Silent Epidemic; The Untold Story of Vaccines Movie dire

reply to post by Pardon?


continued:

Investigative journalists have researched these issues ad nauseum and found the pharma companies severely wanting. Historical data is extremely damning and yet pro-vaccine people seem to want to look past all the bad that pharma companies have done and strive head fast into whatever they are pushing today.

You ask why there is no scientific evidence that vaccines are bad….I ask…who would do those studies? Ford motor company? Their competition?

Is the CDC or FDA going to research these issues? They are staffed by ex-pharma executives….are they going to damn the companies that made them millionaires? They not only would not but were put into those positions because they never would.

Your mentioned a Tyson quote that “Science doesn’t lie”….
but I give you a Carl Sagan quote: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

Just because there isn’t scientific studies showing how dangerous vaccines are….doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous.

Listen to the investigative journalists on the subject and see where they get their information and what that information is.

Statistics don’t lie, statisticians do. Science doesn’t lie, scientists do.

Here is some reading:
www.vaccinesuncensored.org...
drsuzanne.net...

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by Pardon?

 

continued:

Investigative journalists have researched these issues ad nauseum and found the pharma companies severely wanting. Historical data is extremely damning and yet pro-vaccine people seem to want to look past all the bad that pharma companies have done and strive head fast into whatever they are pushing today.

You ask why there is no scientific evidence that vaccines are bad….I ask…who would do those studies? Ford motor company? Their competition?

Is the CDC or FDA going to research these issues? They are staffed by ex-pharma executives….are they going to damn the companies that made them millionaires? They not only would not but were put into those positions because they never would.

Your mentioned a Tyson quote that “Science doesn’t lie”….
but I give you a Carl Sagan quote: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

Just because there isn’t scientific studies showing how dangerous vaccines are….doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous.

Listen to the investigative journalists on the subject and see where they get their information and what that information is.

Statistics don’t lie, statisticians do. Science doesn’t lie, scientists do.

Here is some reading:
www.vaccinesuncensored.org...
drsuzanne.net...

You need to understand how to use someone's quote in context as the one alleged from Sagan actually goes against what you say.
That quote means it is significantly more likely to not see evidence for a hypothesis when it is false than to not see it when it's true so the reason we aren't seeing the evidence of harm is that there isn't much to see.

The rest is conspiratorial nonsense I'm afraid.
I'm more than happy to go through each one in the vaccineuncensored link for you if you wish.
There aren't scientific studies showing that vaccines make you psychic, does that mean that vaccines make you psychic?

What you have to factor is that there is an awful lot of money in the anti-vax business and the fact that they have not been able to produce a study which confirms their claims that vaccines cause everything from autism to infertility says a lot.
If you can't see that then I'm afraid that's more of an issue with you personally and again, it highlights the lack of your knowledge and comprehension in this field.

This nonsensical conspiracy is based on the premise that every scientist who is not anti-vax cannot think for themselves or is in the pockets of big pharma.
I wish I was, I wouldn't have to work so hard.

I've posted the following on another thread but it's pertinent here as well.

"Dear Anti-vaxxer,

You've asked on other threads whether or not us pro-vaxxers would be able to empathize and see things from your point of view.
I'll ask the same of you.

Imagine that you've spent 6 + years of your life studying your ass off so that you can understand the mere basics of biology, chemistry, physiology, pathology, immunology, pharmacology, etc. Because you'd like to be a nurse or a physician. And these are the things you need to know to do your job.

Imagine that through your years of scientific training, frequently studying the available evidence, and relying on the educated opinions of those who are MORE educated than yourself on the matter that you have come to the conclusion that the overwhelming majority of the biomed has come to: that vaccines are safe and effective.

Imagine that while in the course of doing your daily job, you see people who are immunocompromised or unvaccinated become incredibly ill or die of vaccine-preventable diseases and their resulting complications.

Imagine that you then learn that there is a group of people who INTENTIONALLY refuse to vaccinate their kids. Imagine your shock and dismay upon learning this. Imagine trying to engage these people, to find out why they refuse to use what is arguably the greatest innovation of modern medicine.

Imagine that when you engage these people, you hear some arguments that - initially - make you think about vaccination in a different light. They tell you vaccines are poison. They aren't as effective as you are lead to believe. That the government and big pharma only push them for profits. That they aren't actually tested for safety. That these vaccines are responsible for causing a myriad of devastating cognitive issues. They're KILLING KIDS. And you begin to become concerned.

But, at the same time, these people are saying things that you - as a medical professional - know to be untrue. There's people talking about injecting vaccines directly into the bloodstream when you know that they're not given intravenous. There's people saying that there are over 50 different vaccines - when you know that they simply give multiple doses of the same ones. There's people saying bypass the immune system - when you know that they activate the adaptive immune system in order to confer immunity.

