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Silent Epidemic; The Untold Story of Vaccines Movie dire

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posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 01:58 PM
link   
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.




posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 04:13 PM
link   

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus
 


But at the same time you wouldn't claim to know more than a fully trained commercial pilot would you?

I can point out a mansard roof when I see one. I know what a flying buttress is and I know the difference between a Victorian house and a cape cod but I'd never presume that I know more than you about architecture because I like reading about it.
edit on PM000000310000000331241312014-03-19T13:41:19-05:00 by AutumnWitch657 because: (no reason given)


your commercial pilot (doctor) is a perfect example and I am glad you used it. He knows how to fly it and about the rules of air traffic but couldn't tell you a single thing about the inner workings of the engines or avionics. And he certainly knows nothing about aeronautical engineering etc.

You assume doctors know everything....this is a huge misconception that is held by westerners. Much like the pilot, doctors actually know very little about the object they are in charge of (the human body). Most doctors take either one or no classes on nutrition but almost all of their "continuing" education is under the direction of big pharma.

As for your example of flying buttresses....all you have to do is "learn" (through reading as I did) ....why they used them and what replaced them and then you know as much as I do. Research Antoni Gaudi and his parabolic arches on this....as it is actually pretty interesting. My point is...why does my college "reading" of buttresses equate to a better understanding of your non-college "reading" about buttresses? In my book it doesn't.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 04:41 PM
link   

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.


infant mortality is one of the best ways to gauge a societies overall health and well being.

you should check into ours....America is 34th in the world.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

this article shows it could be directly linked to the record number (26) of vaccines given to our children before their first birth day.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 08:52 PM
link   

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by nugget1
 


All vaccines are free of charge if you go to your local board of health. But people look at the board of health free vaccines like it's some low level health clinic for the poor. Once I found out they vaccinate for free that's where we took the kids. We had a pediatrician for them but didn't pay them to give vaccines we could get for free.


Sorry, you are wrong on that point.
Where I live, they have always used a sliding income scale.
Since the implementation of ACA, funding was reduce and it was announced on the evening news that there will be a minimum charge of $25.00 per round of vaccinations, per person.

Even if they were 'free', they are still paid for by tax dollars, so the aren't really free. Pharma still makes a profit, and I think that should be illegal.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 04:13 AM
link   

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

GetHyped

InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by GetHyped
 


I didn't say that. But if you need to exaggerate to make your point, carry on.


By being anti-vaccine, you are by definition someone who thinks they know more about vaccines that the entire scientific establishment who have spent decades of their lives meticulously researching and experimenting with them.

You're also dead wrong.
edit on 18-3-2014 by GetHyped because: (no reason given)


your comment should have just been

"By being anti-vaccine, you are by definition...someone who thinks"

you should have just left it there.

because if you are pro vaccine....you aren't thinking....you are just listening to whatever you are told by MSM and big pharma


Or that you have enough of a medical or scientific background to understand that pretty much everything the anti-vaxxers say is regurgitated lies and misinformation?








because you have to have a "background" to understand something?

I have a degree in Architecture....but my love is aeronautics ....I have studied aeronautics for the past 14 years on my own....but according to you....I can't know anything about it because it isn't my "background".

Got it! Thanks for clearing that up.

I also have been studying health and vaccines etc for about the last 20 years because .... again ... I am intrigued by it.....but it isn't my "background".....so....I can't know anything about it.

P.S. There are tons of virologists, practitioners and professors that think vaccines are a bad idea....so maybe their "background" is in basket weaving or something


Have you ever been tested on your aeronautical knowledge by a professor in the field for instance?
Have you ever carried out or published any research into it at all?
I'm guessing not.
So the studying you've done has only been qualified and quantified by you.
As in the case of your "studying health & vaccines", your reference has been what's acceptable to you and you alone.
It doesn't matter how long someone has "studied" something for, if they're not able to demonstrate and prove that they have studied to a certain level and have a minimum comprehension of that subject then the amount of time is moot.

Can you possibly name these virologists, practitioners and professors who think "vaccines are a bad idea please"?
Especially the virologist.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 04:38 AM
link   

UxoriousMagnus

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.


infant mortality is one of the best ways to gauge a societies overall health and well being.

you should check into ours....America is 34th in the world.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

this article shows it could be directly linked to the record number (26) of vaccines given to our children before their first birth day.


And you see, posting links like this only highlights why your study of vaccines and health isn't as complete as you would have yourself believe.
The author of your link, Neil Z. Miller is a director of the ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute, a vehemently anti-vax organisation.

Straight away that should alert you to the fact that any papers by him may be skewed somewhat. He's not a paediatrician, not a virologist, not an immunologist and not an epidemiologist.
He's a medical research journalist.
His partner for this paper, Gary Oldman, is a computer scientist and director of Medical Veritas which essentially is anti everything to do with medical science.
Neither of them have any medical qualifications or experience at all (so I can see how you can relate to this paper).

Aside from that he cites SIDS as being exacerbated by vaccines. It's one of his major arguments in the paper.
However he's completely wrong.
It's actually the other way around.
www.sciencedirect.com...

