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1 Million Christians sign EU religion plea

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posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 01:32 AM
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He may have started judaism, but he would have been influenced by other current religions of the time.




posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by tsuribito
I think the current formulation is a good Compromise

Drawing inspiration from the cultural, religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, the values of which, still present in its heritage, have embedded within the life of society the central role of the
human person and his or her inviolable and inalienable rights, and respect for law

[edit on 25/11/04 by tsuribito]


I would agree except that Christianity is not mentioned at all, I think it should be as well as the others....humanism is a religion in itself, if it can be mentioned why not Christ?



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 01:41 AM
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IIRC Humanism is not a Religion and has in fact distanced itself from religion because it does not accept supernatural beings and events.
Some Religions have adapted forms of humanism but that still does not count as a religion.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 01:53 AM
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And again, Judism was not founded on any other religion, Abram became abraham and the jewish religion was started, down through Issac etc etc.

There are no relationships with India, as India has no montheistic God that I know of???


I never insinuated as such; but, you may want to venture into the pagan ingluened of Judeo-Christianity. The Enuma Elish is startingly perfunctory with the Judiac creation myth, as is many other ancient epics -- Giglamesh, to name another. Baal, Marduk, and company, are all characters in the Enuma Elish; the Bible later demonizes Baal though..

You may also want to check up on the history of Mythriasm and the New Testament, esp Constantine.


Deep

[edit on 25-11-2004 by ZeroDeep]



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep
I never insinuated as such; but, you may want to venture into the pagan ingluened of Judeo-Christianity. The Enuma Elish is startingly perfunctory with the Judiac creation myth, as is many other ancient epics -- Giglamesh, to name another. Baal, Marduk, and company, are all characters in the Enuma Elish; the Bible later demonizes Baal though..Deep


Oh yeah the Sitchen stuff, I have read them all! Good reading but the one that got me was the fight between Murduk and Baal and some other god named Yahweh came in and kicked Baal's arse. I thought that one strange. Have you read his last book, seem to have had a change of heart..

Noah and Nimrod , Giglamesh used a submarine in a sense but 2 of every animal etc , very simlilar indeed but pre-deluvian times all the tales originated in one original place...



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 02:30 AM
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We had a long LONG discussion in Europe about God in Constitution before it was officialy signed. There were a lot of pros and cons, debates (real debates with no predetermined questions).
In the end, most parties agreed that it is in our best interest to keep God out of politics, simply because of religious diversity of Europe.

Christian heritage of Europe is undeniable, and nobody tried to take that away. The church is not banned, religion is not banned, the Pope still resides in the middle of Europe.
Europe was a very very very bloody continent, responsible for a LOT of misery on this planet. Church played a huge role in it, and we are aware of it. The institution of Church and its influence in politics had to be limited to allow the peaceful versions of religion to exist in a first place.
It is the true separation of Church and state.
We still learn in school about christian roots of Europe, about reforms of religion and about the dark sides too. That is exactly where those things belong, is HISTORY BOOKS and classes.

The other thing is that there are large groups of population who are not Christians. We got Muslims, pagans, gypsies, atheists, Jews, and we think that putting christian God in constitution is not in the best interest of UNITED Europe.

EU Constitution is a legal document, written in 21st century. God in Constitution has no legal, practical purpose. It has no direct influence on EU business. Its purpose would only be to remind us of christian heritage in Europe. Well, for that we have history books, sightseeing tours across EU, documentaries on TV.

Majority of Europe has decided: no God in Constitution.

On a side note: EU Constitution is nothing like american constitution, it cannot be compared, its purpose is completely different.
In USA the Constitution defined the laws, in EU laws were already in place in all countries and they defined the Constitution, which is only a summary of basic principles of modern european society.
It does not have the same purpose as american constitution.
I think a lot of americans are not aware of that, so I thought I should point it out.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 03:02 AM
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I thought Christianity was pretty much dead in Europe. Now the History part is undeniable, but not many hold to their forefathers beliefs.


I wouldn't go so far as to say it's dead, plenty of people still practice their faith, attend church etc. It's more a question that they keep their personal beliefs and political ones seperate these days, again regarding European history, with good reason.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
I'm curious ed, what is it about Christianity that it is so pleasing for you to see Europe declare its basis upon it?



Don't you know?!?!