So, you think to yourself "if they're wrong about these basic things, are they wrong about these other claims too?"

Imagine that you spend a great deal of your spare time looking into the original claims that first concerned you.
You learn that the "toxins" in vaccines are present in our daily environment in much larger quantities than any vaccine.
You learn that while the pertussis vaccine is waning is effectiveness (75% +), all other vaccines are extremely effective in preventing disease.
You learn that the cost to treat the disease is much much higher than it is to prevent it with a vaccine. And that if pharmaceutical companies really were keen to make as much money off of you as possible, they'd LET you get measles.
You learn that vaccines are thoroughly tested before release, each batch is tested and that their safety and effectiveness is constantly re-evaluated. You read about the switch from whole cell to acellular pertussis vaccine - which lowered the effectiveness but upped the safety.
You learn that a myriad of scientific studies from all over the world provide evidence of no correlation between vaccines and ASD. You learn how the changes to the DSM combined with increased awareness of ASD has contributed to an artificially higher rate of ASD. You read about the heritability of ASD and some of the commonly correlated environmental factors (such as maternal obesity and diabetes).

Imagine that you learn all these things. Imagine that not only can you read all these things, but that your medical training allows you to understand and evaluate claims in a way that laypeople cannot.

Imagine that you happily return to these people who had you so concerned. And you're happy to explain to them how it's okay, and they don't have to be afraid of vaccines - and you can answer all of their concerns and questions.

Imagine that when you do answer them, they ignore you. Or they insist that you must be a shill for a pharmaceutical company. Or an idiot. Or a mindless automaton who is incapable of making up their own minds. Imagine that instead of these people being - as you had originally hoped - relieved and grateful that they didn't have to worry about vaccines anymore, angry and irate that you would dare to contradict them.

Imagine you have to keep dealing with the same mistruths over and over and over. Imagine that you have to explain to people over and over that there is more formaldehyde in an apple than a vaccine. Imagine that you provide people with 20+ studies showing no correlation between ASD and vaccines - and they ignore them.

Imagine that these people start trying to find out where you work. Imagine they send you threatening emails and facebook messages. Imagine that they make up photoshopped pictures just to make fun of you. Imagine that they mass report comments you make to get you banned from facebook. Imagine.

From my point of view, you are intentionally endangering the lives of your loved ones.
And my job is to take care of those loved ones for you."

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by Pardon?

 

continued:

Investigative journalists have researched these issues ad nauseum and found the pharma companies severely wanting. Historical data is extremely damning and yet pro-vaccine people seem to want to look past all the bad that pharma companies have done and strive head fast into whatever they are pushing today.

You ask why there is no scientific evidence that vaccines are bad….I ask…who would do those studies? Ford motor company? Their competition?

Is the CDC or FDA going to research these issues? They are staffed by ex-pharma executives….are they going to damn the companies that made them millionaires? They not only would not but were put into those positions because they never would.

Your mentioned a Tyson quote that “Science doesn’t lie”….
but I give you a Carl Sagan quote: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

Just because there isn’t scientific studies showing how dangerous vaccines are….doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous.

Listen to the investigative journalists on the subject and see where they get their information and what that information is.

Statistics don’t lie, statisticians do. Science doesn’t lie, scientists do.

Here is some reading:
www.vaccinesuncensored.org...
drsuzanne.net...

You need to understand how to use someone's quote in context as the one alleged from Sagan actually goes against what you say.
That quote means it is significantly more likely to not see evidence for a hypothesis when it is false than to not see it when it's true so the reason we aren't seeing the evidence of harm is that there isn't much to see.

The rest is conspiratorial nonsense I'm afraid.
I'm more than happy to go through each one in the vaccineuncensored link for you if you wish.
There aren't scientific studies showing that vaccines make you psychic, does that mean that vaccines make you psychic?

What you have to factor is that there is an awful lot of money in the anti-vax business and the fact that they have not been able to produce a study which confirms their claims that vaccines cause everything from autism to infertility says a lot.
If you can't see that then I'm afraid that's more of an issue with you personally and again, it highlights the lack of your knowledge and comprehension in this field.

This nonsensical conspiracy is based on the premise that every scientist who is not anti-vax cannot think for themselves or is in the pockets of big pharma.
I wish I was, I wouldn't have to work so hard.

I've posted the following on another thread but it's pertinent here as well.

"Dear Anti-vaxxer,

You've asked on other threads whether or not us pro-vaxxers would be able to empathize and see things from your point of view.
I'll ask the same of you.

Imagine that you've spent 6 + years of your life studying your ass off so that you can understand the mere basics of biology, chemistry, physiology, pathology, immunology, pharmacology, etc. Because you'd like to be a nurse or a physician. And these are the things you need to know to do your job.

