Crimean Tatars Will Have to Vacate Land – Official (RIA News)

trinityschild

bubab

trinityschild

bubab

trinityschild

the2ofusr1
reply to post by bubab

 

Notice how even they obscure the question ..I am in favor of Russians actions for the tartars not for the actions against .In this case Russia is actually doing something for them ...strange colored glasses some weare ..

How long have they lived there?, that is a genuine question by the way.

If it is a few weeks even months then there might be a point but as far as I am aware this historically is their land. Now if I am wrong then I am sorry, this is not trolling I am happy to be educated and to understand your point of view.

How long have you lived in your place?

Russia is bending over backwards to make Crimea fair for all, something Svoboda, the alternative, is trying to erredicate.

Can trace my family back about 500 years from within 100 miles of where I live.

I am talking present day the people that are ALIVE today, not everybody lives in the past.

I am not trying to be obtuse, do you mean how long have I lived where I have or how long there has been Scots in Scotland?

We were talking about present day Crimean Tartars and then everybody talked about native americans and aboriginies then you brought up people dead 500 years ago.

I like to live in the present day aiming for the future, not live in the past.

This isn't about kicking Crimean Tartars from Crimea, they are simply giving them their own land, free, LEGALLY, prior to this they squatted on land that wasn't theirs and I am not referring to Crimea generally.

Talk about hyperbole and twisting facts to make Russia the evil empire when in fact they are giving them land, preserving their culture and protecting them from Svoboda nutcases.

reply to post by trinityschild


I like learning history and am not familiar with the details of that part of the world .I have probably learned more in the past 2 weeks then all of my entire life so far .The west is notorious for having a less then accurate view of history around the world and although will admit to there errors of the past usually don't do anything to correct it . Canada had a Royal Commission on Aboriginal affairs and the 10000 page document was then put on a shelf and the many recommendations it made were never looked at . It's a great source to find facts and is quite heart breaking to read the storied ..

the2ofusr1
reply to post by Nolimits

 

A good example to be educated on is the Royal Proclamation of 1763 . The US does not like that document one bit .

But I bet the US did like the freedoms and security gained by the death of British Soldiers in the French and Indian Wars. Proving, beyond doubt, that even without the US government, Americans are purely self interested and totally untrustworthy.

bubab

trinityschild

bubab

trinityschild

bubab

trinityschild

the2ofusr1
reply to post by bubab

 

Notice how even they obscure the question ..I am in favor of Russians actions for the tartars not for the actions against .In this case Russia is actually doing something for them ...strange colored glasses some weare ..

How long have they lived there?, that is a genuine question by the way.

If it is a few weeks even months then there might be a point but as far as I am aware this historically is their land. Now if I am wrong then I am sorry, this is not trolling I am happy to be educated and to understand your point of view.

How long have you lived in your place?

Russia is bending over backwards to make Crimea fair for all, something Svoboda, the alternative, is trying to erredicate.

Can trace my family back about 500 years from within 100 miles of where I live.

I am talking present day the people that are ALIVE today, not everybody lives in the past.

I am not trying to be obtuse, do you mean how long have I lived where I have or how long there has been Scots in Scotland?

We were talking about present day Crimean Tartars and then everybody talked about native americans and aboriginies then you brought up people dead 500 years ago.

I like to live in the present day aiming for the future, not live in the past.

Ok got you then my peoples have lived on the planet earth for 10s of thousands of years. But seriously the Scots have been a mixture of ethnic strains for a long time, we have never had to face the wholesale slaughter like the native Americans or the tartars have had too just for trying to live on the bones of their ancestors.

To take this back on track you think what you think and your view is one that no one will be able to debate with you, like I say I was happy to learn.

trinityschild

bubab

trinityschild

bubab

trinityschild

bubab

trinityschild

the2ofusr1
reply to post by bubab

 

Notice how even they obscure the question ..I am in favor of Russians actions for the tartars not for the actions against .In this case Russia is actually doing something for them ...strange colored glasses some weare ..

How long have they lived there?, that is a genuine question by the way.

If it is a few weeks even months then there might be a point but as far as I am aware this historically is their land. Now if I am wrong then I am sorry, this is not trolling I am happy to be educated and to understand your point of view.

How long have you lived in your place?

Russia is bending over backwards to make Crimea fair for all, something Svoboda, the alternative, is trying to erredicate.

