Crimean Tatars Will Have to Vacate Land – Official (RIA News)

renden
...derp....

Not only did you not answer the question posed, you once again made It personal.

Its not hard to look at how Nazi Germany ran their affairs - their military / economic / social / racial superiority bs permeated their entire existence. Since there was no greater race than the Aryans, they viewed their actions as lawful and right because there was no higher power to tell them they were wrong.

It took almost a decade, the loss of 50 million people and the destruction of major parts of countries to prove to them they were wrong.

Putin is going down this road and you and others seize on the "acts" and not the "plan" and that is where you are failing imo.

From Putin's "We are protecting Ethnic Russians" (Hitler used the ethnic German protection excuse to justify his start of world domination) to Putin's annexation of Crimea / Georgia / attempting to do so in Moldova (Hitler's annexation of Sudentland).

Now we have Tartars in Crimea being told they must move, just as was done to the Jews under Hitler.

What scares the hell out of me is the fact you and the others either don't see the parallel's, or you don't care about the parallels because you are ok with them. Hitler's initial push was based on the Nazi economy, just as Russia is doing. The Nazis blamed the jews in addition to the "interference" of other countries, just as Russia is doing (blaming the west / non ethinc Russians).

Putins argument about Crimea / other "lands" that should be Russian that are not is the same as Hitler making the same argument about the Rhineland, the Sudentland, then Austria, check and then Poland.

Hitler told all he would stop after the Sudentland, just as Putin is claiming he wont invade South or East Ukraine. Cheap words since Putin has lied from the start. 60-80k Russian troops massed along the Ukraine border, when Ukraine is is no position to compare, just as Hitler did.

Hitlers initial actions were to test the international response. When he learned appeasement was their response, he milked that for all it was worth, just as Putin is doing now.

Putin is wanting to redraw the borders of Russia to be more inline with the former Soviet Union (and yes, he stated this and the Russian links are in this thread as well as others). The exact same manner and method Nazi Germany used.

Someone actually argued, quote below) that since Tartars are being given land elsewhere (which is not defined) that its ok to forcibly relocate them (which is what it will be, forceful regardless of how they try and spin it).

Sparkymedic
It states that they will still be allowed in the Crimean region, but because this is referring to Tatars who are essentially squatters - which Ukraine never was able to deal with, they need to move off that land and are being asked to do so by the new regional Crimean authorities, best to deal with it now rather than later...you know - have the same rights as everyone else - no special privileges above another.

When a person is forcibly removed they don't have the rights as everyone else, especially in this situation. When Putin insists he will protect ethnic Russians, its not applied to anyone else. When ethnic Russians attack everyone else, and Putin is quiet, its not the same treatment.

Do you get it? Do you understand why the comparison is so important and why its paramount to stop Putin now either than down the road when forced relocation becomes a staple of Russia policy again?

To tpo it off he finished with

Sparkymedic I think the liberals call it equality.

I think the Nazis called it the Warsaw Ghetto.


There are people in this thread and others that do not know their history. They do not understand the parallels between Hitler and Putin and instead think this is just some big game. They do not understand the danger involved and think Russia would win in a war.

Russia has peaceful neighbors... To bad Russia is not peaceful towards them.

A modern war that is on par / scale with world war II will leave no winners. The mentality involved is in my signature line.

Albert Einstein summed it all up -

“I don't know what weapons will be used in world war three, but in world war four people will use sticks and stones.”

Like Hitler, Putin's actions are not supported by the international community. His illegal invasion / annexation is not supported. His mentality is stuck in the cold war era and he has to stop. All it is going to take is one solider on either side to pop a round off and its game over- no winners - period.

renden
I'll hit the last one, since you're not a Nazi and just disapprove of Putin protecting Russians from Nazis

How about you tell me why there is no comparison between the actions of Nazi Germany and the actions of Russia / Crimea today.

Because there were no Germans in USSR that Hitler went to save from the blood thirsty Stalin

Yet this is a fact; you support claimed legitimacy of criminals in power of current Ukraine, and reject lawful elections of the people, by the people of Crimea.

That's your MO.

