Crimean Tatars Will Have to Vacate Land – Official (RIA News)

reply to post by renden


You certainly like to invoke / call everyone Nazis...

Just as the Nazis did to undermine those they did not like.

Please educate yourself on the topic and stop reading only RT / Russian state media sources.

Feel free to Show how the Russian embassy in Ukraine was attacked / prisoners taken...
Feel free to show us how many "riots" took place in Crimea / East / South Ukraine where ethnic Russia's were in "danger".

The propaganda card works in both directions. The only differene right now is people outside of Russia / Crimea has the ability to not only read western media, but Russian, ME, Asian etc etc.

The same cannot be said for people living in Russia or Crimea.

Russia invaded Ukraine..
The government in Ukraine is lawful and valid, no matter how many times you try to claim otherwise using lies released by Moscow.

Even the former President of Ukraine stated he did not flee, but had a meeting scheduled outside the capital.

If he was that calm, he was not attacked nor was a deputy shot.

props for the full throated defense though... Its nice to see multiple people who joined on / near the same day post the same thing in the same threads...

It reminds me of the illegal referendum in Crimea... Where people voted more than once....

Oh boy. I worry about this world. A lot.

Xcathdra
reply to post by renden

 

You certainly like to invoke / call everyone Nazis...

Just as the Nazis did to undermine those they did not like.

Please educate yourself on the topic and stop reading only RT / Russian state media sources.

Feel free to Show how the Russian embassy in Ukraine was attacked / prisoners taken...
Feel free to show us how many "riots" took place in Crimea / East / South Ukraine where ethnic Russia's were in "danger".

The propaganda card works in both directions. The only differene right now is people outside of Russia / Crimea has the ability to not only read western media, but Russian, ME, Asian etc etc.

The same cannot be said for people living in Russia or Crimea.

Russia invaded Ukraine..
The government in Ukraine is lawful and valid, no matter how many times you try to claim otherwise using lies released by Moscow.

Even the former President of Ukraine stated he did not flee, but had a meeting scheduled outside the capital.

If he was that calm, he was not attacked nor was a deputy shot.

props for the full throated defense though... Its nice to see multiple people who joined on / near the same day post the same thing in the same threads...

I actually take offense in all of that. I'm calling you out as a lier. I have presented factual link over and over again, yet you repeatedly present clear lies as opinion. That is offensive to all self respecting, free thinking people that care about factual information.

You certainly like to invoke / call everyone Nazis...

1. I did not call everyone a Nazi - You lied.

Just as the Nazis did to undermine those they did not like.

2. You just equated me to a Nazi, I take great offense in that sir. You've offended me.

Please educate yourself on the topic and stop reading only RT / Russian state media sources.

I am educated, I've worked for FOX as a news editor, and know the difference between news sources as a matter of profession requirement.

Feel free to Show how the Russian embassy in Ukraine was attacked / prisoners taken...

Fascist Thugs Beat Up Ukraine TV Boss, Demand Resignation

www.infowars.com...

Feel free to show us how many "riots" took place in Crimea / East / South Ukraine where ethnic Russia's were in "danger".

TONS of videos.

Here are your "freedom fighters";

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

And here's one of their glorious leaders in action;

www.youtube.com...

And this is the same guy with two prostitutes, getting his nuts stomped, and face kicked with boots;

el-murid.livejournal.com...

The propaganda card works in both directions. The only differene right now is people outside of Russia / Crimea has the ability to not only read western media, but Russian, ME, Asian etc etc.

The same cannot be said for people living in Russia or Crimea.

What the hell does that mean? Are you saying people in Russia / Crimea don't have Internet? That's just asinine.

Russia invaded Ukraine..

PROVE IT! There was NO invasion of Ukraine. You're just repeating what's on TV.

The government in Ukraine is lawful and valid, no matter how many times you try to claim otherwise using lies released by Moscow.

Who voted for current government of Ukraine? NOBODY!!! THey grabbed power at the end of a gun!

Prove that they are legal and under what Constitution! If can't, what you're doing is worse then trolling, a lot worse.

Even the former President of Ukraine stated he did not flee, but had a meeting scheduled outside the capital.

If he was that calm, he was not attacked nor was a deputy shot.