Can trace my family back about 500 years from within 100 miles of where I live.

I am talking present day the people that are ALIVE today, not everybody lives in the past.

I am not trying to be obtuse, do you mean how long have I lived where I have or how long there has been Scots in Scotland?

We were talking about present day Crimean Tartars and then everybody talked about native americans and aboriginies then you brought up people dead 500 years ago.

I like to live in the present day aiming for the future, not live in the past.

Ok got you then my peoples have lived on the planet earth for 10s of thousands of years. But seriously the Scots have been a mixture of ethnic strains for a long time, we have never had to face the wholesale slaughter like the native Americans or the tartars have had too just for trying to live on the bones of their ancestors.

To take this back on track you think what you think and your view is one that no one will be able to debate with you, like I say I was happy to learn.

"My people", you think they're your peasants or summat?

There is very few "PURE people" on the planet any more.

Which btw is what Svoboda want, pure ukranians, lol, good luck with that.

Nolimits
But I bet the US did like the freedoms and security gained by the death of British Soldiers in the French and Indian Wars. Proving, beyond doubt, that even with the US government, Americans are purely self interested and totally untrustworthy.

Can you get anymore antiquated in relevancy?

If we are going to use ancient history let's give Crimea back to the Goths.

They after all took it in (AD 250)

reply to post by Nolimits


You shouldn't base your opinions of true Americans on old history or what happens in Washington DC. The "elected" officials are out of touch with what most Americans want and need. But the thread isn't about America so I'll digress.

-SAP-

SloAnPainful
reply to post by Nolimits

 

You shouldn't base your opinions of true Americans on old history or what happens in Washington DC. The "elected" officials are out of touch with what most Americans want and need. But the thread isn't about America so I'll digress.

-SAP-

edit on 19-3-2014 by SloAnPainful because: (no reason given)

But when an American does it, it's all good though, yeah?

Nah, that's not how I do things, I'll base my opinion of anything off of anything I so choose.

reply to post by Nolimits

Hey Canada doesn't like the document either .The US and Canada had no intention on being bound by it as far as I can tell .A interesting fact I read about a few years back was that former Prime-minsters of Canada get a very healthy pension from the US government .The mention of the Five Eyes in the Snowden document is quite telling as to where we are at now .

reply to post by Nolimits


As I stated earlier in this thread, there is no justification of taking land from anyone. Doesn't matter WHO does it or WHEN it occurs or occurred.

But hey you can base your opinions on whatever you want too.

-SAP-

the2ofusr1
reply to post by Nolimits

 

Hey Canada doesn't like the document either .The US and Canada had no intention on being bound by it as far as I can tell .A interesting fact I read about a few years back was that former Prime-minsters of Canada get a very healthy pension from the US government .The mention of the Five Eyes in the Snowden document is quite telling as to where we are at now .

Then Canada can pay back every single pound that went into developing and creating that perfidious nation, and leave the commonwealth.

bubab

trinityschild

bubab

trinityschild

bubab

trinityschild

bubab

trinityschild

the2ofusr1
reply to post by bubab

 

Notice how even they obscure the question ..I am in favor of Russians actions for the tartars not for the actions against .In this case Russia is actually doing something for them ...strange colored glasses some weare ..

How long have they lived there?, that is a genuine question by the way.

If it is a few weeks even months then there might be a point but as far as I am aware this historically is their land. Now if I am wrong then I am sorry, this is not trolling I am happy to be educated and to understand your point of view.

How long have you lived in your place?

Russia is bending over backwards to make Crimea fair for all, something Svoboda, the alternative, is trying to erredicate.

Can trace my family back about 500 years from within 100 miles of where I live.

I am talking present day the people that are ALIVE today, not everybody lives in the past.

I am not trying to be obtuse, do you mean how long have I lived where I have or how long there has been Scots in Scotland?

We were talking about present day Crimean Tartars and then everybody talked about native americans and aboriginies then you brought up people dead 500 years ago.

I like to live in the present day aiming for the future, not live in the past.

Ok got you then my peoples have lived on the planet earth for 10s of thousands of years. But seriously the Scots have been a mixture of ethnic strains for a long time, we have never had to face the wholesale slaughter like the native Americans or the tartars have had too just for trying to live on the bones of their ancestors.

