had been ordered to do.

Some we respected and trusted for their good judgement, and some we feared for their incompetence and their tendency to get people killed.

It's been over thirty years since I've been in the service, But I don't think that things have changed in this regard. Usually the best way to judge an organisation is by the character of the people that belong to it.

Good luck and stay safe.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by tylerdjp
Usually the best way to judge an organisation is by the character of the people that belong to it.


Couldn't of put it better myself. Unfortunately like with every group there are always the bad pennies, and it is hard not to concentrate on these small minorities.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by Bondi
The fact that your friend is so against it I would be wary of the information given.


You'll notice I never once referred to him as my "friend", simply because I disagree with the way he does things, and I disagree with the fact that he has already assumed the Masons are evil. And so, when he gave me his list, I didn't automatically take it to be one hundred percent accurate, if at all. That's why I spent the next few months trying to find out for myself. I would never take anything he says seriously until I found out for myself whether what he said was just speculation or suspicion, or if it was acuurate.


Originally posted by Bondi

A symbol used by a number of organisations I believe.


I agree. Yet another of my fellow soldiers mistakes. (I might add he was right, though.




Originally posted by Bondi
What was his answer?


Well I don't know what his answer was, but after a few conversations this particular NCO asked my fellow soldier if he wanted to join the Masons.


Originally posted by Bondi
There is no secret in who are and are not members.


It seems to me that there is, but I could be wrong.


Originally posted by Bondi

Did he reveal all to you then? No details required, just a yes or no will do.


Well, actually he wimped out or something and left the initiation, I guess. He didn't give me any details, except that he had to wear a nice suit, which is not really very strange at all for an organization of any kind. I was suspicious of whether he was ever actually asked to join, but his list of people checked out, so I don't really bother myself with how he got the list. (Unless he did something illegal or something to get it)


Originally posted by Bondi

Just a term used when talking about another mason.


I assumed as much, and was only mentioned it to give you an idea of how I was finding out who was a Mason, (atleast for those who weren't admittedly Masons, which there are very few of).


Originally posted by Bondi
Have they done anything wrong? What made you feel the need to make the list and investigate your friends and colleagues?


I don't know anything about the Masons except all the propoganda, (for and against), that I get off the internet. There's so much controversy over them that I honestly don't know what to think about them. This is why I "felt the need to make the list and investigate". I find it strange and possibly discriminatory that they seem to favor each other when it comes to promotions in the Army and such, although I can obviously understand the whole "he's probably an honorable, trustworthy person because he's a Mason," probably more likely than one who's not, or whatever, but as a non-Mason I find it discriminatory. I still don't know what to think about the Masons, which is why I'm still studying/investigating them. I'm trying not to make any real accusations because as I said before, I know next to nothing about the organization as a whole. The only things I know for sure is that there's a lot of controversy concerning the Masons, and that the Masons make up a large percentage of the people who I take orders from day in and day out. Maybe that's a good thing, I don't know. I couldn't say for sure that they've done anything wrong, but at the same time I couldn't say for sure that they HAVEN'T done anything wrong. This is why I felt the need to investigate.


Originally posted by Bondi
What made you feel the need to make the list and investigate your friends and colleagues?


Just a little side note, I don't know if you've ever been in the Army or not, but for the most part, anyone higher rank than me would not consider me their "friend" or "colleague". Technically, they could go to jail for being a friend to someone of lower rank, if it got to the point where it affected professional decisions, which it most likely ALWAYS would, since a friend is a friend. Which brings up another point, if Masons are, indeed, promoting each other or helping each other out professionally, this is against Army regulation. If I didn't punish someone lower rank than me just because he was my friend, I could go to jail for that. Why should they be exempt from these rules and regulations?




Originally posted by billmcelligott

Have any of the Masons told you lies or tried to do anything against you.

If not, dump your friend and join the Masons. They obviously have more moral fibre , won't let you down and can be trusted.


I agree they probably do, and once again I'll mention that I never once referred to him as my "friend", (correct me if I'm wrong). And about joining the Masons? You may notice I'm an anarchist. I don't like organizations that have rank, (yes, the Army was the WRONG answer for me. I became an anarchist AFTER I joined the Army, though), or that discriminate, which is pretty much any organization. I view them as tyrannical in a small way. I don't like being told what to think in even a small way. I also don't have a strong belief in a single deity, which I'm pretty sure, (could be wrong), that that is a requirement of joining the Masons.