They also did another study trying to link the rate of hospitalisations in vaccinated infants by using VAERS data.
If you're as familiar with VAERS as you would like to think then you would quickly understand that this is completely useless.

Here's a couple of interesting pages on Miller and Goldman.
scienceblogs.com...
scienceblogs.com...

So this has sort of vindicated my previous post about how the only reference for your medical "studies" has been you.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 10:46 AM
link   
If research is done by anybody affiliated with anti-vax, it's considered biased and invalid.

If research is done by Big Pharma, it's considered the Holy Grail.

Being adamantly convinced either way renders one too close-minded to examine facts, because they might not be what you 'want' to hear.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 10:57 AM
link   

nugget1
If research is done by anybody affiliated with anti-vax, it's considered biased and invalid.

If research is done by Big Pharma, it's considered the Holy Grail.

Being adamantly convinced either way renders one too close-minded to examine facts, because they might not be what you 'want' to hear.


Correct to a point.
If the research done by anti-vax is robust and stands up to scrutiny then it will be accepted.
Conversely, if research conducted by big pharma is weak and falls apart then it will be refuted.

Both scenarios happen more than their opposites.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 11:47 AM
link   
Slightly off topic, but by 2050 the world is on target to double or triple in inhabitants, from 7 billion to 15-25 billion. Do you think the TPB and all it's affiliates know this? I do. Can earth survive this onslaught in regards to resources?

I think there will be many ways in which these numbers will be curbed. Wars, viruses, disasters...The question is do you trust those that are making all your decisions for you or not? Big picture.

On topic, if a person is immunized why do they worry about catching what they are immunized to? I can just not get around this, no matter how people try to justify the thinking. Either the vac works or it doesn't.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 03:22 PM
link   

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.


infant mortality is one of the best ways to gauge a societies overall health and well being.

you should check into ours....America is 34th in the world.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

this article shows it could be directly linked to the record number (26) of vaccines given to our children before their first birth day.


And you see, posting links like this only highlights why your study of vaccines and health isn't as complete as you would have yourself believe.
The author of your link, Neil Z. Miller is a director of the ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute, a vehemently anti-vax organisation.

Straight away that should alert you to the fact that any papers by him may be skewed somewhat. He's not a paediatrician, not a virologist, not an immunologist and not an epidemiologist.
He's a medical research journalist.
His partner for this paper, Gary Oldman, is a computer scientist and director of Medical Veritas which essentially is anti everything to do with medical science.
Neither of them have any medical qualifications or experience at all (so I can see how you can relate to this paper).

Aside from that he cites SIDS as being exacerbated by vaccines. It's one of his major arguments in the paper.
However he's completely wrong.
It's actually the other way around.
www.sciencedirect.com...

They also did another study trying to link the rate of hospitalisations in vaccinated infants by using VAERS data.
If you're as familiar with VAERS as you would like to think then you would quickly understand that this is completely useless.

Here's a couple of interesting pages on Miller and Goldman.
scienceblogs.com...
scienceblogs.com...

So this has sort of vindicated my previous post about how the only reference for your medical "studies" has been you.









I give you a link to the National Library of Medicine and you give me links to a blog and a book store?

One of the head virologists of the CDC even said that the flu vax was useless and he couldn't believe it was still being pushed on the public.

As for all the pro's that are against vaccines.....that will be up to you to search out should you desire. I have post about them at length in other threads on ATS and will not be re-hashing the info.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 03:23 PM
link   

SunnyDee
Slightly off topic, but by 2050 the world is on target to double or triple in inhabitants, from 7 billion to 15-25 billion. Do you think the TPB and all it's affiliates know this? I do. Can earth survive this onslaught in regards to resources?

I think there will be many ways in which these numbers will be curbed. Wars, viruses, disasters...The question is do you trust those that are making all your decisions for you or not? Big picture.

On topic, if a person is immunized why do they worry about catching what they are immunized to? I can just not get around this, no matter how people try to justify the thinking. Either the vac works or it doesn't.


I trust the science rather than the people.

People who are vaccinated don't worry about catching the disease, they worry about passing it on. If you are infected with a disease you are a walking incubation centre.
No vaccine is 100% effective (nor is any other medical or natural treatment for that matter) and there are many people who for various reasons cannot be vaccinated so the more who are means there's less chance of a disease propagating (see smallpox). Unfortunately though in recent years due to anti-science conspiracies we've seen a decline in vaccination rates and an increase in preventable diseases along with an increase in their relative mortality rates.
This was reported yesterday Child Dies from Whooping Cough

So tell me, just who is trying to curb the population again?



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 03:31 PM
link   

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.


infant mortality is one of the best ways to gauge a societies overall health and well being.

you should check into ours....America is 34th in the world.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

this article shows it could be directly linked to the record number (26) of vaccines given to our children before their first birth day.


And you see, posting links like this only highlights why your study of vaccines and health isn't as complete as you would have yourself believe.
The author of your link, Neil Z. Miller is a director of the ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute, a vehemently anti-vax organisation.