If to you President protecting his people is a criminal act, then criminality is your preference. Simple logic.

Hmm.criminals in ukraine? they basically impeached the president in ukraine. they didnt do like hitler and take over the government. if they had the UN would had condemmned them.

You joined at a suspicious time too and from your history its obvious what you are. youre not even worth further replies either.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I fully endorse what you are saying. It is extraordinary that some people seem to think it's all OK for a foreign power to forcibly annex someone else's territory. There are parallels with Hitler who played on the unwillingness of the "soft" democracies to stand up to authoritarianism.

I have noticed that some people who think Russia did good, and who have been aggressive in the pursuit of this position, have joined ATS in the last month. I feel (conspiratorially) that there is a concerted effort to stifle discussion on the line you are taking. Would that be the "Russian way"?

Regards

reply to post by Xcathdra


I'm not supporting any of this, I take no sides, which you clearly do - and that is fine, it's your choice to do so. It just seems as though you're using one source and discrediting what it is saying based on your interpretation of the facts it presents (the article). The past is the past (I refer you to my quote below). I'm not supporting relocating anyone, but in what country is squatting legal? Again, not that I care, but laws are laws...I fail to see why you are spitting venom over this. If all you're going to do is rehash "his-story" and debate which version is correct, while trying to superimpose it on the present day, please leave me out of it. I have no patience for such stupidity of living in the past. I try to deal with present terms only. I am sure that the people of the Crimean region and many others around the world, stay subdued from progress by wasting their time on the contemplation of "his-story" and the illusion of culture. I can only hope people will eventually take responsibility for what they think and do and break free from these illusions/delusions.

reply to post by Sparkymedic


Those who deny and do not learn from their past are doomed to repeat it. Ignore history at your peril.

Since Putin explained why he invaded Crimea and annexed it one has to wonder if turn about is fair play?

Does anyone think Putin would be ok with giving up Kaliningrad? Using Putin's logic and his argument about history, the very same argument can be applied to Kaliningrad, which was German (Konigsberg) territory up until the end of WWII, when Stalin, deported the Germans living in the area.

Maybe Germany should reclaim their territory that was illegally annexed by Russia at the end of WWII.

reply to post by Xcathdra

By that logic maybe Crimea really should have gone back to Turkey too? I know I keep saying that. Sorry.

One interesting thing I just read is that the Tartars boycotted the vote. Must have missed that before. That probably skews the numbers even more (other threads).

paraphi
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

I fully endorse what you are saying. It is extraordinary that some people seem to think it's all OK for a foreign power to forcibly annex someone else's territory. There are parallels with Hitler who played on the unwillingness of the "soft" democracies to stand up to authoritarianism.

I have noticed that some people who think Russia did good, and who have been aggressive in the pursuit of this position, have joined ATS in the last month. I feel (conspiratorially) that there is a concerted effort to stifle discussion on the line you are taking. Would that be the "Russian way"?

Regards

There are significant parallels with Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and many others.....These invasions are all OK somehow, presumably because they were done in the 'American Way'?

By the way, how do the civilian casualty figures from the annexation of Crimea compare with those of America's recent efforts?

Now give it a rest.....Your hypocrisy is frankly sickening!

reply to post by bubab

Do you have references for the Svoboda party being in power and outlawing this?


reply to post by squarehead666

The difference is that this is more of an in-house kind of thing. And until a line (what line that is is yet to be determined, apparently) is crossed, it should remain so, as much as some don't seem to want it to.

reply to post by ~Lucidity

It appears that the majority of Crimeans welcome the Russian move.....As opposed to the vast majority of Iraqis, Afghans etc.

The comparisons with Hitler's move on Austia or the Sudetanland may be valid.....Comparisons with the Nazi invasion of the remainder of Czechoslovakia are not (although they might become so, should he now move on eastern Ukraine).

Personally I think Putin's done.....He's made his point, the EU & other meddlers got their fingers burned and then literally lined up to make fools of themselves with their hypocritical and impotent condemnations!

He must be laughing into his Vodka TBH!

squarehead666
There are significant parallels with Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and many others.....

Not really no.