Imagine that through your years of scientific training, frequently studying the available evidence, and relying on the educated opinions of those who are MORE educated than yourself on the matter that you have come to the conclusion that the overwhelming majority of the biomed has come to: that vaccines are safe and effective.

Imagine that while in the course of doing your daily job, you see people who are immunocompromised or unvaccinated become incredibly ill or die of vaccine-preventable diseases and their resulting complications.

Imagine that you then learn that there is a group of people who INTENTIONALLY refuse to vaccinate their kids. Imagine your shock and dismay upon learning this. Imagine trying to engage these people, to find out why they refuse to use what is arguably the greatest innovation of modern medicine.

Imagine that when you engage these people, you hear some arguments that - initially - make you think about vaccination in a different light. They tell you vaccines are poison. They aren't as effective as you are lead to believe. That the government and big pharma only push them for profits. That they aren't actually tested for safety. That these vaccines are responsible for causing a myriad of devastating cognitive issues. They're KILLING KIDS. And you begin to become concerned.

But, at the same time, these people are saying things that you - as a medical professional - know to be untrue. There's people talking about injecting vaccines directly into the bloodstream when you know that they're not given intravenous. There's people saying that there are over 50 different vaccines - when you know that they simply give multiple doses of the same ones. There's people saying bypass the immune system - when you know that they activate the adaptive immune system in order to confer immunity.

So, you think to yourself "if they're wrong about these basic things, are they wrong about these other claims too?"

Imagine that you spend a great deal of your spare time looking into the original claims that first concerned you.
You learn that the "toxins" in vaccines are present in our daily environment in much larger quantities than any vaccine.
You learn that while the pertussis vaccine is waning is effectiveness (75% +), all other vaccines are extremely effective in preventing disease.
You learn that the cost to treat the disease is much much higher than it is to prevent it with a vaccine. And that if pharmaceutical companies really were keen to make as much money off of you as possible, they'd LET you get measles.
You learn that vaccines are thoroughly tested before release, each batch is tested and that their safety and effectiveness is constantly re-evaluated. You read about the switch from whole cell to acellular pertussis vaccine - which lowered the effectiveness but upped the safety.
You learn that a myriad of scientific studies from all over the world provide evidence of no correlation between vaccines and ASD. You learn how the changes to the DSM combined with increased awareness of ASD has contributed to an artificially higher rate of ASD. You read about the heritability of ASD and some of the commonly correlated environmental factors (such as maternal obesity and diabetes).

Imagine that you learn all these things. Imagine that not only can you read all these things, but that your medical training allows you to understand and evaluate claims in a way that laypeople cannot.

Imagine that you happily return to these people who had you so concerned. And you're happy to explain to them how it's okay, and they don't have to be afraid of vaccines - and you can answer all of their concerns and questions.

Imagine that when you do answer them, they ignore you. Or they insist that you must be a shill for a pharmaceutical company. Or an idiot. Or a mindless automaton who is incapable of making up their own minds. Imagine that instead of these people being - as you had originally hoped - relieved and grateful that they didn't have to worry about vaccines anymore, angry and irate that you would dare to contradict them.

Imagine you have to keep dealing with the same mistruths over and over and over. Imagine that you have to explain to people over and over that there is more formaldehyde in an apple than a vaccine. Imagine that you provide people with 20+ studies showing no correlation between ASD and vaccines - and they ignore them.

Imagine that these people start trying to find out where you work. Imagine they send you threatening emails and facebook messages. Imagine that they make up photoshopped pictures just to make fun of you. Imagine that they mass report comments you make to get you banned from facebook. Imagine.

From my point of view, you are intentionally endangering the lives of your loved ones.
And my job is to take care of those loved ones for you."

ahhh....got it. You are personally vested in the medical field as you have spent years "studying" it and are employed in it.

keep towing that line and putting people in danger with your toxic injections!!

Your last sentence is laughable at best.....I don't want you taking care of me or my family as far as general health goes.

If a cut a finger off or get into a car wreck....then you can be involved.

Now go study some nutrition and gain the respect of everyone who distrusts you

UxoriousMagnus


Just because there isn’t scientific studies showing how dangerous vaccines are….doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous.

"No amount of evidence will change my position"

Right.

My son began his first symptoms of Autism within 2 weeks after receiving his first set of vaccinations. About 2.5 years later we ran him through a week long battery of tests at a major children's hospital hundreds of miles away in which it was determined that he does in fact have ASD. He'll be 12 this year and that was the last vaccination he has received. The decision not to continue vaccinations came from both his mother and I.

Our decision was partially based on an opinion from a close relative (in the medical profession) who had previously avoided vaccines for her son altogether. She had told us of the growing concern about Autism frequency in boys, and that given what she has witness she was not taking a chance. Also, due to the fact mentioned above.