"(Reuters) - Andriy Klyuev, a former presidential aide who is said by the new Ukrainian authorities to be on the run with ousted leader Viktor Yanukovich, has been shot in the leg, his spokesman said.

Spokesman Artem Petrenko said a "trusted source" had told him that Klyuev, the head of the presidential administration until Yanukovich was toppled on Saturday, had come under fire twice and was wounded, but his life was not in danger."

uk.reuters.com...

They were shot at - FACT, not your opinions and feelings. Facts.

props for the full throated defense though... Its nice to see multiple people who joined on / near the same day post the same thing in the same threads...

I'm providing facts, not opinion. If you are attempting to imply something, come right out and say it, don't beat around the bush.

It reminds me of the illegal referendum in Crimea... Where people voted more than once....

Prove that it was illegal! Sight the international law that was breached!

While the net and media outlets are flooded by massive propoganda about how illigal the referendum was, not a SINGLE ONE states which law was broken, they all just keep repeating the same crap over and over again.

Here's an actual analysis;

"The United Nations International Court of Justice handed down an advisory opinion in 2010 saying unambiguously that the unilateral declaration of independence is in accordance with the international law. (2)

A referendum based decision is not a «unilateral declaration of independence». The Court’s ruling was related to the unilateral declaration of independence by the illegitimate government of Kosovo and Metohija. In the case of Crimea the government is democratically elected and legitimate. There are no international norms to be violated; such norms simply do not exist."

nsnbc.me...

And guess what? Here's the original source for the DOCUMENT;

International Court of Justice

www.icj-cij.org...

renden
I actually take offense in all of that. I'm calling you out as a lier. I have presented factual link over and over again, yet you repeatedly present clear lies as opinion. That is offensive to all self respecting, free thinking people that care about factual information.

Can I get a care check on aisle 2 please... Care check on aisle 2.

I am not concerned with what you take or don't take as offensive. If you are going to "attack" positions, then yours will be "attacked" back. I am not going to just walk away whenever another poster gets loud and close minded on a topic. I am not going to walk away when that poster engages in the very behavior he finds offensive. Simply calling a position a lie does not make it so, just as stating information from RT is accurate and reliable or stating information from western media is accurate and reliable.

That's where research comes in. In this case I have researched all 3 sides and have come to my own conclusions. I recommend you do that same.

renden
1. I did not call everyone a Nazi - You lied.

Then may I suggest you spend some time reading your posts and the matter you phrased them. As for who is lying, well you will be able to answer that question when you read your posts, where you call people Nazis.

renden
2. You just equated me to a Nazi, I take great offense in that sir. You've offended me.

Yet I am not suppose to find it offensive when you do the same to me? LOL

renden
I am educated, I've worked for FOX as a news editor, and know the difference between news sources as a matter of profession requirement.

Apparently you are not understanding. I don't care about FoxNews... My comment is directed at you, not your previous employers. I have seen FoxNews get their stories wrong, just as MSNBC, RT and Voice of Russia. Your position is the problem in that the "facts" you are using are not facts - they are propaganda courtesy of Russia. I am not debating FoxNews or RT in this post. I am debating you and as such, I am stating you are lacking a lot of information about the situation while using incidents that aren't even related to the topic. If you want people to take your position seriously, then respectfully, educate yourself on the topic - from BOTH sides - as I have been doing.

renden
Fascist Thugs Beat Up Ukraine TV Boss, Demand Resignation

So you cant support the lie Russian media put out - Check.
As for your esponse those 3 MP's should be removed by Parliament for behaving in the very manner Russia / Crimea has been. Attacking those with a different viewpoint while ignoring the information they don't like.

What about the armed masked gunmen who seized the Crimean parliament and removed its lawfully elected PM while arbitrarily appointing a Pro Russian?

But thank you for once again proving my point that when confronted with facts you don't like . ignore, you simply ignore them as if they have no bearing on the conversation / debate.

If you are going to throw rocks, make sure you are not standing in your glass house when you do. Especially when trying to justify Russia's / Crimea's illegal actions.

renden
TONS of videos.

Yup, all taken from Kiev and portrayed by Russian media ass occurring everywhere a Russian lives. Again, you obfuscate the point and try to spin it - just as Russian media does.

renden
Here are your "freedom fighters";

And here are yours -

renden
What the hell does that mean? Are you saying people in Russia / Crimea don't have Internet? That's just asinine.