Straight away that should alert you to the fact that any papers by him may be skewed somewhat. He's not a paediatrician, not a virologist, not an immunologist and not an epidemiologist.
He's a medical research journalist.
His partner for this paper, Gary Oldman, is a computer scientist and director of Medical Veritas which essentially is anti everything to do with medical science.
Neither of them have any medical qualifications or experience at all (so I can see how you can relate to this paper).

Aside from that he cites SIDS as being exacerbated by vaccines. It's one of his major arguments in the paper.
However he's completely wrong.
It's actually the other way around.
www.sciencedirect.com...

They also did another study trying to link the rate of hospitalisations in vaccinated infants by using VAERS data.
If you're as familiar with VAERS as you would like to think then you would quickly understand that this is completely useless.

Here's a couple of interesting pages on Miller and Goldman.
scienceblogs.com...
scienceblogs.com...

So this has sort of vindicated my previous post about how the only reference for your medical "studies" has been you.









I give you a link to the National Library of Medicine and you give me links to a blog and a book store?

One of the head virologists of the CDC even said that the flu vax was useless and he couldn't believe it was still being pushed on the public.

As for all the pro's that are against vaccines.....that will be up to you to search out should you desire. I have post about them at length in other threads on ATS and will not be re-hashing the info.


It matters what information and facts are contained within the links provided not the where the links are from.
The study you linked to was amateurish rubbish and easily picked apart.
You're showing your lack of understanding in vaccines and health again I'm afraid.

I asked you for names of all of these "experts" and you haven't provided any but asked me to find them out.
The reason I ask is that I've not been able to find any but since you've bandied them about the least you could do would be to name them.
What's the name of the "head virologist of the CDC" you speak of?
If you going to paraphrase him at least tell me who it is so I can check up.

I'll happily back up what I post with sources and names, will you?



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 07:42 PM
link   

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.


infant mortality is one of the best ways to gauge a societies overall health and well being.

you should check into ours....America is 34th in the world.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

this article shows it could be directly linked to the record number (26) of vaccines given to our children before their first birth day.


And you see, posting links like this only highlights why your study of vaccines and health isn't as complete as you would have yourself believe.
The author of your link, Neil Z. Miller is a director of the ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute, a vehemently anti-vax organisation.

Straight away that should alert you to the fact that any papers by him may be skewed somewhat. He's not a paediatrician, not a virologist, not an immunologist and not an epidemiologist.
He's a medical research journalist.
His partner for this paper, Gary Oldman, is a computer scientist and director of Medical Veritas which essentially is anti everything to do with medical science.
Neither of them have any medical qualifications or experience at all (so I can see how you can relate to this paper).

Aside from that he cites SIDS as being exacerbated by vaccines. It's one of his major arguments in the paper.
However he's completely wrong.
It's actually the other way around.
www.sciencedirect.com...

They also did another study trying to link the rate of hospitalisations in vaccinated infants by using VAERS data.
If you're as familiar with VAERS as you would like to think then you would quickly understand that this is completely useless.

Here's a couple of interesting pages on Miller and Goldman.
scienceblogs.com...
scienceblogs.com...

So this has sort of vindicated my previous post about how the only reference for your medical "studies" has been you.









I give you a link to the National Library of Medicine and you give me links to a blog and a book store?

One of the head virologists of the CDC even said that the flu vax was useless and he couldn't believe it was still being pushed on the public.

As for all the pro's that are against vaccines.....that will be up to you to search out should you desire. I have post about them at length in other threads on ATS and will not be re-hashing the info.


It matters what information and facts are contained within the links provided not the where the links are from.
The study you linked to was amateurish rubbish and easily picked apart.
You're showing your lack of understanding in vaccines and health again I'm afraid.

I asked you for names of all of these "experts" and you haven't provided any but asked me to find them out.
The reason I ask is that I've not been able to find any but since you've bandied them about the least you could do would be to name them.
What's the name of the "head virologist of the CDC" you speak of?
If you going to paraphrase him at least tell me who it is so I can check up.

I'll happily back up what I post with sources and names, will you?


nah...I think I am done. It isn't like you will believe anything I bring forward anyway....just as I won't be turned by "specialist" after "specialist" that you bring forth who are pro vaccine. I think they are all controlled, paid off hacks and you think all the anti-vaxxers are uneducated hacks.....so we part ways in disagreement.



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 07:57 PM
link   

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.


infant mortality is one of the best ways to gauge a societies overall health and well being.

you should check into ours....America is 34th in the world.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

this article shows it could be directly linked to the record number (26) of vaccines given to our children before their first birth day.


And you see, posting links like this only highlights why your study of vaccines and health isn't as complete as you would have yourself believe.
The author of your link, Neil Z. Miller is a director of the ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute, a vehemently anti-vax organisation.

Straight away that should alert you to the fact that any papers by him may be skewed somewhat. He's not a paediatrician, not a virologist, not an immunologist and not an epidemiologist.
He's a medical research journalist.
His partner for this paper, Gary Oldman, is a computer scientist and director of Medical Veritas which essentially is anti everything to do with medical science.
Neither of them have any medical qualifications or experience at all (so I can see how you can relate to this paper).