Chrisianity RULES!!! YEAH!!! Wooooo! (waves flag, crucifix and shoots a few rounds into the air)

Cristiannity kicks other religions @$$es!! Yeeehaw!

-Sigh-


Did you spot my subtle parody?


Religion is like dirty sex - do it in the privacy of you own home and don't bother normal folks with your superstitions.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 04:11 AM
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Not sure if anyone else feels this way or not, but I like the idea of having Christian roots in thier constitution just to upset the Muslims that want to convert them. As a catalyst it's a good idea. I imagine that is why they are pushing it anyway. It's like stealing the rival teams mascot and deflamating it and leaving it on the school lawn. It's posturing at it's best and I love it!..Ok the analogy sucks but you get the idea of what am trying to say.





Looking for a whitty, yet insightful signature.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 05:31 AM
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Thankfully nothing will come of this, religion has no place in politics. People moan about corrupt organisations, organised religion is about as corrupt as it gets. Purely a self serving, devisive way of trying to hold power over others.

This is the last thing politics needs.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 05:46 AM
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Christianity "dead" in Europe?



No.

We just have learned to (mostly with only a few exceptions) steer well clear of the blatent mixing of politics and religion for political gain.....

....and we're quite happy to keep it like that, no matter what 1 million signatories might say
(and what are the bets many of them signed up at a Church having been misled and told by a Priest/Vicar/Minister/Pastor something terrible was going to happen - which it isn't - if they didn't sign up to get 'Christianity' it's 'special place' and 'get this changed'!)

As has been said previously (all) religious freedoms are 2nd to none in Europe and this actually ensures it stays that way.



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:39 AM
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But it remains a denial of ones roots, it was not added so as to not offend anyone in particular. The Muslims sure as hell dont want it in there now do they? When you deny your past you soon forget it....



posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
But it remains a denial of ones roots,


- How? How on earth is this actually a 'denial' of anything?



it was not added so as to not offend anyone in particular.


- It was done to protect us - all - from any possible bias or prejudice from that quarter.....and what?


The Muslims sure as hell dont want it in there now do they?


- Ed how and why on earth do you insinuate this has anything to do with Muslims?
Keeping all religion out of EU law and constitutional matters is not doing any religion a favour.


When you deny your past you soon forget it....


- Who is denying anything?

A religious basis for our EU law is utterly inappropriate.
There are so many versions of Christianity alone that it would be impossible to account for all 'brands'.
By far the best idea is to keep them all out.
If you want religion go to a church and see a Priest.
In Europe we have come to agree that the best idea is to keep it and politics as separate as possible.

Been there done that, bad idea, not doing it again.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 04:40 PM
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I really do fail to see how its going away from our roots, Even so, should we be stuck in our past forever?
Prehaps we should include something about the old roman gods, maybe something about the old greek gods added in for good measure.

The simple fact is that most European's agree that keeping religion out of government is a good idea, how would you like it if something you didn't agree with was shoved down your throats.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 04:47 PM
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1 million people in europe is but a small minority. Most people, certainly those I speak to, are either agnostic or atheist. Religion plays little, if any, part in modern European life.

Attendance at formal religious worship is in steady and inexorable decline.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 05:35 PM
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I would say that christianity is pretty much dead in Europe, thank god.

One million is not that much, I guess US could get 1 millions signs in Dallas alone.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 06:58 PM
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BUT how can christianity be dead in europe i dont see how?
many americans say its dead over here but where exsactly do i see proof of this? there is only one source!



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 10:44 PM
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*double post*

[edit on 26-11-2004 by cargo]



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 10:50 PM
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Christianity was established 2000 odd years ago. That's a piss in the ocean in the grand scheme of things.

Common sense tells us (and presumably Europe) that scientific fact, combined with tolerance towards people's wishes to believe in folktales if they choose, makes it unecessary to factor Christianity specifically into a constitution.



posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by Englishman_in_Spain
1 million people in europe is but a small minority. Most people, certainly those I speak to, are either agnostic or atheist. Religion plays little, if any, part in modern European life.Attendance at formal religious worship is in steady and inexorable decline.


And one reaps what they sow........

I am sad to hear this but alas I know it to be true and the consequences thereof will be forthcoming. Either Europe will be Muslim or atheist but Christ has been booted from the continent except for some of the eastern European nations. They had persecution for years and now they see and are allowed to hold onto their faith.



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