Label me however you wish, I could care less.

Who knows what is causing it really? Just until you have an answer don't bark up my tree.

UxoriousMagnus

ahhh....got it. You are personally vested in the medical field as you have spent years "studying" it and are employed in it.

keep towing that line and putting people in danger with your toxic injections!!

Your last sentence is laughable at best.....I don't want you taking care of me or my family as far as general health goes.

If a cut a finger off or get into a car wreck....then you can be involved.

Now go study some nutrition and gain the respect of everyone who distrusts you

You need to take more care when reading posts else you wouldn't have confused what I posted as being from me and realised that it was indeed from a paediatrician.
A paediatrician who is having to spend more and more time explaining to people who have visited the universities of Google and Youtube and who think they know more about medicine than they do. His time could be utilised elsewhere.

You are a classic case of this.
You lie to people pretending that you understand aspects of medicine in order to sway them to your belief system.
In fact, wasn't it you who started a thread and lied about 2 of your "friends" miscarrying just so you could bash vaccines?
And YOU have the gall to talk about trust?
Very twisted.


Now I realise you're too far where the sun don't shine to change your mind about vaccines but the reason I argue against you is in case people who are on the fence read these threads.

What you don't realise is that because of you and your ilk's bizarre belief system you put children in danger.
Danger which can be proven.
This far outweighs the imaginary dangers that the anti-vax brigade have been trying to prove for decades now.
Don't you think that with all the litigation money, Mercola's money, Mike Adam's money that you would have been able to show just one by now?
The fact that they haven't speaks volumes.

Your distrust isn't of the medical field as it's patently obvious you don't have the first clue about the science involved.

csimon
My son began his first symptoms of Autism within 2 weeks after receiving his first set of vaccinations. About 2.5 years later we ran him through a week long battery of tests at a major children's hospital hundreds of miles away in which it was determined that he does in fact have ASD. He'll be 12 this year and that was the last vaccination he has received. The decision not to continue vaccinations came from both his mother and I.

Our decision was partially based on an opinion from a close relative (in the medical profession) who had previously avoided vaccines for her son altogether. She had told us of the growing concern about Autism frequency in boys, and that given what she has witness she was not taking a chance. Also, due to the fact mentioned above.

Label me however you wish, I could care less.

Who knows what is causing it really? Just until you have an answer don't bark up my tree.

edit on 23-3-2014 by csimon because: added slight detail

There are lots of theories as to what causes autism.
From what I can gather there isn't just one definitive cause but several factors, some needing to be concurrent.

What I'm very sure about though is that autism isn't caused by vaccines.

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

ahhh....got it. You are personally vested in the medical field as you have spent years "studying" it and are employed in it.

keep towing that line and putting people in danger with your toxic injections!!

Your last sentence is laughable at best.....I don't want you taking care of me or my family as far as general health goes.

If a cut a finger off or get into a car wreck....then you can be involved.

Now go study some nutrition and gain the respect of everyone who distrusts you

You need to take more care when reading posts else you wouldn't have confused what I posted as being from me and realised that it was indeed from a paediatrician.
A paediatrician who is having to spend more and more time explaining to people who have visited the universities of Google and Youtube and who think they know more about medicine than they do. His time could be utilised elsewhere.

You are a classic case of this.
You lie to people pretending that you understand aspects of medicine in order to sway them to your belief system.
In fact, wasn't it you who started a thread and lied about 2 of your "friends" miscarrying just so you could bash vaccines?
And YOU have the gall to talk about trust?
Very twisted.


Now I realise you're too far where the sun don't shine to change your mind about vaccines but the reason I argue against you is in case people who are on the fence read these threads.

What you don't realise is that because of you and your ilk's bizarre belief system you put children in danger.
Danger which can be proven.
This far outweighs the imaginary dangers that the anti-vax brigade have been trying to prove for decades now.
Don't you think that with all the litigation money, Mercola's money, Mike Adam's money that you would have been able to show just one by now?
The fact that they haven't speaks volumes.

Your distrust isn't of the medical field as it's patently obvious you don't have the first clue about the science involved.

now you are calling me a liar. You pro vaccine people sure are nice people just trying to save all the innocent children.

You always make personal attacks. You always show your true colors.

It is like religious zeal for you people.

Why would you care so much about it. It is irrational.

Anyone can look up that polio was in decline before the vaccine. Its was due to better living conditions and hygiene not vaccines. That is why it was in decline even in England (where vaccination was very limited) at the same time it was declining in America.

Same as above for every other childhood disease. THis info is well documented and lamented by doctors and scientists.

Scarlet fever also declined at the same time.....but no vaccine existed at the time and still doesn't exist today.