No I am saying that any outside media source broadcasting has been restricted in both Russia and Crimea. Only Russian media is allowed and no criticism's of government actions are tolerated. Had you been paying attention you would know this...

Its not asinine..... Its a fact.

renden
PROVE IT! There was NO invasion of Ukraine. You're just repeating what's on TV.

I have.. repeatedly - www.abovetopsecret.com...

As for repeating items off TV - close - however it was Russian media.

renden
Who voted for current government of Ukraine? NOBODY!!! THey grabbed power at the end of a gun!

You would be wrong... Parliament, which impeached former President Yanukovych, was elected by the people. There was no power grab. A lawful impeachment occurred under the 2004 Constitution. Something Russian media has confirmed (see above).

If you wish to talk about seizing power by gun then look at Crimea. Where masked men with weapons in uniforms with no insignia took control of the Crimean parliament and removed the former PM of Crimea, replacing him with some they arbitrarily chose.

renden
Prove that they are legal and under what Constitution! If can't, what you're doing is worse then trolling, a lot worse.

I have - see answer a few sections up. As for trolling I find it sad you come into these forums on a rant while offering nothing but personal opinion an innuendo to support your flawed and wrong position.

Research the facts if you want the truth. If you don't, then by all means keep yelling / calling people names. All it does it undermines your position.

renden.
"(Reuters) - Andriy Klyuev, a former presidential aide who is said by the new Ukrainian authorities to be on the run with ousted leader Viktor Yanukovich, has been shot in the leg, his spokesman said.

Spokesman Artem Petrenko said a "trusted source" had told him that Klyuev, the head of the presidential administration until Yanukovich was toppled on Saturday, had come under fire twice and was wounded, but his life was not in danger."

uk.reuters.com...

They were shot at - FACT, not your opinions and feelings. Facts.
It was never confirmed... It WAS reported by a friend of a friend who was going with this girl who knows this guy who saw Ferris, err Klyuev shot in the leg.

Thank you for using that article though to support your claim as it also clears up another point of contention for you -

Petrenko said by telephone that he had not spoken to Klyuev, 49, whose wealth is put at more than $200 million, himself and he did not know where Klyuev was.

He also said he did not know whether Klyuev was with Yanukovich, who fled Kiev on Friday and is wanted by the Ukrainian authorities to face accusations of murder following a three-month revolt against his rule and street clashes in which more than 80 people had been killed, many of them apparently by police shooting.

After parliament officially ousted him on Saturday, Ukraine's new authorities opened a case of mass murder against him and on Tuesday voted to send him and two other senior law enforcement figures to the International Criminal Court in The Hague when they are captured.

Its a FACT its being reported, its NOT a fact that it actually occurred since no one can confirm it. What is a FACT, is that Yanukovych was lawfully removed from power.

Secondly Yanukovych was not present, so who are the "they" in they were shot at?

renden.
I'm providing facts, not opinion. If you are attempting to imply something, come right out and say it, don't beat around the bush.

You aren't actually... What you are doing, in addition to a lot of others, is ignoring information that does not support the lie Putin is pushing. Evidence has been produced, using Russian sources, that undermine the position of you and others, yet you ignore it.

As an example you using the Reuters article above... It helped your position to claim he was shot in the leg. However, you will argue the information about the lawful removal of the former President is asinine nonsense.

renden.
Prove that it was illegal! Sight the international law that was breached!

I have, a few posts up where it deals with Ukraine's Constitution.

renden.
While the net and media outlets are flooded by massive propoganda about how illigal the referendum was, not a SINGLE ONE states which law was broken, they all just keep repeating the same crap over and over again.

They have, as have I. You ignore it....

If it was lawful the UN would be involved - Its not, they would not have declined to send observers (they did because they stated Crimea did not have the authority to request them as they are a part of Ukraine). OCSE observers were also denied entrance.

Secondly, since we are on that topic, polease show me the law Crimea used to determine the basis for the referendum? Who was able to vote, where were the polling places, who was present, what was needed to vote, did people go house to house to force people to vote, were their armed individuals at the polling places, were they inside the polling places, was their intimidation of any sort towards non pro Russian supporters?