Research those incidents and then compare to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

As for Kosovo - that's becoming more popular to invoke.. To bad that people who do use it don't realize that Russia was involved on the side of NATO / UN. They had forces present in the KFOR.

squarehead666
These invasions are all OK somehow, presumably because they were done in the 'American Way'?

Not really no. Did you miss the number of countries who got pissed at the US for those actions?

squarehead666
By the way, how do the civilian casualty figures from the annexation of Crimea compare with those of America's recent efforts?

Since we did not annex any of those countries I am not sure. Since the parties involved on both sides engaged in combat, with civilian casualties as a result, I am not sure. Explain how the world trade centers were a lawful military target?
Or suicide bombs...
homicide bombers...
Murder in the name of Islam...
Holy wars...

I am sure if we were to do a comprehensive study on which side killed more innocent civilians, the US would be close to the bottom since we are only 300 years old.

People have been murdered by religions for thousands of years prior.

squarehead666
Now give it a rest.....Your hypocrisy is frankly sickening!

edit on 22-3-2014 by squarehead666 because: s&p / content

I don't think I will... I am not the one justifying American actions am I? My entire focus has been on Russia / Crimea and Ukraine.

Your inability to actually read the posts and understand them while trying to bring in situations with no comparison is sad.

Learn what hypocrisy is before using it so when you do use it you can get it right.


Do you have anything on topic?

Does Germany have a right to invade / annex Kaliningrad?

reply to post by Xcathdra

I am sure if we were to do a comprehensive study on which side killed more innocent civilians, the US would be close to the bottom since we are only 300 years old.

Well at least they're doing their upmost to catch up!!!

Then again I thought this wasn't about "the past"... But the ere & now...
In which case they're right at the very top!!!

Peace X!

yuppa
Hmm.criminals in ukraine? they basically impeached the president in ukraine. they didnt do like hitler and take over the government. if they had the UN would had condemmned them.

Presented was NOT impeached, he was ran out of office by armed thugs, he was shot at and his deputy was wounded in the leg.

That's not impeachment, it's armed coupt.

You joined at a suspicious time too and from your history its obvious what you are. youre not even worth further replies either.

Are you f-ing serious? Really? A suspicious time to join? What I am and my history? What the f are you dude, John McCains secretary? You gout V for Vendetta atavar, and the 1st thing you do is attempting to discredit somebody based on what?

You're right, there's no point replying to you, you got some imaginary world running in your head.

Xcathdra
[
Not only did you not answer the question posed, you once again made It personal.

You haven't provided a single reference to ANY of your claims, so everything you say is opinion, not fact.

That's cool and all, women in hair salons like to gossip abut all kinds of things as well, but self respecting men rely on facts, not opinions.

So I take it ATS is all about gossip and opinions then, and facts are for some other people. Right on, it's cool. Noted.

Its not hard to look at how Nazi Germany ran their affairs - their military / economic / social / racial superiority bs permeated their entire existence. Since there was no greater race than the Aryans, they viewed their actions as lawful and right because there was no higher power to tell them they were wrong.

Dude, at this moment Kiev is ran by Nazis, not Putin, which part of that don't you understand? Can you tell the difference between tho things, or everything is kind of a blur to you? Let me repeat it, these guys, called the "Right Sector", are in power in Kiev, they are Nazis;



There are the bad guys, they kill people based on their ethnicity. Are you cool with that? It's a simple question, yes, or now.

These guys are the criminals in power;

www.independentpoliticalreport.com...

Are you cool with criminals? It's nothing personal, since apparently it's all about opinions here and not facts, then it's cool to have an opinion that terrorism, extortion, kidnaping and all other criminal activity is like cool, so maybe ATS is that kind of forum. if that's the case sorry, I though this was not an extremist forum.

Anyway, if you think protecting people from Neo-Nazis is not cool, and Neo-Nazis are cool, then all the white-power to you buddy.

Now we have Tartars in Crimea being told they must move, just as was done to the Jews under Hitler.

Wow, dude, Crimean Tartars were the Nazis fighting for Hitler, and were the ones killing Crieman Jews, so I take it you're all for Crimean Tartars.

