I actually take offense in all of that. I'm calling you out as a lier. I have presented factual link over and over again, yet you repeatedly
present clear lies as opinion. That is offensive to all self respecting, free thinking people that care about factual information.
Can I get a care check on aisle 2 please... Care check on aisle 2.
I am not concerned with what you take or don't take as offensive. If you are going to "attack" positions, then yours will be "attacked" back. I
am not going to just walk away whenever another poster gets loud and close minded on a topic. I am not going to walk away when that poster engages in
the very behavior he finds offensive. Simply calling a position a lie does not make it so, just as stating information from RT is accurate and
reliable or stating information from western media is accurate and reliable.
That's where research comes in. In this case I have researched all 3 sides and have come to my own conclusions. I recommend you do that same.
1. I did not call everyone a Nazi - You lied.
Then may I suggest you spend some time reading your posts and the matter you phrased them. As for who is lying, well you will be able to answer that
question when you read your posts, where you call people Nazis.
2. You just equated me to a Nazi, I take great offense in that sir. You've offended me.
Yet I am not suppose to find it offensive when you do the same to me? LOL
I am educated, I've worked for FOX as a news editor, and know the difference between news sources as a matter of profession requirement.
Apparently you are not understanding. I don't care about FoxNews... My comment is directed at you, not your previous employers. I have seen FoxNews
get their stories wrong, just as MSNBC, RT and Voice of Russia. Your position is the problem in that the "facts" you are using are not facts - they
are propaganda courtesy of Russia. I am not debating FoxNews or RT in this post. I am debating you and as such, I am stating you are lacking a lot of
information about the situation while using incidents that aren't even related to the topic. If you want people to take your position seriously,
then respectfully, educate yourself on the topic - from BOTH sides - as I have been doing.
Fascist Thugs Beat Up Ukraine TV Boss, Demand Resignation
So you cant support the lie Russian media put out - Check.
As for your esponse those 3 MP's should be removed by Parliament for behaving in the very manner Russia / Crimea has been. Attacking those with a
different viewpoint while ignoring the information they don't like.
What about the armed masked gunmen who seized the Crimean parliament and removed its lawfully elected PM while arbitrarily appointing a Pro
But thank you for once again proving my point that when confronted with facts you don't like . ignore, you simply ignore them as if they have no
bearing on the conversation / debate.
If you are going to throw rocks, make sure you are not standing in your glass house when you do. Especially when trying to justify Russia's /
Crimea's illegal actions.
TONS of videos.
Yup, all taken from Kiev and portrayed by Russian media ass occurring everywhere a Russian lives. Again, you obfuscate the point and try to spin it -
just as Russian media does.
Here are your "freedom fighters";
And here are yours -
What the hell does that mean? Are you saying people in Russia / Crimea don't have Internet? That's just asinine.
No I am saying that any outside media source broadcasting has been restricted in both Russia and Crimea. Only Russian media is allowed and no
criticism's of government actions are tolerated. Had you been paying attention you would know this...
Its not asinine..... Its a fact.
PROVE IT! There was NO invasion of Ukraine. You're just repeating what's on TV.
I have.. repeatedly - www.abovetopsecret.com...
As for repeating items off TV - close - however it was Russian media.
Who voted for current government of Ukraine? NOBODY!!! THey grabbed power at the end of a gun!
You would be wrong... Parliament, which impeached former President Yanukovych, was elected by the people. There was no power grab. A lawful
impeachment occurred under the 2004 Constitution. Something Russian media has confirmed (see above).
If you wish to talk about seizing power by gun then look at Crimea. Where masked men with weapons in uniforms with no insignia took control of the
Crimean parliament and removed the former PM of Crimea, replacing him with some they arbitrarily chose.
Prove that they are legal and under what Constitution! If can't, what you're doing is worse then trolling, a lot worse.
I have - see answer a few sections up. As for trolling I find it sad you come into these forums on a rant while offering nothing but personal opinion
an innuendo to support your flawed and wrong position.
Research the facts if you want the truth. If you don't, then by all means keep yelling / calling people names. All it does it undermines your
"(Reuters) - Andriy Klyuev, a former presidential aide who is said by the new Ukrainian authorities to be on the run with ousted leader Viktor
Yanukovich, has been shot in the leg, his spokesman said.
Spokesman Artem Petrenko said a "trusted source" had told him that Klyuev, the head of the presidential administration until Yanukovich was toppled
on Saturday, had come under fire twice and was wounded, but his life was not in danger."
They were shot at - FACT, not your opinions and feelings. Facts.
