So If Masons are not Evil, why toy with the "Holy" Bible?

ah i see i did not express the difference between constantine the original using the cross the way it is expressed in my av and constantine the pope my bad for lack of clarity

still doesn't change what i am saying about the influence of the phonecians on christiantity

he second abbreviation Christians used was the chi-rho monogram, composed of the Greek letter chi (which has the shape of an X) intersected by the letter rho. It appears in Christian writings as an abbreviation for Christ (Christos). In 312, according to the early Christian writer Lactantius, Emperor Constantine had the chi-rho marked on his soldiers' shields as they marched on Rome; according to Eusebius, he had the emblem put on a military standard. (See "Constantine's Famous Emblem" by David F. Wright.) After Constantine's victory, the chi-rho cross, often combined with the letters alpha and omega, became the ubiquitous symbol of Christianity.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by network dude


yes i see you read the source material in 3 minutes specifically Millers research at the vatican archives and roslinn chapell
maybe there is something you don't know

network dude
reply to post by Danbones

 

I belong to a group called Speculative masonry. Or Freemasonry. We use symbols to teach lessons. We are a very old fraternity. Our symbols are somewhat public knowledge. I admit to not knowing everything (or much of anything), but I have not seen a celtic cross used in freemasonry. So while it may very well have been a tool used by operative masons to square their work, it's not something that I have ever come across as a symbol in speculative masonry.

If you have something that shows where I am wrong, please show that, as I love learning new things.

i remember reading years ago that in the great pyramid in Egypt in a shaft was found a plumb bob and a tool that could be a duel purpose thing for the opening of the mouth ,i think it was DIXON found it it had a wooden handle but the British museum lost it .

When COMBINED with a wooden cross it could be used for measuring the movement of Venus .

some even think they used mirrors in Egypt to measure distance over great area's .

i cannot recall where i read all that over the years but it was downloaded into my noggin

network dude
reply to post by Danbones

 

I belong to a group called Speculative masonry. Or Freemasonry. We use symbols to teach lessons. We are a very old fraternity. Our symbols are somewhat public knowledge. I admit to not knowing everything (or much of anything), but I have not seen a celtic cross used in freemasonry. So while it may very well have been a tool used by operative masons to square their work, it's not something that I have ever come across as a symbol in speculative masonry.

If you have something that shows where I am wrong, please show that, as I love learning new things.

Based on previous research, I would hazard a guess that the celtic cross is a melding of two ages-old symbols that represent both the eternal cycling of all matter/energy and the overlap between mortal and divine. It's basically a cross (ba-dum tss) between two closely released ideals that have been passed from culture to culture for thousands of years. I would be surprised if these concepts were not valued in Freemasonry.

reply to post by Danbones


Dan, there is a lot I don't know. Apparently there is something that non masons also don't know. Just because you want something to be "masonic" doesn't make it so. If the celtic cross is a masonic symbol, that's fantastic. What does it teach, how do we used it in our allegorical stories?

I am not arguing that it's not an important piece of history. Just that to my knowledge, it's not something that Freemasons use as a recognized symbol. Again, if you can show me where I am wrong, fantastic, then we will all learn something.

Here is some of our symbols.

I am not being confrontational, just trying to keep facts on the side of truth.

ignorant_ape
reply to post by knightsofhonor

 

can you please give examples of " masonic symbology " in the KJV ?

as a previous poster has explained - there are many English translations - using various sources :

non definitive list

I just did.

For example, the Bible say that Jesus died at 33 years old.

33 is a Master Number as the Masons call it.

33 is the Highest Degree of Masonry.

Jesus died at 33, aka he died at the highest point.

Keep in mind, we dont even know when Jesus was born. His Birthday was a secret remember. Where did 33 come from.

Also his Birthday of December 25 is wrong as well, since back then there were only 10 months. December, root Deci == 10.