None of which can verified because they refuse to A - Release the raw election details, B- shut down any and all media outlets that were not Russian / critical of Russia's / Crimea's actions.

By all means though - Link me to the law Crimea used for the referendum that answers all of the above (as required by international law / UN charter). Or is that irrelevant because it would undermine Russian / Crimean / Pro Russian positions?

renden.
Here's an actual analysis;

"The United Nations International Court of Justice handed down an advisory opinion in 2010 saying unambiguously that the unilateral declaration of independence is in accordance with the international law. (2)

Except for the fact Crimea is a part of Ukraine and Crimea's actions violated the Ukrainian Constitution. Simply ignoring that aspect does not make Crimea's actions lawful. Secondly, the Crimean government was seized / removed and a referendum held under intimidation - which is in fact ILLEGAL under UN guidelines.

Any action that would alter the territorial integrity of Ukraine must be voted on by referendum by ALL Ukrainians. Not just Crimea which is what occurred - well that an Russia invading Crimea.

Ill give you props though for attempting to mislead the people by using what appears to be an unbiased media outlet. If only you could have chosen better, it would not have been discovered the person who wrote the article is Russian, a member of the

chair of the academy on international law and governance in kazan, tatarstan, Russia

Next time, try and find someone who is not on the Kremlins payroll.

renden.
As proven over and over again, referendum was held in a accordance with international law, under monitoring of international observers, and not a single instance of fraud has been recorded by ANYONE!

You would be wrong... Also, to further undermine your attempt above to use a Russian sources masked in a UN style discussion, the fact the UN will not recognize Crimea as a part of Russia speaks volumes.

renden.
Just repeating that people of Crimea somehow committed voting fraud when the turnout was massive 79% with over 95% voting pro-Russia, is just filthy and disrespectful of Crimean people.

edit on 23-3-2014 by renden because: (no reason given)

If you paid attention to history you would see when you have large turnout numbers in that range that the elections are called into question and for good reason. Those numbers occur often in north Korea, Iraq under Hussein, Syria under Assad, Nazi Germany under Hitler, the former SSR's under Soviet Occupation.

The impeachment was lawful and valid and has been proven.
The Crimean action was unlawful and has been proven.
The government of Crimea was seized by armed men and has been proven.
Their was widespread actions taken against any and all people / entities in Crimea who were not pro Russian and that has been proven.
The UN does not / will not recognize Crimea as a part of Russia and that has been proven.

As I stated before - A for effort for your full throated defense of the illegal Russian actions inside Ukraine and its armed invasion of Crimea.

Xcathdra

Can I get a care check on aisle 2 please... Care check on aisle 2.

You are a lier, and since you don't care one bit being called a lier, you have no self respect, therefore you are either engaged in disinformation for hire, or you are an ideological lier.

I am not concerned with what you take or don't take as offensive.

Yeap, we got that. Proceed spreading lies and not caring about it one bit.

If you are going to "attack" positions, then yours will be "attacked" back. I am not going to just walk away whenever another poster gets loud and close minded on a topic. I am not going to walk away when that poster engages in the very behavior he finds offensive. Simply calling a position a lie does not make it so, just as stating information from RT is accurate and reliable or stating information from western media is accurate and reliable.

I've provided fact that are supported by actual documentation, not media hype, but you'll be simply ignoring all that, that's your job. Same old lies, hypocrisy, double standards, same old crap.

That's where research comes in. In this case I have researched all 3 sides and have come to my own conclusions. I recommend you do that same.

Oh sure, and what is your informational source for such research, FOX? LOL! Pathetic.

renden
Then may I suggest you spend some time reading your posts and the matter you phrased them. As for who is lying, well you will be able to answer that question when you read your posts, where you call people Nazis.

I call anybody a Nazi who is engaged in supporting Nazis directly or indirectly. Kiev has been overran by Nazis, power has been usurped at the end of a gun barrel, to you that's freedom, and yes, I am calling you a Nazi since you support Kievs Nazi regime.

If you are not a Nazi, then you would REJECT criminal Kievs Nazi regime which was created, financed and is controlled by USA.

renden
2. You just equated me to a Nazi, I take great offense in that sir. You've offended me. Yet I am not suppose to find it offensive when you do the same to me? LOL

I do NOT support Kiev Nazi regime, I am NOT a Nazi, you SUPPORT Kievs Nazi regime, that makes you either a Nazi, or a Nazi sympathizer. That is your choice, and yours alone.