It was never confirmed... It WAS reported by a friend of a friend who was going with this girl who knows this guy who saw Ferris, err Klyuev shot in
Thank you for using that article though to support your claim as it also clears up another point of contention for you -
Petrenko said by telephone that he had not spoken to Klyuev, 49, whose wealth is put at more than $200 million, himself and he did not know where
He also said he did not know whether Klyuev was with Yanukovich, who fled Kiev on Friday and is wanted by the Ukrainian authorities to face
accusations of murder following a three-month revolt against his rule and street clashes in which more than 80 people had been killed, many of them
apparently by police shooting.
After parliament officially ousted him on Saturday, Ukraine's new authorities opened a case of mass murder against him and on Tuesday voted to
send him and two other senior law enforcement figures to the International Criminal Court in The Hague when they are captured.
Its a FACT its being reported, its NOT a fact that it actually occurred since no one can confirm it. What is a FACT, is that Yanukovych was lawfully
removed from power.
Secondly Yanukovych was not present, so who are the "they" in they were shot at?
I'm providing facts, not opinion. If you are attempting to imply something, come right out and say it, don't beat around the bush.
You aren't actually... What you are doing, in addition to a lot of others, is ignoring information that does not support the lie Putin is pushing.
Evidence has been produced, using Russian sources, that undermine the position of you and others, yet you ignore it.
As an example you using the Reuters article above... It helped your position to claim he was shot in the leg. However, you will argue the
information about the lawful removal of the former President is asinine nonsense.
Prove that it was illegal! Sight the international law that was breached!
I have, a few posts up where it deals with Ukraine's Constitution.
While the net and media outlets are flooded by massive propoganda about how illigal the referendum was, not a SINGLE ONE states which law was broken,
they all just keep repeating the same crap over and over again.
They have, as have I. You ignore it....
If it was lawful the UN would be involved - Its not, they would not have declined to send observers (they did because they stated Crimea did not have
the authority to request them as they are a part of Ukraine). OCSE observers were also denied entrance.
Secondly, since we are on that topic, polease show me the law Crimea used to determine the basis for the referendum? Who was able to vote, where were
the polling places, who was present, what was needed to vote, did people go house to house to force people to vote, were their armed individuals at
the polling places, were they inside the polling places, was their intimidation of any sort towards non pro Russian supporters?
None of which can verified because they refuse to A - Release the raw election details, B- shut down any and all media outlets that were not Russian
/ critical of Russia's / Crimea's actions.
By all means though - Link me to the law Crimea used for the referendum that answers all of the above (as required by international law / UN charter).
Or is that irrelevant because it would undermine Russian / Crimean / Pro Russian positions?
Here's an actual analysis;
"The United Nations International Court of Justice handed down an advisory opinion in 2010 saying unambiguously that the unilateral declaration of
independence is in accordance with the international law. (2)
Except for the fact Crimea is a part of Ukraine and Crimea's actions violated the Ukrainian Constitution. Simply ignoring that aspect does not make
Crimea's actions lawful. Secondly, the Crimean government was seized / removed and a referendum held under intimidation - which is in fact ILLEGAL
under UN guidelines.
Any action that would alter the territorial integrity of Ukraine must be voted on by referendum by ALL Ukrainians. Not just Crimea which is what
occurred - well that an Russia invading Crimea.
Ill give you props though for attempting to mislead the people by using what appears to be an unbiased media outlet. If only you could have chosen
better, it would not have been discovered the person who wrote the article is Russian, a member of the
chair of the academy on international law and governance in kazan, tatarstan, Russia
Next time, try and find someone who is not on the Kremlins payroll.
As proven over and over again, referendum was held in a accordance with international law, under monitoring of international observers, and not a
single instance of fraud has been recorded by ANYONE!
You would be wrong... Also, to further undermine your attempt above to use a Russian sources masked in a UN style discussion, the fact the UN will not
recognize Crimea as a part of Russia speaks volumes.
Just repeating that people of Crimea somehow committed voting fraud when the turnout was massive 79% with over 95% voting pro-Russia, is just filthy
and disrespectful of Crimean people.
edit on 23-3-2014 by renden because: (no reason given)
If you paid attention to history you would see when you have large turnout numbers in that range that the elections are called into question and for
good reason. Those numbers occur often in north Korea, Iraq under Hussein, Syria under Assad, Nazi Germany under Hitler, the former SSR's under
The impeachment was lawful and valid and has been proven.
The Crimean action was unlawful and has been proven.
The government of Crimea was seized by armed men and has been proven.
Their was widespread actions taken against any and all people / entities in Crimea who were not pro Russian and that has been proven.
The UN does not / will not recognize Crimea as a part of Russia and that has been proven.
As I stated before - A for effort for your full throated defense of the illegal Russian actions inside Ukraine and its armed invasion of Crimea.