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The Illusion that People's vote picks the Presisdent.

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posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:30 AM
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Can somebody explain to me in more detail the understanding behind this conspiracy that the avg citizen's votes in the USA doesnt actually make somebody president?

I heard its just an illusion of democracy. Explain to me how this work please.




posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:41 AM
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It's like this.
The election of the President is not directly based on popular vote, it's based on what is called the Electoral College which is a manifestation of the concept of representation rather than direct democracy. Since the government of the US is a representational system rather than a direct democracy, it fits right in. Each state has a number of electors. That number is based on the population of the state. This means that states with a greater population have a greater number of electoral votes...ah, the hell with it. If that wasn't a rhetorical question, here you go. It's really simple...or not:
www.archives.gov...



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:11 AM
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In the United States, the public is presented with two candidates that have been endorsed by the major global financial institutions and media conglomerates. What happens after that--the whole election part--is of little consequence. Because there is no substantive difference between the two candidates, the choice has already been made for everyone. That's why the Average Joe's vote doesn't really matter. Most people in this country are completely oblivious to it all.

Hope that helps...


Oh wait, you're talking about the Electoral College. Silly me.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:21 AM
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NthOther
In the United States, the public is presented with two candidates that have been endorsed by the major global financial institutions and media conglomerates. What happens after that--the whole election part--is of little consequence. Because there is no substantive difference between the two candidates, the choice has already been made for everyone. That's why the Average Joe's vote doesn't really matter. Most people in this country are completely oblivious to it all.

Hope that helps...


Oh wait, you're talking about the Electoral College. Silly me.


No this is what I was talking about. I heard this before, that they are selected before we choose them.

I didnt understand that part. How are they selected before we know them?



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by knightsofhonor
 




How are they selected before we know them?

Las Vegas.
It's all done in Las Vegas. So I hear.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by knightsofhonor
 


As far as I'm concerned, the "illusion" involves who you get to vote for. The organizations and mega-donors which supply the money for the candidates to get their messages out determine who gets to actually run and have a chance. There are maybe just a few hundred people who decide who runs. There's another layer under that too involving who gets to register as a candidate. If one can't register as a candidate in all but the tiniest states, there is no chance to become president regardless of eventual funding.

Some people might say the electoral college, which are our (mostly) bound representatives, is part of the illusion -- but that is misdirection and statistical ignorance for the most part. The electoral college was actually superior to popular voting in performance as originally set up. It can occasionally override the popular vote, but that was the idea and it is why it performs better -- slight majorities should not determine a win as a few more voters here or there (say, due to weather) could easily change the outcome drastically. A minimum size win is required by the electoral college scheme. Unfortunately, in recent years, the system has been subverted by the "winner gets all" binding of the electoral college members.

The winner gets all is a very poor idea which favors, again, slight majorities in the more populous states. When a victory in more populous states is marginal, the tiny difference is greatly magnified and makes the less populous states irrelevant even if their majorities are large in the opposite direction. In particular, get-out-the-vote campaigns in heavily populated areas tend to bias the results to city-center voters vs suburbs and rural. Busing large numbers of voters (registered or not) to polling places is cheap in city-centers in contrast to rural and suburbs where it is much more expensive and logistically difficult. So, these days, more populous states with large left-leaning cities tend to have a huge advantage out of proportion to their actual population.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:29 AM
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It is because the electronic voting machines can be hacked. Just google "hacking voting machines" and learn. Here are a couple of reports.

www.salon.com...

www.youtube.com...



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:37 AM
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knightsofhonor
How are they selected before we know them?


There are people who help market potential candidates to the mega-donors. These people are often not even politicians in the usual sense but are highly influential in specific areas of the country. Elections and political races don't work the way people think they do (from TV). If you spend some time in party-politics, especially a year or so before an election, you will figure out pretty quickly who has influence in your area.