You people refuse to try to answer why cancer, autism and other illnesses have skyrocketed since the introduction of mass vaccination schemes but "what you are sure of" is that it isn't vaccines fault.

You lack critical thinking....not your fault...the public school system in the west has drained that from most of us. It replaced critical thinking with undying trust in the government and large corporations. This is what school is for.

They were successful with you.

P.S. I have never lied on any thread or post. I have been wrong before but never lied. That is for you to do.

GetHyped

UxoriousMagnus


Just because there isn’t scientific studies showing how dangerous vaccines are….doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous.

"No amount of evidence will change my position"

Right.

you get shot in the face with a nail gun and a day later after all efforts to keep you alive, you die. The doctors throw their hands up and say...."we don't know why he died but it couldn't be from the nail gun to the face."

this is what doctors do with vaccines....kid comes to the doctor...healthy as a horse....gets a vaccine....day later, week later, has autism, seizures or is dead but the doctors just throw up their hands and say "not sure why it happened but we for sure know that vaccine wasn't the reason."

So then parents start asking questions, as do some more curious doctors. What they find...the CDC and FDA and all the big pharma companies saying the exact same things....almost like from a script.

"There are no studies showing vaccines to be dangerous, don't put your kids in danger by refusing vaccines, you want your kid to get polio?, herd immunity and on and on and on."

George Bernard Shaw was a total commie and is not someone I look up to but here is what he said in 1944 in an interview with the Irish Times:

"At present, intelligent people do not have their children vaccinated. The result is not, as the Jennerians prophesied the extermination of the human race by smallpox, on the contrary more people are now killed by vaccinations than by smallpox."

Twenty-five years ago being the "good mother" I was, I played by the rules and had my daughter fully vaccinated according to schedule. Two years later, a little older and wiser, I decided to wait on certain immunizations until after my son was two years old, closely modeling it to the Japanese vaccination schedule. I was HIGHLY criticized by many in the health care field on my decision, luckily my son was pretty healthy so I steered clear of most doctors offices.

Now having a two year old granddaughter, I am shocked at the amount of vaccinations the health care industry wants to give these little guys. My daughter has done her research, and picks and chooses which ones to give her, which aren't many. I applaud her and many mothers in her age group that are standing up and saying no to these poisons.

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?
You need to take more care when reading posts else you wouldn't have confused what I posted as being from me and realised that it was indeed from a paediatrician.
A paediatrician who is having to spend more and more time explaining to people who have visited the universities of Google and Youtube and who think they know more about medicine than they do. His time could be utilised elsewhere.

You are a classic case of this.
You lie to people pretending that you understand aspects of medicine in order to sway them to your belief system.
In fact, wasn't it you who started a thread and lied about 2 of your "friends" miscarrying just so you could bash vaccines?
And YOU have the gall to talk about trust?
Very twisted.

Now I realise you're too far where the sun don't shine to change your mind about vaccines but the reason I argue against you is in case people who are on the fence read these threads.

What you don't realise is that because of you and your ilk's bizarre belief system you put children in danger.
Danger which can be proven.
This far outweighs the imaginary dangers that the anti-vax brigade have been trying to prove for decades now.
Don't you think that with all the litigation money, Mercola's money, Mike Adam's money that you would have been able to show just one by now?
The fact that they haven't speaks volumes.

Your distrust isn't of the medical field as it's patently obvious you don't have the first clue about the science involved.

now you are calling me a liar. You pro vaccine people sure are nice people just trying to save all the innocent children.

You always make personal attacks. You always show your true colors.

It is like religious zeal for you people.

Why would you care so much about it. It is irrational.

Anyone can look up that polio was in decline before the vaccine. Its was due to better living conditions and hygiene not vaccines. That is why it was in decline even in England (where vaccination was very limited) at the same time it was declining in America.

Same as above for every other childhood disease. THis info is well documented and lamented by doctors and scientists.

Scarlet fever also declined at the same time.....but no vaccine existed at the time and still doesn't exist today.

You people refuse to try to answer why cancer, autism and other illnesses have skyrocketed since the introduction of mass vaccination schemes but "what you are sure of" is that it isn't vaccines fault.

You lack critical thinking....not your fault...the public school system in the west has drained that from most of us. It replaced critical thinking with undying trust in the government and large corporations. This is what school is for.

They were successful with you.

P.S. I have never lied on any thread or post. I have been wrong before but never lied. That is for you to do.

You pretended to know tons about vaccines and medicine. That's patently a lie.
You lied about the two miscarriages.
What else have you lied about?