To take this back on track you think what you think and your view is one that no one will be able to debate with you, like I say I was happy to learn.

"My people", you think they're your peasants or summat?

There is very few "PURE people" on the planet any more.

Which btw is what Svoboda want, pure ukranians, lol, good luck with that.

edit on 19-3-2014 by bubab because: (no reason given)

(1) my people was an attempt at a joke, my people=human race=homo sapian sapiens

(2) I already said that i did not agree with Svoboda.

reply to post by Nolimits


I wonder how many were dumb enough to vote for Russia in this last election just to find out they'd be booted?

After all it was a 123 % Unanimous vote, wasn't it???

reply to post by 200Plus

My point was not that atrocities were not committed (by all sides), but that everyone had migrated here.

"All sides"? That migration (a gentle euphemism) was accomplished right over the tops of the dead bodies of "everyone" that was already here.

That kind of a migration is really called Genocide, imo.

reply to post by bubab


I totally agree with your point about the here and now... And being a Native American myself I see no correlation between what happened to my people and what's going on in Crimea right now.

Neither the Turks nor ethnic Russians were indigenous to the region, they all came from other places and settled there.
most of that influx of people moving into the region came about because of the Crimean War.

Still...There was always bad blood between the factions only made worse after WWII.
Stalin did a lot of bad things to a lot of diverse people.

If anything I believe the new PTB want the Tatars out because they would be more aligned with the Ukraine's government than they would be to Russian authority who's never been known look kindly on them


One of those, "Get rid of the trouble makers before they cause any mischief' deals

HardCorps
reply to post by bubab

 

I totally agree with your point about the here and now... And being a Native American myself I see no correlation between what happened to my people and what's going on in Crimea right now.

Neither the Turks nor ethnic Russians were indigenous to the region, they all came from other places and settled there.
most of that influx of people moving into the region came about because of the Crimean War.

Still...There was always bad blood between the factions only made worse after WWII.
Stalin did a lot of bad things to a lot of diverse people.

If anything I believe the new PTB want the Tatars out because they would be more aligned with the Ukraine's government than they would be to Russian authority who's never been known look kindly on them


One of those, "Get rid of the trouble makers before they cause any mischief' deals

edit on 19-3-2014 by HardCorps because: (no reason given)

Yeah I hear Svoboda will welcome non-Ukranians, erm, Crimean Tartars with welcome opened nooses.

They will probably be given a warm molotov party.

siluriancryptic
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Most of the tatars after WWII were rounded up and sent to Siberia to be exterminated in Gulags,because they worked for the Nazis.Millions of Tatars were exterminated by Stalin. What do you think?

Correct. But I'll add that this treatment wasn't exclusive to the Tatars. Most of the ethnic minorities of Russia were subjected to massive deportation, with large swathes of the population dying in the process. It was a genocide, pure and simple. The "they worked for the Nazis" stuff was used as a stock excuse. What they really wanted was to pave the way for an unified soviet identity.

bubab
It looks like where they were living was illegal and they are simply correcting that and giving them new land LEGALLY. If they take this new land, nobody can take it from them as it is now theirs, legally. Currently they are occupying illegal land area, that is from the article so I am just actually reading it and quoting it.

But what, and where, will their new legal land be? Will the whole community be assigned a new district? Will an official "Crimean Tatar territory" be created?

Or, as I fear, will they be relocated all over Crimea. In other words, dispersed. Forced settlements, being energetically "integrated" in Crimea. You know...ethnic cleansing.

What the USSR did in the 40s.

reply to post by intrptr


Yes European migrations went right over the top of the people the found in North America. We are finding that the "Native Americans" may have done the same to earlier migration peoples along the eastern seaboard. Pre-clovis peoples migrating from the east. That was genocide as well was it not? Or will you deny that as it doesn't fit into the "poor me, I need sympathy" argument? And this has zero to do with Crimea BTW

reply to post by bubab


Svoboda are not "in power", they hold 4 Ministry positions out of 20 and I am finding it extremely hard to find any news source, be it Russian, British, French or Tutsi which says that they are outlawing anything to do with Tartars.

Care to furnish us with any links?

As for the OP, Tartars have lived in the are for longer Russians have and were forced off their land and had their population decimated during the Soviet era, so if anyone should be "reclaiming Crimea" it should be them, not the Russians and there is no love lost between the two.