Aside from that he cites SIDS as being exacerbated by vaccines. It's one of his major arguments in the paper.
However he's completely wrong.
It's actually the other way around.
www.sciencedirect.com...

They also did another study trying to link the rate of hospitalisations in vaccinated infants by using VAERS data.
If you're as familiar with VAERS as you would like to think then you would quickly understand that this is completely useless.

Here's a couple of interesting pages on Miller and Goldman.
scienceblogs.com...
scienceblogs.com...

So this has sort of vindicated my previous post about how the only reference for your medical "studies" has been you.









I give you a link to the National Library of Medicine and you give me links to a blog and a book store?

One of the head virologists of the CDC even said that the flu vax was useless and he couldn't believe it was still being pushed on the public.

As for all the pro's that are against vaccines.....that will be up to you to search out should you desire. I have post about them at length in other threads on ATS and will not be re-hashing the info.


It matters what information and facts are contained within the links provided not the where the links are from.
The study you linked to was amateurish rubbish and easily picked apart.
You're showing your lack of understanding in vaccines and health again I'm afraid.

I asked you for names of all of these "experts" and you haven't provided any but asked me to find them out.
The reason I ask is that I've not been able to find any but since you've bandied them about the least you could do would be to name them.
What's the name of the "head virologist of the CDC" you speak of?
If you going to paraphrase him at least tell me who it is so I can check up.

I'll happily back up what I post with sources and names, will you?


though I will give you the CDC and FDA info...


In an interview with Dr. Thomas Jefferson, coordinator for the Cochrane Vaccine Field in Rome, Italy, he stated that in 2009 he conducted a thorough review of 217 published studies on flu vaccines and found only 5% reliable. In other words, 95% of published flu vaccine studies are flawed and their conclusions should be dismissed. This is not a great surprise; even CDC officials were forced to confess that “influenza vaccines are still among the least effective immunizing agents available, and this seems to be particularly true for elderly recipients.”[1] Dr. Anthony Morris, a distinguished virologist and a former Chief Vaccine Office at the FDA, found “there is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza.’ Dr. Morris stated, “The producers of these vaccines know they are worthless, but they go on selling them anyway.”[2]


www.globalresearch.ca...



posted on Mar, 20 2014 @ 08:13 PM
link   

SunnyDee

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by InverseLookingGlass
 


I looked and found different figures so I guess you find what you look for. Still the benefits far far outweigh the few bad results. There are people who are sensitive to vaccines I admit that but we can't let those few cases make the decision for us. There is just no getting around the fact that vaccines save lives.
Do you have a clue what small pox was like?

www.immunize.org...


These are pictures of people immunized:
www.vaccineriskawareness.com...


Yup. The smallpox vaccine can kill some people. I won't even say 'in rare cases' because that isn't exactly true.

But have you seen what happens when you actually contract the disease? The hell that awaits the smallpox sufferer?

Its a numbers game. Or, if you prefer, "risk assessment/mitigation strategy".
1 in 10 dies from the vaccine? Or a 90% mortality rate among people who contract the disease? Not to mention the social stigma that a survivor would have, being pock marked bad enough to make the moon look silky smooth by comparison.



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 04:10 AM
link   

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.


infant mortality is one of the best ways to gauge a societies overall health and well being.

you should check into ours....America is 34th in the world.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

this article shows it could be directly linked to the record number (26) of vaccines given to our children before their first birth day.


And you see, posting links like this only highlights why your study of vaccines and health isn't as complete as you would have yourself believe.
The author of your link, Neil Z. Miller is a director of the ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute, a vehemently anti-vax organisation.

Straight away that should alert you to the fact that any papers by him may be skewed somewhat. He's not a paediatrician, not a virologist, not an immunologist and not an epidemiologist.
He's a medical research journalist.
His partner for this paper, Gary Oldman, is a computer scientist and director of Medical Veritas which essentially is anti everything to do with medical science.
Neither of them have any medical qualifications or experience at all (so I can see how you can relate to this paper).

Aside from that he cites SIDS as being exacerbated by vaccines. It's one of his major arguments in the paper.
However he's completely wrong.
It's actually the other way around.
www.sciencedirect.com...

They also did another study trying to link the rate of hospitalisations in vaccinated infants by using VAERS data.
If you're as familiar with VAERS as you would like to think then you would quickly understand that this is completely useless.

Here's a couple of interesting pages on Miller and Goldman.
scienceblogs.com...
scienceblogs.com...

So this has sort of vindicated my previous post about how the only reference for your medical "studies" has been you.









I give you a link to the National Library of Medicine and you give me links to a blog and a book store?

One of the head virologists of the CDC even said that the flu vax was useless and he couldn't believe it was still being pushed on the public.

As for all the pro's that are against vaccines.....that will be up to you to search out should you desire. I have post about them at length in other threads on ATS and will not be re-hashing the info.


It matters what information and facts are contained within the links provided not the where the links are from.
The study you linked to was amateurish rubbish and easily picked apart.
You're showing your lack of understanding in vaccines and health again I'm afraid.