Originally posted by billmcelligott
If I was in the Army thats what I would be looking for , not someone who is prepared to infiltrate his fellow Soldiers with a pre-intent of doing some harm. I would ask myself if he was up to something against me.


I agree with this part, but I assure you I won't be joining an organization who won't even tell me who they are with a certainty.



Originally posted by billmcelligott
Most of the Soldiers I have spoken to that are now Masons, say they joined because they missed the Camaraderie that they had in the forces.


I can understand this, but I'm talking about people who are Masons WHILE being in the military.



Originally posted by stalkingwolf
They also donate
Millions of dollars to build and run things like Shrine Childrens Hospitals, Burn
Centers etc, etc. The Lodge in My home town also at Thanksgiving and Christmas delivers 120 food and gift boxes to those in need. Id sure be
careful , you might have one of these guys covering your back ( sarcasm appearent)


I don't know much of the charities they do, I've heard that they are very anonymous about their donations and such, (but that can be said about so many things regarding the Masons, yes?). But if you're going to argue that they are "good" just on the basis that they give charity, I would like to debate this simply for the sake of argument. First of all, there's another thread in which the topic is "Religions are just businesses" or something like that. I don't know if Masonry is a religion or not, although the requirement of a belief in one God/deity makes me wonder, but that's not really important. It would be in the Masonic organizations best interests to give charity, (mind you this is all speculation and just theories, I have next to nothing to back it up), so they could be considered a non-profit organization. The Mormons, (don't get me started on them! I was raised Mormon!), also give a TON of charity, but I would never use that as a way to defend their organization for reasons I won't get into in this thread. I'm sure the Masons do a lot of good things for humanity, but that doesn't prove anything to me. (Atleast not yet.) As I keep saying, I'm just trying to find out for myself what they're all about.

[edit on 26-11-2004 by an3rkist]



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 08:59 PM
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Greetings. I am new to this site and find it very interesting. As a history professor and Master Mason, many of the topics peak my interest. In response to your post regarding upper level military men being Masons...I am assuming that most of these men are middle age? A possibility is that most Masons range in age from 50 and on up. When you say 90%, I am assuming that is an approximation? Also, where do you live? Demographics play a great role in this subject. There are more Masons in the South and Mid West than anywhere else in America. I hope perhaps this adds something to your ponderings.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by kwbanner
Greetings. I am new to this site and find it very interesting. As a history professor and Master Mason, many of the topics peak my interest. In response to your post regarding upper level military men being Masons...I am assuming that most of these men are middle age? A possibility is that most Masons range in age from 50 and on up. When you say 90%, I am assuming that is an approximation? Also, where do you live? Demographics play a great role in this subject. There are more Masons in the South and Mid West than anywhere else in America. I hope perhaps this adds something to your ponderings.


Well, none of these men are over fifty, I assure you. They're all around forty, though. You can't be that high ranking in the army without having been in the Army for atleast 16 years, (or something well over 10, I suppose), and since you can't join until you're 17, (which is rare, although I did it), it's about average for these higher ranking people to be 35-40. (Mind you these are not Battalion level-high ranking, I don't know anything about them, they're too far up there for me to know anything. This is Battery/Company-level high ranking.)

Yes, 90% is an approixamation, but I only call it that because there are a few of the NCO's that are POSSIBLY Masons, but I don't know for sure, so I don't want to give a figure like 97% because that could be dishonest. I'm positive that no less than 75% of the high ranking NCOs, (E-6 and E-7's), are Masons, which in itself is statistically amazing in my opinion. The remaining 25% consists of people that I either don't know, or that I have evidence to support the fact that they are Masons, but nothing solid. I say 90% simply because when I did the math, statistically speaking, using the ratio of how many of the people on my list really WERE Masons, (all but one who is a FORMER Mason apparently, although that's in question also), I figured that 90% was more than a fair estimation, when in all likelihood its more than that.

As far as where I live, that's not really an issue because the people in my unit are from all over the United States, and we're all stationed on the opposite side of the planet in South Korea. I think somebody mentioned that earlier, and I failed to reply in my haste to reply to the other things. These men are not all from the same area, atleast not ALL of them. There may be two or three that I don't know about that went to school together or something. However, they have all been in the Army for about the same amount of time, and I know for a fact that they know each other from past units they served in. I suppose this could be a contributing factor.

[edit on 25-11-2004 by an3rkist]



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by Bondi
There is no secret in who are and are not members.



Originally posted by an3rkistIt seems to me that there is, but I could be wrong.


How can that be when the gentleman in question answered YES, he was a mason. You say they were masonic jewelry which shows "membership". What else would you expect them to do?