Apparently you are not understanding. I don't care about FoxNews... My comment is directed at you, not your previous employers. I have seen FoxNews get their stories wrong, just as MSNBC, RT and Voice of Russia. Your position is the problem in that the "facts" you are using are not facts - they are propaganda courtesy of Russia. I am not debating FoxNews or RT in this post. I am debating you and as such, I am stating you are lacking a lot of information about the situation while using incidents that aren't even related to the topic. If you want people to take your position seriously, then respectfully, educate yourself on the topic - from BOTH sides - as I have been doing.

I quit FOX because I was told to manufacture false stories, but unlike the BS false flag crap that that # pulled on RT, i quit as a professional, with out a fuss and drama. I refused to be a part of propaganda media agenda, it was a personal choice, and I left with out burning any bridges because I cared about and respected the good people I worked with. Within 6 months after I left, 60% of our crew also left, because in fact they were self respecting people for whom lying was not a way of life, personal or professional.

I've listed TONS of links from all kinds of US/UK/Canada based media outlets, not just Russian, but all that doesn't matter to you, you got an agenda to push, so have fun.

So you cant support the lie Russian media put out - Check.
As for your esponse those 3 MP's should be removed by Parliament for behaving in the very manner Russia / Crimea has been. Attacking those with a different viewpoint while ignoring the information they don't like.

What about the armed masked gunmen who seized the Crimean parliament and removed its lawfully elected PM while arbitrarily appointing a Pro Russian?

Oh OK, let's totally ignore thugs and attempt to divert, deflect and defuse the issue. No, how about this, do you, or don't you support CRIMINAL THUGS THAT KILL PEOPLE?

Make your stand, if you can, which I doubt, because only self respecting men take stands.

But thank you for once again proving my point that when confronted with facts you don't like . ignore, you simply ignore them as if they have no bearing on the conversation / debate.

If you are going to throw rocks, make sure you are not standing in your glass house when you do. Especially when trying to justify Russia's / Crimea's illegal actions.

Why don't you go chew on some glass and take a crap. How about that? Oh no, I'm sorry, that was totally uncalled for right, because that would be a personal attack of some sort, but repeatedly lying which offend people much more then personal attacks is all cool and stuff, because that's like opinions and nothing personal.

You're repeatedly calling Crimea's choice to defend it self from armed Nazi thugs as a criminal action, you are a damn Nazi.

ONLY NAZIS DEFEND NAZIS AND ATTACKS THOSE WHO DEFEND THEMSELVES FROM NAZIS!!

renden
TONS of videos.

Yup, all taken from Kiev and portrayed by Russian media ass occurring everywhere a Russian lives. Again, you obfuscate the point and try to spin it - just as Russian media does.

Those videos were not filmed by Russians. Again, don't worry about it, to you it doesn't matter, facts don't matter to Nazis.

renden
Here are your "freedom fighters"
And here are yours -

Oh yes, thank you for showing me the list of your Nazi pals, including Putin who as an ex KGB also must be a Nazi himself right, oh yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense to stupid people. Red KGB that fought Nazis as their specialty, are in fact them selves Nazis, yeap, that must be it, cuz as long as Nazi keep calling everybody against them as Nazis, then somehow that would protect them.

renden
What the hell does that mean? Are you saying people in Russia / Crimea don't have Internet? That's just asinine.
No I am saying that any outside media source broadcasting has been restricted in both Russia and Crimea. Only Russian media is allowed and no criticism's of government actions are tolerated. Had you been paying attention you would know this...

Its not asinine..... Its a fact.

What is a fact is that you are an emotionless robot or a psychopath, because only robots and psychopaths can keep lying with out an ounce of guilt.

To you Nazis in Kiev shutting down Russian TV channels first is A-OK, but Crimean government shutting down Kievs channels which are owned by Ukrainian oligarchs who are calling for war with Russia, is an attacks on freedom and democracy. That's hypocrisy and double standards.

Here, this is just for you;

www.youtube.com...