I asked you for names of all of these "experts" and you haven't provided any but asked me to find them out.
The reason I ask is that I've not been able to find any but since you've bandied them about the least you could do would be to name them.
What's the name of the "head virologist of the CDC" you speak of?
If you going to paraphrase him at least tell me who it is so I can check up.

I'll happily back up what I post with sources and names, will you?


though I will give you the CDC and FDA info...


In an interview with Dr. Thomas Jefferson, coordinator for the Cochrane Vaccine Field in Rome, Italy, he stated that in 2009 he conducted a thorough review of 217 published studies on flu vaccines and found only 5% reliable. In other words, 95% of published flu vaccine studies are flawed and their conclusions should be dismissed. This is not a great surprise; even CDC officials were forced to confess that “influenza vaccines are still among the least effective immunizing agents available, and this seems to be particularly true for elderly recipients.”[1] Dr. Anthony Morris, a distinguished virologist and a former Chief Vaccine Office at the FDA, found “there is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza.’ Dr. Morris stated, “The producers of these vaccines know they are worthless, but they go on selling them anyway.”[2]


www.globalresearch.ca...


Dr Anthony Morris wasn't a distinguished virologist else he would have published research into viruses. A simple PubMed search brings up only two papers from the 1950's and both were on bacteria.
He seems to have been more of a bureaucrat within the FDA and was summarily dismissed in the early '70's following a political issue there (he was sacked) So he obviously has no axe to grind eh?
Read page 5 www.fda.gov...

As for the Jefferson quote I can't find a citation for that anywhere. Everywhere I look I find exactly the same words as you have copied and pasted but nothing to back it up. Just regurgitation.
But let's run with what's allegedly been said; flu vaccines are the least effective vaccines but if you actually care to look at the 5% of the studies that are valid (there are actually many more but as I said, I'll run with you on this) they give a 65% effectiveness.
That means 65% of people who have the shot will not get the flu.
That's not what they're aiming for but it's still very far from worthless isn't it?



So it's gone from "There are tons of virologists, practitioners and professors that think vaccines are a bad idea" to one verified one who thinks that one vaccine isn't as good as he'd like it to be.

You really don't seem to know as much as you think you do so I'm going to agree with the earlier poster who cited the Dunning-Kruger effect, cognitive bias if you will.



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 11:03 AM
link   

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.


infant mortality is one of the best ways to gauge a societies overall health and well being.

you should check into ours....America is 34th in the world.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

this article shows it could be directly linked to the record number (26) of vaccines given to our children before their first birth day.


And you see, posting links like this only highlights why your study of vaccines and health isn't as complete as you would have yourself believe.
The author of your link, Neil Z. Miller is a director of the ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute, a vehemently anti-vax organisation.

Straight away that should alert you to the fact that any papers by him may be skewed somewhat. He's not a paediatrician, not a virologist, not an immunologist and not an epidemiologist.
He's a medical research journalist.
His partner for this paper, Gary Oldman, is a computer scientist and director of Medical Veritas which essentially is anti everything to do with medical science.
Neither of them have any medical qualifications or experience at all (so I can see how you can relate to this paper).

Aside from that he cites SIDS as being exacerbated by vaccines. It's one of his major arguments in the paper.
However he's completely wrong.
It's actually the other way around.
www.sciencedirect.com...

They also did another study trying to link the rate of hospitalisations in vaccinated infants by using VAERS data.
If you're as familiar with VAERS as you would like to think then you would quickly understand that this is completely useless.

Here's a couple of interesting pages on Miller and Goldman.
scienceblogs.com...
scienceblogs.com...

So this has sort of vindicated my previous post about how the only reference for your medical "studies" has been you.









I give you a link to the National Library of Medicine and you give me links to a blog and a book store?

One of the head virologists of the CDC even said that the flu vax was useless and he couldn't believe it was still being pushed on the public.

As for all the pro's that are against vaccines.....that will be up to you to search out should you desire. I have post about them at length in other threads on ATS and will not be re-hashing the info.


It matters what information and facts are contained within the links provided not the where the links are from.
The study you linked to was amateurish rubbish and easily picked apart.
You're showing your lack of understanding in vaccines and health again I'm afraid.

I asked you for names of all of these "experts" and you haven't provided any but asked me to find them out.
The reason I ask is that I've not been able to find any but since you've bandied them about the least you could do would be to name them.
What's the name of the "head virologist of the CDC" you speak of?
If you going to paraphrase him at least tell me who it is so I can check up.

I'll happily back up what I post with sources and names, will you?


though I will give you the CDC and FDA info...


In an interview with Dr. Thomas Jefferson, coordinator for the Cochrane Vaccine Field in Rome, Italy, he stated that in 2009 he conducted a thorough review of 217 published studies on flu vaccines and found only 5% reliable. In other words, 95% of published flu vaccine studies are flawed and their conclusions should be dismissed. This is not a great surprise; even CDC officials were forced to confess that “influenza vaccines are still among the least effective immunizing agents available, and this seems to be particularly true for elderly recipients.”[1] Dr. Anthony Morris, a distinguished virologist and a former Chief Vaccine Office at the FDA, found “there is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza.’ Dr. Morris stated, “The producers of these vaccines know they are worthless, but they go on selling them anyway.”[2]


www.globalresearch.ca...