So the calendar is off there as well.

reply to post by knightsofhonor

No one knows exactly how old Jesus was when he died on the cross, but he was probably 33 years of age. This is drawn from two main things. First, Jesus was baptized to enter into the Melchizedek priesthood. In Matthew 3:13-15 it says, "Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?' Jesus replied, 'Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.'" Jesus got baptized to fulfill all righteousness. This fulfillment was in reference to the Old Testament requirements for being a priest, which among them was being the minimum age of 30. "from thirty years and upward, even to fifty years old, all who enter the service to do the work in the tent of meeting," (Num. 4:3). This is fulfilled in the Scriptures at Luke 3:21-23, "Now it came about when all the people were baptized, that Jesus also was baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “Thou art My beloved Son, in Thee I am well-pleased.” 23 And when He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being supposedly the son of Joseph, the son of Eli..."

Second, most Christian scholars agree that Jesus' ministry lasted 3 1/2 years. So, 30+ 3 1/2 equals the age of 33.

carm.org...

Could just be a coincidence?

knightsofhonor

ignorant_ape
reply to post by knightsofhonor

 

can you please give examples of " masonic symbology " in the KJV ?

as a previous poster has explained - there are many English translations - using various sources :

non definitive list

I just did.

For example, the Bible say that Jesus died at 33 years old.

33 is a Master Number as the Masons call it.

33 is the Highest Degree of Masonry.

Jesus died at 33, aka he died at the highest point.

Keep in mind, we dont even know when Jesus was born. His Birthday was a secret remember. Where did 33 come from.

Also his Birthday of December 25 is wrong as well, since back then there were only 10 months. December, root Deci == 10.

So the calendar is off there as well.

Or maybe both the KJV and the Masons borrowed such elements from a dozen precedent cultures that were largely oppressed and buried by the authority of the old Catholic church. There's a novel theory, eh?

AfterInfinity

knightsofhonor

ignorant_ape
reply to post by knightsofhonor

 

can you please give examples of " masonic symbology " in the KJV ?

as a previous poster has explained - there are many English translations - using various sources :

non definitive list

I just did.

For example, the Bible say that Jesus died at 33 years old.

33 is a Master Number as the Masons call it.

33 is the Highest Degree of Masonry.

Jesus died at 33, aka he died at the highest point.

Keep in mind, we dont even know when Jesus was born. His Birthday was a secret remember. Where did 33 come from.

Also his Birthday of December 25 is wrong as well, since back then there were only 10 months. December, root Deci == 10.

So the calendar is off there as well.

Or maybe both the KJV and the Masons borrowed such elements from a dozen precedent cultures that were largely oppressed and buried by the authority of the old Catholic church. There's a novel theory, eh?

edit on 18-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

the Masons predate Christianity, so thats not far figured, nor was that what I asked. Many people that controlled the Catholic Church were also Masons. This goes all the way back to Nicaea.

knightsofhonor

the Masons predate Christianity

While that would be quite cool if true, historians and scholars have been looking for proof for centuries and as of yet, can only point to a document for the 14th century.


freemasonry.bcy.ca...

knightsofhonor

AfterInfinity

knightsofhonor

ignorant_ape
reply to post by knightsofhonor

 

can you please give examples of " masonic symbology " in the KJV ?

as a previous poster has explained - there are many English translations - using various sources :

non definitive list

I just did.

For example, the Bible say that Jesus died at 33 years old.

33 is a Master Number as the Masons call it.

33 is the Highest Degree of Masonry.

Jesus died at 33, aka he died at the highest point.

Keep in mind, we dont even know when Jesus was born. His Birthday was a secret remember. Where did 33 come from.

Also his Birthday of December 25 is wrong as well, since back then there were only 10 months. December, root Deci == 10.

So the calendar is off there as well.

Or maybe both the KJV and the Masons borrowed such elements from a dozen precedent cultures that were largely oppressed and buried by the authority of the old Catholic church. There's a novel theory, eh?

edit on 18-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

the Masons predate Christianity, so thats not far figured, nor was that what I asked. Many people that controlled the Catholic Church were also Masons. This goes all the way back to Nicaea.

I'd love to see sources for that. I hope you won't be offended if I don't just take your word for it.

Danbones
if you look you will see that you have to kneel at the foot of the cross to take a BEARing on the north star which is in the constellation of the bear

Sorry, but I think you are confused, or not being clear.