Are you sure this is not a Neo-Nazi forum? Becasue this is getting strange, I though that any kind of rational people actually condemn Nazis, instead of supporting them.

Like Hitler, Putin's actions are not supported by the international community. His illegal invasion / annexation is not supported. His mentality is stuck in the cold war era and he has to stop. All it is going to take is one solider on either side to pop a round off and its game over- no winners - period.

Yikes. OK, one more time, Putin is protecting Russian from Neo-Nazis. To you that's bad. People holding democratic referendum to join Russia for protection from Neo-Nazis, that to you is bas a s well. OK then. Congratulations, keep on rocking there buddy, opinions are cool.

Xcathdra
Since Putin explained why he invaded Crimea and annexed it one has to wonder if turn about is fair play?

Now I'm calling you out mister, cuz it seems like you're just making stuff up as you go.

Where did Putin explain why he >invaded< Crime?

PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!

Does anyone think Putin would be ok with giving up Kaliningrad? Using Putin's logic and his argument about history, the very same argument can be applied to Kaliningrad, which was German (Konigsberg) territory up until the end of WWII, when Stalin, deported the Germans living in the area.

Maybe Germany should reclaim their territory that was illegally annexed by Russia at the end of WWII.

Are you freaking kidding me? "annexed"? It's called LIBERATED from Nazi invaders. Russianы lost ungodly millions of solders and civilians FIGHTING A WAR WITH NAZIS, and what, in the end they should of like said, oh here you go dudes, have all your land back, and while we're at it, why don't you have some of ours.

Are you even aware of what war is? Russians won, they got to decide how that territory was to be used because they bled and died for it. Which part of that is difficult for you to grasp?

For crying out loud.

reply to post by renden


Comrade Putin explains it all

ETA: The Ukrainian people fought that war from and on two sides. They fought both the Nazis and the Reds. It's complicated.

renden
Dude, at this moment Kiev is ran by Nazis, not Putin, which part of that don't you understand?

Calling the Ukrainian authorities Nazis is just propagating the drivel spat out by the pro Russian propaganda machine. If Ukrainian is anti Russian then they are Nazi's. What a shallow worldview some people seem to have.

The world has moved on since WW2 when Ukrainians had to choose between two psychopaths - Hitler or Stalin. Boy did the Ukrainians pay as Stalin (i.e. the Soviet Russians) inflicted man made famine across the region and attempted to kill off the Crimea Tatars. No wonder many Ukrainian's fear Russia - just like a whole host of ex-Soviet client states who have run to join the liberal West. Must be a terrible slap in the face for Putin that countries just do not want to deal with him!

Regards

It is best they are gone. Turkey is ally to the US. And the US and their allies have displayed a historic pattern of sacrificing their own for secret interests. So I say good for Putin... once again. I want to see a cartoon sketch of Putin dribbling a basketball down low on Obama who is holding a clip board, studying intensely. Putin yelling "SHOW ME SOMETHIN! SHOW ME SOMETHIN!!"

When someone is attacking you but has convinced the world it is not. There are few moves that make sense to the sold.

~Lucidity
reply to post by renden

 

Comrade Putin explains it all

ETA: The Ukrainian people fought that war from and on two sides. They fought both the Nazis and the Reds. It's complicated.

edit on 3/23/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

Sorry, it's FOX, it's not complicated, it's this simple;

>>“would naturally be the last resort.” But he might just do it anyway.

paraphi

renden
Dude, at this moment Kiev is ran by Nazis, not Putin, which part of that don't you understand?

Calling the Ukrainian authorities Nazis is just propagating the drivel spat out by the pro Russian propaganda machine.

Really? OK then, herer we go.

Ukraine Nazis: Is America Backing EuroMaidan Extremists?

www.ibtimes.co.uk...

UK propaganda.

Censored Graphic Video: Kiev Neo-Nazi Snipers From US-Backed Ukrainian Coalition

______beforeitsnews/power-elite/2014/03/censored-graphic-video-kiev-neo-nazi-snipers-from-us-backed-ukrainian-coalition-2444998.html

American propaganda.