Dr Anthony Morris wasn't a distinguished virologist else he would have published research into viruses. A simple PubMed search brings up only two papers from the 1950's and both were on bacteria.
He seems to have been more of a bureaucrat within the FDA and was summarily dismissed in the early '70's following a political issue there (he was sacked) So he obviously has no axe to grind eh?
Read page 5 www.fda.gov...

As for the Jefferson quote I can't find a citation for that anywhere. Everywhere I look I find exactly the same words as you have copied and pasted but nothing to back it up. Just regurgitation.
But let's run with what's allegedly been said; flu vaccines are the least effective vaccines but if you actually care to look at the 5% of the studies that are valid (there are actually many more but as I said, I'll run with you on this) they give a 65% effectiveness.
That means 65% of people who have the shot will not get the flu.
That's not what they're aiming for but it's still very far from worthless isn't it?



So it's gone from "There are tons of virologists, practitioners and professors that think vaccines are a bad idea" to one verified one who thinks that one vaccine isn't as good as he'd like it to be.

You really don't seem to know as much as you think you do so I'm going to agree with the earlier poster who cited the Dunning-Kruger effect, cognitive bias if you will.







It must be a UK thing....
you make personal attacks in almost every response instead of just staying on target with arguing your position.

Almost every response states how little someone knows or that you hope they are childless or some other personal attack.

other members, including myself, keep trying to argue our point and give references for that point...

you, on the other hand, make personal attacks.....it is a good show of the separation of the two sides of this issue. It shows the "types" of people that are on either side. Quite frankly....I will side with good people even if they are wrong (which they are not) instead of siding with people like you even if you were right (which you are not).



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 03:26 PM
link   

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.


infant mortality is one of the best ways to gauge a societies overall health and well being.

you should check into ours....America is 34th in the world.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

this article shows it could be directly linked to the record number (26) of vaccines given to our children before their first birth day.


And you see, posting links like this only highlights why your study of vaccines and health isn't as complete as you would have yourself believe.
The author of your link, Neil Z. Miller is a director of the ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute, a vehemently anti-vax organisation.

Straight away that should alert you to the fact that any papers by him may be skewed somewhat. He's not a paediatrician, not a virologist, not an immunologist and not an epidemiologist.
He's a medical research journalist.
His partner for this paper, Gary Oldman, is a computer scientist and director of Medical Veritas which essentially is anti everything to do with medical science.
Neither of them have any medical qualifications or experience at all (so I can see how you can relate to this paper).

Aside from that he cites SIDS as being exacerbated by vaccines. It's one of his major arguments in the paper.
However he's completely wrong.
It's actually the other way around.
www.sciencedirect.com...

They also did another study trying to link the rate of hospitalisations in vaccinated infants by using VAERS data.
If you're as familiar with VAERS as you would like to think then you would quickly understand that this is completely useless.

Here's a couple of interesting pages on Miller and Goldman.
scienceblogs.com...
scienceblogs.com...

So this has sort of vindicated my previous post about how the only reference for your medical "studies" has been you.




I give you a link to the National Library of Medicine and you give me links to a blog and a book store?

One of the head virologists of the CDC even said that the flu vax was useless and he couldn't believe it was still being pushed on the public.

As for all the pro's that are against vaccines.....that will be up to you to search out should you desire. I have post about them at length in other threads on ATS and will not be re-hashing the info.


It matters what information and facts are contained within the links provided not the where the links are from.
The study you linked to was amateurish rubbish and easily picked apart.
You're showing your lack of understanding in vaccines and health again I'm afraid.

I asked you for names of all of these "experts" and you haven't provided any but asked me to find them out.
The reason I ask is that I've not been able to find any but since you've bandied them about the least you could do would be to name them.
What's the name of the "head virologist of the CDC" you speak of?
If you going to paraphrase him at least tell me who it is so I can check up.

I'll happily back up what I post with sources and names, will you?


though I will give you the CDC and FDA info...


In an interview with Dr. Thomas Jefferson, coordinator for the Cochrane Vaccine Field in Rome, Italy, he stated that in 2009 he conducted a thorough review of 217 published studies on flu vaccines and found only 5% reliable. In other words, 95% of published flu vaccine studies are flawed and their conclusions should be dismissed. This is not a great surprise; even CDC officials were forced to confess that “influenza vaccines are still among the least effective immunizing agents available, and this seems to be particularly true for elderly recipients.”[1] Dr. Anthony Morris, a distinguished virologist and a former Chief Vaccine Office at the FDA, found “there is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza.’ Dr. Morris stated, “The producers of these vaccines know they are worthless, but they go on selling them anyway.”[2]


www.globalresearch.ca...