It's certainly true that better living conditions impacted on the decline of polio but up until the vaccine was introduced it was still very prevalent. And whilst the MORTALITY dropped virtually to zero due to the improving medical care the INCIDENCE was still significant.
You really need to start understanding the difference between INCIDENCE and MORTALITY.
Here's some info from a polio survivors website about the impact of vaccines on polio incidence and mortality.
www.poliosurvivorsnetwork.org.uk...
As you can see although there was a slow decline in incidence, it increased slightly then plateaued and only went into a sharp decline when the vaccine was introduced.
So another myth busted.
Oh, and where do you get "That is why it was in decline even in England (where vaccination was very limited)"? Are you lying about that? Have you just made it up as it's completely incorrect.

As for scarlet fever, being a bacterial infection means it will be harder to produce a viable vaccine against it however antibiotic therapy has been a major factor in the reduction of its incidence.
As for it's decline...you may be surprised to learn that it's incidence has actually started to rise again in the UK, albeit sporadically.
www.patient.co.uk...-4

UxoriousMagnus
"You people refuse to try to answer why cancer, autism and other illnesses have skyrocketed since the introduction of mass vaccination schemes but "what you are sure of" is that it isn't vaccines fault."

Correlation and causation, look it up. Although you should know about it since you've done all the research.

"You people" are focussed on the belief that vaccines cause everything but completely fail to take into account the myriad of other factors involved, population age increase, socio-economic, environmental, genetic propagation etc etc .
"You people", instead of reaching conclusions based upon science and evidence have fabricated a conclusion and are now trying to make the evidence fit.
If that's not irrational I don't know what is. It's certainly the definition of anti-science.
I'm sure that it's not vaccines fault as there's been tons of research which shows no causality.

Now getting onto cancers as you've mentioned it specifically.
How do vaccines cause cancer?
What cancers do they cause?
Which vaccines cause these?
Naturally I'll expect you to provide evidence for this.

You mentioned religious zeal. I would actually turn that around on you and say since religion is based solely upon belief and does not require facts or evidence then it's more akin to the anti-vax mentality rather than the other way around.
Irrespective of the evidence, facts and science, there are still people who believe vaccines are bad. If that's not a religious-like belief then I don't know what is.

So why do I do it?
I do it as I'm sick of misinformed conspiracy nuts putting children's lives in danger.
I've seen too many kids in PICU's who didn't need to be there because they had a vaccine preventable disease.

However the real question is, why do YOU do it?
By "it" I mean spread lies and misinformation about a subject you know nothing about whilst pretending you do?
Ok, I can sort of understand your conspiracy mindset, as wrong as it is but do you not understand the harm you're doing?
jennymccarthybodycount.com...
Do you just ignore those figures?
Do you believe that random testimonials on anti-vax sites constitute evidence?
And you call me irrational?

Have a read of this. If there's anything you need clarification on then ask.
www.febrilnotropeni.net...

UxoriousMagnus

GetHyped

UxoriousMagnus


Just because there isn’t scientific studies showing how dangerous vaccines are….doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous.

"No amount of evidence will change my position"

Right.

you get shot in the face with a nail gun and a day later after all efforts to keep you alive, you die. The doctors throw their hands up and say...."we don't know why he died but it couldn't be from the nail gun to the face."

this is what doctors do with vaccines....kid comes to the doctor...healthy as a horse....gets a vaccine....day later, week later, has autism, seizures or is dead but the doctors just throw up their hands and say "not sure why it happened but we for sure know that vaccine wasn't the reason."

So then parents start asking questions, as do some more curious doctors. What they find...the CDC and FDA and all the big pharma companies saying the exact same things....almost like from a script.

"There are no studies showing vaccines to be dangerous, don't put your kids in danger by refusing vaccines, you want your kid to get polio?, herd immunity and on and on and on."

George Bernard Shaw was a total commie and is not someone I look up to but here is what he said in 1944 in an interview with the Irish Times:

"At present, intelligent people do not have their children vaccinated. The result is not, as the Jennerians prophesied the extermination of the human race by smallpox, on the contrary more people are now killed by vaccinations than by smallpox."

George Bernard Shaw also thought bacteriology was a superstition and that germ theory was a farce.
And what aspect of medicine or science did he specialise in again?
What? He was a playwright? Oh...

Here's another quote from that same article;
"My own education has been entirely controversial: that is why I know what I am writing about; and appear eccentric to dogmatically educated Old School Ties whose heads are stuffed with obsolete shibboleths".
Sound familiar?
Dunning-Kruger anyone?

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

GetHyped

UxoriousMagnus


Just because there isn’t scientific studies showing how dangerous vaccines are….doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous.

"No amount of evidence will change my position"

Right.

you get shot in the face with a nail gun and a day later after all efforts to keep you alive, you die. The doctors throw their hands up and say...."we don't know why he died but it couldn't be from the nail gun to the face."

this is what doctors do with vaccines....kid comes to the doctor...healthy as a horse....gets a vaccine....day later, week later, has autism, seizures or is dead but the doctors just throw up their hands and say "not sure why it happened but we for sure know that vaccine wasn't the reason."