Usually, the people who get introduced to, and actively promoted to, the ones with the deeper pockets are very active in their precincts or areas. One of the influential types notices, likes what they see (hear) and starts their development. Without the money and without the backing of the influential types, it's extremely tough going. Populist candidates are naturally rare but can be "created" in the right circumstances.
edit on 401am14America/Chicago19038kAmerica/Chicago by BayesLike because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:42 AM
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knightsofhonor

NthOther
In the United States, the public is presented with two candidates that have been endorsed by the major global financial institutions and media conglomerates. What happens after that--the whole election part--is of little consequence. Because there is no substantive difference between the two candidates, the choice has already been made for everyone. That's why the Average Joe's vote doesn't really matter. Most people in this country are completely oblivious to it all.

Hope that helps...


Oh wait, you're talking about the Electoral College. Silly me.


No this is what I was talking about. I heard this before, that they are selected before we choose them.

I didnt understand that part. How are they selected before we know them?


A loaded question, but I will take a stab at it.

-They are selected before you know them in principle because only 2 parties ever end up putting presidents in the whitehouse. The democrats and the republicans. Despite there being other parties out there (libertarian, green party, etc), only two of them are deemed to be "relevant" and thus your ability to select a president is limited right off the start of the race.

-The primaries then occur, in which both the democrats and the republicans select a bunch of politicians from within their own ranks to be elected to lead their respective parties in the presidential election. This is also a loaded (and mostly rigged) process as independents who do not belong to either the republican party or the democratic party are not allowed to vote in the primaries. Only members of the party can vote for a particular person in their parties primary. This is further complicated by all kinds of rules on delegates which muddy the waters even further, and essentially if the party (be it democrat or republican) decides it doesn't want someone to win the primary, it doesn't have to listen to it's party members. This was pretty much done by the Republicans to Ron Paul in the last republican primary election, and rules were changed to keep Paul from being endorsed by delegates and thus he was pretty much barred by his own party from winning the primary, despite a fairly large portion of the popular vote in various states.

-The primaries themselves require huge amounts of money, and this further reduces the choices voters have, as the chances you will be able to vote for some blue collar guy from new jersey are practically nil. It takes MILLIONS of dollars to campaign and put up adds.

-The mainstream media further complicates this by endorsing certain candidates while shunning others and limiting the airtime they receive on national televised debates or on news broadcasts. This increases the chances that a hand picked individual will win the primary rather than a darkhorse candidate.

-Once the primaries are over and each party has selected an individual to represent it during the presidential elections, The voter fraud starts, and the dead rise from their graves to cast votes for certain candidates on electronic voting machines that are notoriously unreliable and easy to hack. Dirty tricks also ensue and people are told to go to certain polling stations that don't exist so they miss their chance to cast their ballot. The entire sham continues and when someone is selected by the popular vote, it doesn't matter anyways since the electoral college can decide the outcome of a tight election as we saw happen when George Bush Jr lost the popular vote during his first presidential run, but became president anyways.


edit on 18-3-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by knightsofhonor
 


there was a video posted in a thread on this site recently which explained very well how the electoral college process means only some 10% of americans actualy pick the president, im trying to find it,

not the one im after but related -> www.presstv.ir...
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 04:06 AM
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Phage
reply to post by knightsofhonor
 




How are they selected before we know them?

Las Vegas.
It's all done in Las Vegas. So I hear.

thank you Phage for clearing this up...
I always thought that Vegas was the heart of America....run by the mob, with bright flashing lights and mirrors....
and beautiful dancing girls with big boobies....



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 12:17 PM
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Change is more than half way to becoming reality.

The National Popular Vote bill would guarantee the presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in the country, by replacing state winner-take-all laws.

Every vote, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in presidential elections. No more distorting and divisive red and blue state maps pre-determining the outcome. There would no longer be a handful of 'battleground' states where voters and policies are more important than those of the voters in 80% of the states that now are just 'spectators' and ignored after the conventions.

The bill would take effect when enacted by states with a majority of Electoral College votes—that is, enough to elect a President (270 of 538). The candidate receiving the most popular votes from all 50 states (and DC) would get all the 270+ electoral votes of the enacting states.

The presidential election system, using the 48 state winner-take-all method or district winner method of awarding electoral votes, that we have today was not designed, anticipated, or favored by the Founders. It is the product of decades of change precipitated by the emergence of political parties and enactment by 48 states of winner-take-all laws, not mentioned, much less endorsed, in the Constitution.