Dr Anthony Morris wasn't a distinguished virologist else he would have published research into viruses. A simple PubMed search brings up only two papers from the 1950's and both were on bacteria.
He seems to have been more of a bureaucrat within the FDA and was summarily dismissed in the early '70's following a political issue there (he was sacked) So he obviously has no axe to grind eh?
Read page 5 www.fda.gov...

As for the Jefferson quote I can't find a citation for that anywhere. Everywhere I look I find exactly the same words as you have copied and pasted but nothing to back it up. Just regurgitation.
But let's run with what's allegedly been said; flu vaccines are the least effective vaccines but if you actually care to look at the 5% of the studies that are valid (there are actually many more but as I said, I'll run with you on this) they give a 65% effectiveness.
That means 65% of people who have the shot will not get the flu.
That's not what they're aiming for but it's still very far from worthless isn't it?



So it's gone from "There are tons of virologists, practitioners and professors that think vaccines are a bad idea" to one verified one who thinks that one vaccine isn't as good as he'd like it to be.

You really don't seem to know as much as you think you do so I'm going to agree with the earlier poster who cited the Dunning-Kruger effect, cognitive bias if you will.







It must be a UK thing....
you make personal attacks in almost every response instead of just staying on target with arguing your position.

Almost every response states how little someone knows or that you hope they are childless or some other personal attack.

other members, including myself, keep trying to argue our point and give references for that point...

you, on the other hand, make personal attacks.....it is a good show of the separation of the two sides of this issue. It shows the "types" of people that are on either side. Quite frankly....I will side with good people even if they are wrong (which they are not) instead of siding with people like you even if you were right (which you are not).


Wrong.
You been called out on your self proclaimed knowledge of the subject and been shown to be extremely lacking in every single aspect.
You make bold statements but fail miserably to back them up with any credible evidence.
Not one statement have you managed to substantiate.
Not one.

Then to cap it all you blatantly lie about my wishing people were childless.

Your last paragraph is quite bizarre.



posted on Mar, 21 2014 @ 03:33 PM
link   

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.


infant mortality is one of the best ways to gauge a societies overall health and well being.

you should check into ours....America is 34th in the world.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

this article shows it could be directly linked to the record number (26) of vaccines given to our children before their first birth day.


And you see, posting links like this only highlights why your study of vaccines and health isn't as complete as you would have yourself believe.
The author of your link, Neil Z. Miller is a director of the ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute, a vehemently anti-vax organisation.

Straight away that should alert you to the fact that any papers by him may be skewed somewhat. He's not a paediatrician, not a virologist, not an immunologist and not an epidemiologist.
He's a medical research journalist.
His partner for this paper, Gary Oldman, is a computer scientist and director of Medical Veritas which essentially is anti everything to do with medical science.
Neither of them have any medical qualifications or experience at all (so I can see how you can relate to this paper).

Aside from that he cites SIDS as being exacerbated by vaccines. It's one of his major arguments in the paper.
However he's completely wrong.
It's actually the other way around.
www.sciencedirect.com...

They also did another study trying to link the rate of hospitalisations in vaccinated infants by using VAERS data.
If you're as familiar with VAERS as you would like to think then you would quickly understand that this is completely useless.

Here's a couple of interesting pages on Miller and Goldman.
scienceblogs.com...
scienceblogs.com...

So this has sort of vindicated my previous post about how the only reference for your medical "studies" has been you.









I give you a link to the National Library of Medicine and you give me links to a blog and a book store?

One of the head virologists of the CDC even said that the flu vax was useless and he couldn't believe it was still being pushed on the public.

As for all the pro's that are against vaccines.....that will be up to you to search out should you desire. I have post about them at length in other threads on ATS and will not be re-hashing the info.


It matters what information and facts are contained within the links provided not the where the links are from.
The study you linked to was amateurish rubbish and easily picked apart.
You're showing your lack of understanding in vaccines and health again I'm afraid.

I asked you for names of all of these "experts" and you haven't provided any but asked me to find them out.
The reason I ask is that I've not been able to find any but since you've bandied them about the least you could do would be to name them.
What's the name of the "head virologist of the CDC" you speak of?
If you going to paraphrase him at least tell me who it is so I can check up.

I'll happily back up what I post with sources and names, will you?


nah...I think I am done. It isn't like you will believe anything I bring forward anyway....just as I won't be turned by "specialist" after "specialist" that you bring forth who are pro vaccine. I think they are all controlled, paid off hacks and you think all the anti-vaxxers are uneducated hacks.....so we part ways in disagreement.


Apologies, I missed this post.

Once again you've spectacularly missed the point of what I said (and dodged what I've asked, what a surprise).

I don't care what or who presents evidence, I care about the evidence.
If it's robust then I will accept it.
If it's weak I'll dismiss it.
Who presents it is of no importance.

To look at it your way is anti-science not just anti-vax (and paranoid).

As the saying goes, science is true whether you believe it or not.
Deal with it.



posted on Mar, 22 2014 @ 11:37 PM
link   

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

Pardon?