So then parents start asking questions, as do some more curious doctors. What they find...the CDC and FDA and all the big pharma companies saying the exact same things....almost like from a script.

"There are no studies showing vaccines to be dangerous, don't put your kids in danger by refusing vaccines, you want your kid to get polio?, herd immunity and on and on and on."

George Bernard Shaw was a total commie and is not someone I look up to but here is what he said in 1944 in an interview with the Irish Times:

"At present, intelligent people do not have their children vaccinated. The result is not, as the Jennerians prophesied the extermination of the human race by smallpox, on the contrary more people are now killed by vaccinations than by smallpox."

George Bernard Shaw also thought bacteriology was a superstition and that germ theory was a farce.
And what aspect of medicine or science did he specialise in again?
What? He was a playwright? Oh...

Here's another quote from that same article;
"My own education has been entirely controversial: that is why I know what I am writing about; and appear eccentric to dogmatically educated Old School Ties whose heads are stuffed with obsolete shibboleths".
Sound familiar?
Dunning-Kruger anyone?

well...I do thank you.....because I haven't had such a good laugh in quite some time as when chatting back and forth with you.

Enjoy....whatever it is you do

p.s. make sure you give to the Gates Foundation so they can continue their very successful vaccination campaign in the third world.

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

GetHyped

UxoriousMagnus


Just because there isn’t scientific studies showing how dangerous vaccines are….doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous.

"No amount of evidence will change my position"

Right.

you get shot in the face with a nail gun and a day later after all efforts to keep you alive, you die. The doctors throw their hands up and say...."we don't know why he died but it couldn't be from the nail gun to the face."

this is what doctors do with vaccines....kid comes to the doctor...healthy as a horse....gets a vaccine....day later, week later, has autism, seizures or is dead but the doctors just throw up their hands and say "not sure why it happened but we for sure know that vaccine wasn't the reason."

So then parents start asking questions, as do some more curious doctors. What they find...the CDC and FDA and all the big pharma companies saying the exact same things....almost like from a script.

"There are no studies showing vaccines to be dangerous, don't put your kids in danger by refusing vaccines, you want your kid to get polio?, herd immunity and on and on and on."

George Bernard Shaw was a total commie and is not someone I look up to but here is what he said in 1944 in an interview with the Irish Times:

"At present, intelligent people do not have their children vaccinated. The result is not, as the Jennerians prophesied the extermination of the human race by smallpox, on the contrary more people are now killed by vaccinations than by smallpox."

George Bernard Shaw also thought bacteriology was a superstition and that germ theory was a farce.
And what aspect of medicine or science did he specialise in again?
What? He was a playwright? Oh...

Here's another quote from that same article;
"My own education has been entirely controversial: that is why I know what I am writing about; and appear eccentric to dogmatically educated Old School Ties whose heads are stuffed with obsolete shibboleths".
Sound familiar?
Dunning-Kruger anyone?

well...I do thank you.....because I haven't had such a good laugh in quite some time as when chatting back and forth with you.

Enjoy....whatever it is you do

p.s. make sure you give to the Gates Foundation so they can continue their very successful vaccination campaign in the third world.

Ah, bowing out of the thread as you can't counter what I've written.
It's probably for the best before you make yourself look even more ridiculous and callous.
Although I can't say I'm glad you think that regurgitating harmful lies and misinformation is funny but then anti-vaxxers are a very strange lot indeed.

By the way, Polio Eradicated in India
A major achievement in world health which was helped by the Gates Foundation.
If it was down to you and your band of selfish, tin-foil hat-adorned luddites the crutch manufacturers would be doing a roaring trade over there and everywhere else for that matter.

reply to post by Pardon?


Well someone had to bow out, can't stay in this thread forever. Anti-vaxxers are far from stupid. In the scheme of life, vaccinations are but a blip on the screen. Only time will tell the whole tale. I believe they have some benefits, but the long term, and even short term for some, effects have not been fully studied to their most thoroughness. When the companies that make the money on pharmaceuticals are the only ones doing the testing, there is an obvious bias. No matter what, the company has a bottom line and they make every effort to make money. I've personally read many studies on vaccines from over the past 70 years and the facts and stats fluctuate depending on the researcher, not to mention, the criteria they are trying to prove.

I believe the wisest of humans try not to draw lines in the sand on anything, as they know that facts do change with time.

SunnyDee
reply to post by Pardon?

 

Well someone had to bow out, can't stay in this thread forever. Anti-vaxxers are far from stupid. In the scheme of life, vaccinations are but a blip on the screen. Only time will tell the whole tale. I believe they have some benefits, but the long term, and even short term for some, effects have not been fully studied to their most thoroughness. When the companies that make the money on pharmaceuticals are the only ones doing the testing, there is an obvious bias. No matter what, the company has a bottom line and they make every effort to make money. I've personally read many studies on vaccines from over the past 70 years and the facts and stats fluctuate depending on the researcher, not to mention, the criteria they are trying to prove.