Kind of make you forget what happened to the american Indians don't you think or what happens when a banker takes someones home away or that anyone in the USA ever, ever gets forced to move on !

Maybe they should shoot those that resist like they did to that american guy who apparently was camping illegal on some land and had the dogs set on him.

Our masters need to be reminded who's land it is more in the west than they need in Russia IMHO and lets not forget who paid the criminals in the Ukraine to play a little trick for the west.

You can have land in the west but it costs $500 s/m if you want to build on it and we call ourselves rich because of it.

paraphi
To the OP. This is tragic.

Russia purported to support the minority Russians in Ukraine as an excuse for the invasion and annexation of the Crimea - "Crimea is ours" blurts out Putin at the Duma! What he is doing is completing what Stalin started – that is the total removal of the Crimean Tatars from their homelands, something which Stalin nearly completed through genocide a few decades ago. Got to love the Russians for their racism. No wonder every nation that borders them wants to deal with the EU rather than them!

Regards

Whoa?

Up until Bolshevik revolution Ukriane always was a part of Russia17%. Belorussian, Velikorussia (Russia) and Malorussia (Ukraine), all three were one nation until Bolsheviks bust it it up.

Russians make up over 60% of entire Crimean Peninsula. That's not a minority, that's a majority.

Muslim Crimean Tartars were deported after WWII because they chose to fight for Hitlers Nazi Germany, joined Waffen SS death squads and engaged in ethnic cleansing of the Crimea.

Instead of executing them all as war traitors, Stalin deported them from Crimea.

These are Islamic Crimean Tartars yelling "Allah Akbar" while attempting to take over Crimean government, and this is what started the entire Crimean situation;

www.youtube.com...


Crimean Tartars are supported by Turkey and USA, and were calling for Jihad against all Russians.

Do you support Islamo-Fascist radicals? It doesn't really matter though, because we all live in the age of no morals what so ever, and what ever dirty criminal thug gets the job done by whatever means is just fine.

Actually I'm all for outright thug-a-thin, but what makes me sick is the never ending hypocrisy and double standard.

It's clear that American jihadists are all good as long as they get the job done, so what ever thug gets payed to kill whom ever, as long as they play ball for American interests.

Glad we worked that out.

VirusGuard
Kind of make you forget what happened to the american Indians don't you think or what happens when a banker takes someones home away or that anyone in the USA ever, ever gets forced to move on !

Maybe they should shoot those that resist like they did to that american guy who apparently was camping illegal on some land and had the dogs set on him.

Our masters need to be reminded who's land it is more in the west than they need in Russia IMHO and lets not forget who paid the criminals in the Ukraine to play a little trick for the west.

You can have land in the west but it costs $500 s/m if you want to build on it and we call ourselves rich because of it.

edit on 24-3-2014 by VirusGuard because: (no reason given)

I fully agree and support this message

renden
Up until Bolshevik revolution Ukriane always was a part of Russia.

I see you are still telling fairy tales...

Ukraine dates back to the 10th / 11th century and was called Kyivan Rus. It was a separate nation and powerful at the time. Russia conquered Ukraine in the 18th century. Ukraine became independent during the Bolshevik revolution and was then reconquered by Russia.

So no, Ukraine has not always been a part of Russia. Ukraine was conquered by Russia - multiple times, throughout history.

Didn't your leaders teach you anything before dropping you off on this planet?

Xcathdra

renden
Up until Bolshevik revolution Ukriane always was a part of Russia.

I see you are still telling fairy tales...

Ukraine dates back to the 10th / 11th century and was called Kyivan Rus. It was a separate nation and powerful at the time. Russia conquered Ukraine in the 18th century. Ukraine became independent during the Bolshevik revolution and was then reconquered by Russia.

So no, Ukraine has not always been a part of Russia. Ukraine was conquered by Russia - multiple times, throughout history.

Didn't your leaders teach you anything before dropping you off on this planet?

You must have family in Ukraine. Where are they from?

I've been to both Ukraine and Crimea, have you?

Who are my leaders?

Work on it.

reply to post by renden


What did your post have to do with the wrong information you posted about Ukraine?

Xcathdra
reply to post by renden

 

What did your post have to do with the wrong information you posted about Ukraine?

weak sauce you got there.

Not being able to answer a single question, you get an F.