Ukraine: Secretive Neo-Nazi Military Organization Involved in Euromaidan Sniper Shootings

www.globalresearch.ca...

Canadian propaganda.

IS THE U.S. BACKING NEO-NAZIS IN UKRAINE?

voiceofdetroit.net...

Detroit propaganda

Neo-Nazis and far-right protesters in Ukraine

libcom.org...

New York propaganda

In Kiev, an Israeli army vet led a street-fighting unit

www.jta.org...

Jewish Israli propaganda

The Ukrainian Nationalism at the Heart of ‘Euromaidan’

www.thenation.com...

The Nation propaganda...

Apparently there's a whole lot of propaganda about Ukrains Nazis, and not a single page about it from FOX... What ever could that mean I wonder...

If Ukrainian is anti Russian then they are Nazi's.

Nope, different things. Nazis are Nazis. All there's to it.

What a shallow worldview some people seem to have.

Agreed. Nazis are still Nazis, regardless of what sauce they are served with.

The world has moved on since WW2 when Ukrainians had to choose between two psychopaths - Hitler or Stalin. Boy did the Ukrainians pay as Stalin (i.e. the Soviet Russians) inflicted man made famine across the region and attempted to kill off the Crimea Tatars.

False, fake, prove it. There was no Stalin made famine, Holodomor was CIA "Ani-Red" propaganda campaign;

"In January 1935, at the outset of Randolph Hearst's anti-Red campaign, Gareth wrote a series of three of the most heart-rending articles for the American Hearst press, which repeated his first-hand observations of Ukrainian famine. Unlike in March 1933, when Gareth exposed the Soviet famine and was infamously denigrated by Stalin Apologist, Walter Duranty in the columns of the New York Times, on this occasion there was strangely not even a 'muddying of the waters' murmur from the 'Friends of the Soviet Union'.

In February 1935, the Hearst press ran a further series of articles by one 'Thomas Walker', which documented his own observations of an on-going Ukrainian famine in the spring of 1934 and illustrated with photos taken secretly with his own camera.

www.garethjones.org..."

"Andrey Merkulov is a deputy at Sevastopol’s city council. He describes how he found evidence that special services in his town were falsifying historical facts.

“Here’s a photo by Dorothy Lang, shot in 1936 in Oklahoma. And here’s a photo by Fritof Nansen made in Russia’s Povolzhe region in 1921. But both of those pictures and other falsified photos were displayed at Sevastopol’s exhibition on the Ukrainian famine of 1932-1933,” Merkulov says, demonstrating aged photographs.

Kiev claims that Holodomor was artificially directed against Ukrainians – something denied by Moscow. Russia and Ukraine are also at odds over the famine's official death toll."

rt.com...

"Ukraine acknowledges fake photos in Holodomor exhibition
Ukraine has extended formal apologies after acknowledging fakes in a Sebastopol photo exhibition about its Soviet-era famine in the early 1930s. Several pictures actually show sufferers of a 1920s famine event on the Volga, and several others, malnourished Americans from the time of the Great Depression. Experts appearing on Russian TV suspected deliberate falsification."

voiceofrussia.com...

Oh that's right, it's RT and VOR and some "researchers", so all have to be discarded as propaganda simply because nobody else will print these stories even after officials confirm the information. Back to FOX it is then...

No wonder many Ukrainian's fear Russia - just like a whole host of ex-Soviet client states who have run to join the liberal West.

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! Not even gonna comment, that was like something what a 5 year old would say lololol!!!

Must be a terrible slap in the face for Putin that countries just do not want to deal with him!

LOL!!!!!

"China to Buy Russian Oil Gas – Petrodollar to PetroGold: Russia’s Wild Card
Saturday, March 22, 2014 11:36"

______beforeitsnews/opinion-conservative/2014/03/china-to-buy-russian-oil-gas-petrodollar-to-petrogold-russias-wild-card-2825136.html


p.s.

Oh yeah, forgot, Crieman Tartars = Nazis which were relocated by Stalin after WWII. Tartars served in Nazi Waffen SS death squads. That's why they were "relocated".