UxoriousMagnus

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by SunnyDee
 


Some people have a natural immunity to the flu viruses. I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu either. No one in my family has ever had the flu and my brother has never even had a cold. My kids were always the ones with 100% attendance . I don't know what to attribute this immunity to but it's real. My kids visits to the doctor for illness can be counted on one hand and that's for three kids spread out over 21 years. My oldest is 39 my baby just turned 18 in October.
One case of ear infection one for pink eye and two cases of tonsilitis. The oldest did have his tonsils removed. My middle one never went to the doctor for an illness though he did see him for stitches a few times.


infant mortality is one of the best ways to gauge a societies overall health and well being.

you should check into ours....America is 34th in the world.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

this article shows it could be directly linked to the record number (26) of vaccines given to our children before their first birth day.


And you see, posting links like this only highlights why your study of vaccines and health isn't as complete as you would have yourself believe.
The author of your link, Neil Z. Miller is a director of the ThinkTwice Global Vaccine Institute, a vehemently anti-vax organisation.

Straight away that should alert you to the fact that any papers by him may be skewed somewhat. He's not a paediatrician, not a virologist, not an immunologist and not an epidemiologist.
He's a medical research journalist.
His partner for this paper, Gary Oldman, is a computer scientist and director of Medical Veritas which essentially is anti everything to do with medical science.
Neither of them have any medical qualifications or experience at all (so I can see how you can relate to this paper).

Aside from that he cites SIDS as being exacerbated by vaccines. It's one of his major arguments in the paper.
However he's completely wrong.
It's actually the other way around.
www.sciencedirect.com...

They also did another study trying to link the rate of hospitalisations in vaccinated infants by using VAERS data.
If you're as familiar with VAERS as you would like to think then you would quickly understand that this is completely useless.

Here's a couple of interesting pages on Miller and Goldman.
scienceblogs.com...
scienceblogs.com...

So this has sort of vindicated my previous post about how the only reference for your medical "studies" has been you.









I give you a link to the National Library of Medicine and you give me links to a blog and a book store?

One of the head virologists of the CDC even said that the flu vax was useless and he couldn't believe it was still being pushed on the public.

As for all the pro's that are against vaccines.....that will be up to you to search out should you desire. I have post about them at length in other threads on ATS and will not be re-hashing the info.


It matters what information and facts are contained within the links provided not the where the links are from.
The study you linked to was amateurish rubbish and easily picked apart.
You're showing your lack of understanding in vaccines and health again I'm afraid.

I asked you for names of all of these "experts" and you haven't provided any but asked me to find them out.
The reason I ask is that I've not been able to find any but since you've bandied them about the least you could do would be to name them.
What's the name of the "head virologist of the CDC" you speak of?
If you going to paraphrase him at least tell me who it is so I can check up.

I'll happily back up what I post with sources and names, will you?


nah...I think I am done. It isn't like you will believe anything I bring forward anyway....just as I won't be turned by "specialist" after "specialist" that you bring forth who are pro vaccine. I think they are all controlled, paid off hacks and you think all the anti-vaxxers are uneducated hacks.....so we part ways in disagreement.


Apologies, I missed this post.

Once again you've spectacularly missed the point of what I said (and dodged what I've asked, what a surprise).

I don't care what or who presents evidence, I care about the evidence.
If it's robust then I will accept it.
If it's weak I'll dismiss it.
Who presents it is of no importance.

To look at it your way is anti-science not just anti-vax (and paranoid).

As the saying goes, science is true whether you believe it or not.
Deal with it.


so this is a reply to both of your posts.
First let me say sorry for saying that you said that "childless" thing....my mistake ....that was your pro-vaccine comrade "Witch something".

Ok….So….let’s take this in a little different direction.

Let’s say Ford motor company has a vehicle that is catching on fire in peoples garages (this actually happened by the way). Link: www.cbsnews.com...

Who….is going to investigate this? Ford? They already know there is a problem. They have already done studies on if it is more cost effective to do a recall or to let people die in their cars or the houses that burn down due to the fires. Hello….has anyone seen Fight Club?!

Ford has already put together a “scientific” study on how their vehicles are fine and it is only a small number that catch fire.

Is GMC or Chevy or Dodge putting a study together to prove that Fords catch on fire….how can they even do this and would they even want to knowing some day they may need to recall one of their own vehicles?

So…I ask again…who is going to research this and get to the bottom of the issue….if there even is one?

These people are called investigative journalists. This is what they do….dig into things that no one else seems willing to.

So…how does an investigative journalist even get started? If they go directly to Ford…they know they will get nowhere. They know they can’t even go to their competition as they are protecting the entire industry. So how does an investigative journalist even get started?

This strangely does not matter. What does matter is what the investigative journalist comes up with. After putting together months of interviews and research…they find that indeed Ford trucks are catching fire in people’s garages even when they aren’t being driven.

Ford is forced to do a recall and correct the problem which costs more than they wanted to spend but it is all because of investigative journalists and the tireless and unbiased work they did. It saved countless lives that Ford did not care about.

So I ask you….who is investigating and doing scientific studies on vaccines when the big pharma companies are beholden only to themselves? They do their own research on their own products.

They have been proven time and again to be pushing things that are dangerous or ineffective on the general public for some 150 years. continued...


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