The bill uses the power given to each state by the Founders in the Constitution to change how they award their electoral votes for President. States can, and frequently have, changed their method of awarding electoral votes over the years. Historically, major changes in the method of electing the President, including ending the requirement that only men who owned substantial property could vote and 48 current state-by-state winner-take-all laws, have come about by state legislative action.

In Gallup polls since 1944, only about 20% of the public has supported the current system of awarding all of a state's electoral votes to the presidential candidate who receives the most votes in each separate state (with about 70% opposed and about 10% undecided).
Support for a national popular vote is strong among Republicans, Democrats, and Independent voters, as well as every demographic group in virtually every state surveyed in recent polls
in recent or past closely divided Battleground states: CO – 68%, FL – 78%, IA --75%, MI – 73%, MO – 70%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM– 76%, NC – 74%, OH – 70%, PA – 78%, VA – 74%, and WI – 71%;
in Small states (3 to 5 electoral votes): AK – 70%, DC – 76%, DE – 75%, ID – 77%, ME – 77%, MT – 72%, NE 74%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM – 76%, OK – 81%, RI – 74%, SD – 71%, UT – 70%, VT – 75%, WV – 81%, and WY – 69%;
in Southern and Border states: AR – 80%, KY- 80%, MS – 77%, MO – 70%, NC – 74%, OK – 81%, SC – 71%, TN – 83%, VA – 74%, and WV – 81%; and
in other states polled: AZ – 67%, CA – 70%, CT – 74%, MA – 73%, MN – 75%, NY – 79%, OR – 76%, and WA – 77%.
Americans believe that the candidate who receives the most votes should win.

The bill has passed 33 state legislative chambers in 22 rural, small, medium, and large states with 250 electoral votes. The bill has been enacted by 10 jurisdictions with 136 electoral votes – 50.4% of the 270 necessary to go into effect.

NationalPopularVote
Follow National Popular Vote on Facebook via NationalPopularVoteInc



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 12:39 PM
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knightsofhonor
Can somebody explain to me in more detail the understanding behind this conspiracy that the avg citizen's votes in the USA doesnt actually make somebody president?

I heard its just an illusion of democracy. Explain to me how this work please.


1. You have primarily two groups (The DNC and RNC) that selects the pool of candidates for the majority of voters to pick from.
2. You have primarily two groups (The DNC and RNC) that have hundreds of millions to spend on PR,advertising, media, and news/talk programs.
3. You have primarily two groups (The DNC and RNC) that write the rules that the candidates must have to adhere too.
4. You have primarily two groups (The DNC and RNC) that dictate who and what gets discussed during the presidential debate.
5. You have primarily two groups (The DNC and RNC) that can legally receive as much money in form of payments as it wants.


Therefore you end up getting the candidates THEY want (Like to play ball) and discussions of the issue (distractions) THEY want because they control the rules and the candidates to pick from.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by knightsofhonor
 


One of the biggest pet peeves lately is that the seemingly most popular candidate for the Republican party doesn't get the nomination to run for President. I don't know any Republicans that wanted McCain as President. Not one. At least for Romney there was a small percentage of Republicans that supported him, but still not even close to the majority. Most Democrats I know wanted Hillary Clinton to win the nomination in 2008. So when we actually get to the voting booth we may not have the person we want most on the ballot. Yes, writing it in is an option but everyone knows it's taking one vote away from your preferred political party.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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knightsofhonor
Can somebody explain to me in more detail the understanding behind this conspiracy that the avg citizen's votes in the USA doesnt actually make somebody president?

Well, people get to select potential Electoral College representatives who then vote from the very small number of lawyers that have been groomed and backed financially by the major political parties.

Now, of course, it's POSSIBLE that some ambitious, handsome guy with brilliant ideas who is not a rich lawyer or represented by major political parties might gather enough votes to become President. However, it's also possible for monkeys to fly out of my butt.
edit on 18-3-2014 by Blue Shift because: (no reason given)




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