The North Star, or Pole Star, is not in the constellation of the Great Bear aka Ursa Major. To take a convenient reading north (in the Northern Hemisphere), you can line up with the Big Dipper - a part of Ursa Major, but you don't need to kneel and there are other techniques.

Apart from that confusion, the rest is a bit poorly thought out.

Regards

reply to post by knightsofhonor

Most Lodges in America will use the Christian Bible, but it is not the only one a Lodge can use. We can use any of the Holy Writings out there...I would say it is up to the Brothers of the Lodge as to what Holy Book they use. Some Lodges have several different ones in the Lodge.

Francis Bacon for example who had a hand in the modern day King James Bible, was a Mason, and added Mason Symbolism into it.

What symbolism exactly did he add?

Our Obligations are taken to the god of our faith, a higher power. For me, I took my obligations on the Holy Bible as I am Christian.

reply to post by andy06shake

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

reply to post by Danbones

The cross was not an operative Masonic tool. It can be a symbol for angles and measurements, along with a great deal more, but to suggest it was a literal tool is ridiculous.

contantine was a phonecian.

No he wasn't. The Emperor Constantine was from Serbia.

they wrote the damn bible to keep the sheeps in line right from the start

^ scapegoating

and certainly weree amoungst the crew King James the gay had write the KJB for him

I do love your shining example of bigotry.

the phonecians were the makers of the royal purple DYE the greeks called them the blue people
this is where the term blue bloods comes from, as well as the word DYE-ity

Well, dye and deity are etymologically different.

reply to post by Danbones

Wow. You really are just a blind literalist. Words like symbols are arbitrary and ambiguous.

Constantine was a Mason? How do you come to that conclusion? The greater question is "can you prove any of it?"

obviously the masons know this because old glory which contains the stars the cross and the pyromids and the white crown of egypt, the red crown of egypt, and the royal blue of conastantine is a masonic symbol

Who designed Old Glory?

reply to post by KSigMason


"BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA"

I did not say that I personally put stock in there actualy being a bible code just there has been suggestions of such before. Hence a reason!

www.greatdreams.com...

www.francesandfriends.com...

reply to post by knightsofhonor

The 33rd degree is only relevant to the Scottish Rite. It is not the highest degree in Freemasonry. There are many other branches within Masonry.

reply to post by knightsofhonor

While we have legends that take us back to the time of Solomon, there's nothing to suggest predate Christianity. There's no proof that Masons existed in the time of early Christianity nor that they were part of the Councils at Nicaea.

Once you go prior to the 16th century you only have a few documents that speak of how far back Freemasonry goes and the most famous of those, Regius Poem, only dates us to 926 AD.

Back in the day masons used to meet for book-editing sessions, among which was the Bible, but we no longer do that today. Today we meet for Wikipedia-Editing sessions. The purpose is to delete and change information that might be dangerous to mankind. We don't even get paid for it. Beneath the Lodge Rooms there is a cavern with laptops in them and we sit for an hour sweeping the web for certain key information that must never see the light of day so that mankind may survive and not fall like back in Atlantis. Be happy that someone is doing it, because its no fun.

knightsofhonor

ignorant_ape
reply to post by knightsofhonor

 

can you please give examples of " masonic symbology " in the KJV ?

as a previous poster has explained - there are many English translations - using various sources :

non definitive list

I just did.

For example, the Bible say that Jesus died at 33 years old.

33 is a Master Number as the Masons call it.

33 is the Highest Degree of Masonry.

Jesus died at 33, aka he died at the highest point.

Keep in mind, we dont even know when Jesus was born. His Birthday was a secret remember. Where did 33 come from.

Also his Birthday of December 25 is wrong as well, since back then there were only 10 months. December, root Deci == 10.

So the calendar is off there as well.

33 vertebrae in the spine...which is how far the brazen serpent needs to go up the standard....

reply to post by Danbones


I don't think everybody is talking about the same Constantine. The Roman emporer was ruled from 306 CE - 337 CE. Not the same as the Pope Constantine I, was Pope from 708 CE- 715 CE.

The picture of the Celtic Cross you use for your avatar is a picture of a working celtic cross that was designed and patented by Crichton Miller of Scotland. I have had the pleasure of corresponding with him quite recently. His theory about this device are very interesting.