Originally posted by Bondi

Did he reveal all to you then? No details required, just a yes or no will do.



Originally posted by an3rkistWell, actually he wimped out or something and left the initiation, I guess. He didn't give me any details, except that he had to wear a nice suit,


As you are guessing, I wont comment, as for saying he was a nice suit, can't imagine he hung around for long if he even went.



Originally posted by Bondi
Have they done anything wrong? What made you feel the need to make the list and investigate your friends and colleagues?



Originally posted by an3rkistI don't know anything about the Masons except all the propoganda, (for and against), that I get off the internet. There's so much controversy over them that I honestly don't know what to think about them.


What do you want to know?. I am sure if you asked questions regarding what you actually want to know, rather than regarding the speculations you will get a number of responses. Try it, there is nothing secret about the fraternity other than the modes of recognition, masons will answer any other question you ask, I know I tried it.


Originally posted by Bondi
What made you feel the need to make the list and investigate your friends and colleagues?



Originally posted by an3rkistTechnically, they could go to jail for being a friend to someone of lower rank, if it got to the point where it affected professional decisions, which it most likely ALWAYS would, since a friend is a friend.


Sounds worse than the Freemasons



Originally posted by an3rkist if Masons are, indeed, promoting each other or helping each other out professionally, this is against Army regulation. If I didn't punish someone lower rank than me just because he was my friend, I could go to jail for that. Why should they be exempt from these rules and regulations?


They are not. I bet you know of some one who has got in trouble for helping a friend even though they are not allowed. It is a case of who gets caught gets in trouble, not that freemasons are allowed.

A friend will always help a friend where possible, whether he calls them mate, or brethren.



Originally posted by an3rkistI can understand this, but I'm talking about people who are Masons WHILE being in the military.


It doesn't make them a different kind of mason, they still life their life by the same principles, same as a christian would still follow gods teachings during their service to their country.



Originally posted by an3rkistI've heard that they are very anonymous about their donations and such, (but that can be said about so many things regarding the Masons, yes?).


They donate to aid the purpose, not to gain bragging rights


Originally posted by an3rkist I don't know if Masonry is a religion or not, although the requirement of a belief in one God/deity makes me wonder,


No it isn't a religion. One of the requirements is a belief in a supreme being, I don't believe it necessarily has to be one but I am sure people will correct me if I am wrong, whether that is god, allah or any other deity from the religions of the world. It is to do with the character a religious person has, the ceremonies/role play/ritual they conduct, if you didn't believe in some kind of god it would be meaningless and no point being involved with.


Originally posted by an3rkistIt would be in the Masonic organizations best interests to give charity, (mind you this is all speculation and just theories, I have next to nothing to back it up), so they could be considered a non-profit organization.


If this was the case, why do they not boast about what they do, if it was purely business oreintated why not get the kudos tht comes with massive donations. Would probably cut the number of skeptics by 25% minimum.


Originally posted by an3rkistI'm sure the Masons do a lot of good things for humanity, but that doesn't prove anything to me. (Atleast not yet.) As I keep saying, I'm just trying to find out for myself what they're all about.


What are you trying to prove though. You started off with a question, which basically can be answered with reference to helping each other out, it is the same as you helping someone you called "friend" nothing more.


[edit on 26/11/2004 by Bondi]



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by Bondi
What are you trying to prove though. You started off with a question, which basically can be answered with reference to helping each other out, it is the same as you helping someone you called "friend" nothing more.


As I said before I'm just trying to find out for myself what the Masons are. I'd like to think that they are just a friendly bunch of guys in a big club, but the fact is, (I didn't want to say it before), I don't like the idea that so many of my leaders in the Army are Masons. (Not because they're Masons, but because they're all part of the same organization that I'm not a part of.) As of this moment I have nothing against the Masons, except for this one thing. If they do indeed continue on this pattern, and they only promote their Mason buddies...er...Brethren, then where does that leave me? So I have to join the Masons if I want to get promoted to Staff Sergeant some day? That's ridiculous! And let's say this pattern does continue, and eventually ALL the high ranking people in the Army are Masons. Then the highest ranking Mason, (don't have a clue if there's a single...president or whatever), sees that he outranks these other Masons who have total control over one of the most powerful militaries in the world. I see a MAJOR potential for abuse of power there. I mean, we're all human, right? Most humans in a position where they control such a powerful weapon would try and use it to their advantage I think. I'm just flying by the seat of my pants, but do you see what I'm getting at?

[edit on 26-11-2004 by an3rkist]




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