I believe the wisest of humans try not to draw lines in the sand on anything, as they know that facts do change with time.

The poster bowed out as they were unable to back up what they said.
And whilst anti-vaxxers may not be stupid, their understanding of medical science leaves a lot to the imagination and is akin more to a belief system.

Lots of myths in your post as well though.

What do you consider to be long-term?
Vaccinations have been around since 1796.
MMR has been around since 1971.

What do you mean by "not been fully studied"?
In your mind what would constitute being "fully studied"?

It's a falsehood that all vaccine studies are sponsored by pharma.
That's completely wrong.
There have been plenty of independent studies into the safety and efficacy of vaccines.
This is a good place to start
omicsonline.org...
and here
www.scirp.org...
And there's plenty of others if you care to look around properly.

SunnyDee
I've personally read many studies on vaccines from over the past 70 years and the facts and stats fluctuate depending on the researcher, not to mention, the criteria they are trying to prove.

That's a very woolly statement. If the studies are using the same source facts and stats to base their studies on then they will be the same. If they're different, someone is being disingenuous.
If they're using different sources then their facts and stats will be different. It will then go down to how robust the original material sources were. The whole composition of a study has to be read and understood in order to make a valid conclusion about it. If any aspect of the study process is invalid for some reason, it invalidates the whole study.
Can you cite the studies which have been the same or very similar and have had different results so I can take a look?

SunnyDee
I believe the wisest of humans try not to draw lines in the sand on anything, as they know that facts do change with time.

So by that logic the anti-vax brigade aren't wise since they keep on propagating the same old nonsense when it's factually incorrect and proven false?

SunnyDee
reply to post by Pardon?

 

Well someone had to bow out, can't stay in this thread forever. Anti-vaxxers are far from stupid. In the scheme of life, vaccinations are but a blip on the screen. Only time will tell the whole tale. I believe they have some benefits, but the long term, and even short term for some, effects have not been fully studied to their most thoroughness. When the companies that make the money on pharmaceuticals are the only ones doing the testing, there is an obvious bias. No matter what, the company has a bottom line and they make every effort to make money. I've personally read many studies on vaccines from over the past 70 years and the facts and stats fluctuate depending on the researcher, not to mention, the criteria they are trying to prove.

I believe the wisest of humans try not to draw lines in the sand on anything, as they know that facts do change with time.

It has to do with not wanting to communicate with someone who resorts to name calling (liar, uneducated, stupid, tin foil hat, this list is too long to even put all of them here) ....instead of just debating the subject.

It is obvious that Pardon has some knowledge on vaccines but refuses to even look at doctors and scientists that question them.

Pardon refuses to use any sort of critical thinking to try to connect dots and investigate concerns that people have.

An example of this is the above mention of the Gates Foundation and India's claim of Polio eradication. Pardon would never mention the tens of thousands of people getting polio like paralysis that many doctors and scientists are worried could be caused by the very vaccine they are using to eradicate Polio.

I just don't have the time or desire to talk with someone like that...

but I did like your thread and subject.....

take care Sunny.....awesome Avatar by the way....had to show my wife and my three un-vaccinated kids

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


##snipped##
The tin-foil hat is pretty apt so again, not name calling, just a statement from observation.
And as for "this list is too long to even put all of them here", feel free to put anything else I've missed. Or are you lying by embellishment again?

And once again (is this the third or fourth time I've stated this) it's not WHO presents the "science" it's WHAT the content is that I take note of and accept or dismiss.
Which part of that isn't sinking in?

I like the way you ignore all the the evidence in my previous posts and then just choose the polio one.
Excellent cherry-picking, an anti-vaxxers favourite past-time.
As for the cases of non-flaccid paralysis increasing in India, I'm well aware of this and it's a concern.
It doesn't mean that polio hasn't been eradicated though does it?
What's causing the increase is currently unknown. One thought is that it's down to the increased surveillance into paralysis in India, another is that it could be associated with individuals receiving multiple doses of the OPV in regions that were hit with dysentery which is essentially misuse of the vaccine and needs to be addressed.

You wrote "that many doctors and scientists are worried could be caused by the very vaccine they are using to eradicate Polio"
Is your definition of "many" just any number more than 1?
The reason I ask is that I can only find 2 doctors stating this, Neetu Vashisht and Jacob Puliyel from Delhi.
They did a data dive into the polio stats and found a correlation but haven't shown a causal link yet.
It will be interesting to understand the issue properly when more data and studies emerge but until then, unlike you, I' won't jump to any conclusions.