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What Should America Do?

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posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 05:45 AM
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DJW001
reply to post by beezzer
 



It's too late, actually.

America signed a pact with the Ukraine that it would defend the Ukraine against enemy invasion if the Ukraine agreed to get rid of it's nukes and reduce their military.

America has failed.


Quit indulging in defeatism. It is up to Congress to declare war, and in order for that to happen the electorate need to have the desire for it. It is only a matter of time before Putin slips up and harms American lives or property. Then, when the polls reach a certain percentage, the President can go to Congress and get a declaration of war.


It's not defeatism, it's the truth. As for polls, it's sad when wars are fought based on public opinion instead of right vs wrong.




posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by sparklez
 


Did you actually read what you posted? It says in greater detail what I just said.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 05:48 AM
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beezzer

DJW001
reply to post by beezzer
 



It's too late, actually.

America signed a pact with the Ukraine that it would defend the Ukraine against enemy invasion if the Ukraine agreed to get rid of it's nukes and reduce their military.

America has failed.


Quit indulging in defeatism. It is up to Congress to declare war, and in order for that to happen the electorate need to have the desire for it. It is only a matter of time before Putin slips up and harms American lives or property. Then, when the polls reach a certain percentage, the President can go to Congress and get a declaration of war.


It's not defeatism, it's the truth. As for polls, it's sad when wars are fought based on public opinion instead of right vs wrong.


It's sad when wars are fought at all. Unfortunately the general public cannot understand the concept of war as foreign policy by other means.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 05:48 AM
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DJW001
reply to post by sparklez
 


Did you actually read what you posted? It says in greater detail what I just said.



yes and I quote you



Quit indulging in defeatism. It is up to Congress to declare war, and in order for that to happen the electorate need to have the desire for it. It is only a matter of time before Putin slips up and harms American lives or property. Then, when the polls reach a certain percentage, the President can go to Congress and get a declaration of war.


It is not entirely up to congress to declare war. The president does not need their prior approval under the conditions set out in that federal act.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 05:50 AM
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sparklez

DJW001
reply to post by sparklez
 


Did you actually read what you posted? It says in greater detail what I just said.



yes and I quote you



Quit indulging in defeatism. It is up to Congress to declare war, and in order for that to happen the electorate need to have the desire for it. It is only a matter of time before Putin slips up and harms American lives or property. Then, when the polls reach a certain percentage, the President can go to Congress and get a declaration of war.


It is not entirely up to congress to declare war. The president does not need their prior approval under the conditions set out in that federal act.


The President can respond to a crisis with military action, but then he has to go to Congress for a declaration of war.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 05:50 AM
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beezzer
America has failed.

What's done is done. We are no longer a super power. We are reducing our own military after a decade-long war.



We are reducing our own military after nearly a century-long crime against humanity.




beezzer
Our economy is a wreck. Unemployment is running at @ 20 -24%.
Our country is being fundamentally transformed.




Our economy is being looted by our zero integrity politicians, Wall Street and the central banksters. It is being transformed into a scorched-earth ruin.





beezzer
Cowardice and corruption run rampant throughout our capitals. Our political leadership is a sham, a farce, a joke.





The people running our country are not cowards. They are c r i m i n a l s and they specialize in crimes-against-humanity and crimes-against-the-peace.

We don't have political leadership. We have a political gangster mafia shredding the world while simultaneously shredding this country.

We are circling the drain. How long can you hold your breath?



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 05:51 AM
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DJW001

sparklez

DJW001
reply to post by sparklez
 


Did you actually read what you posted? It says in greater detail what I just said.



yes and I quote you



Quit indulging in defeatism. It is up to Congress to declare war, and in order for that to happen the electorate need to have the desire for it. It is only a matter of time before Putin slips up and harms American lives or property. Then, when the polls reach a certain percentage, the President can go to Congress and get a declaration of war.


It is not entirely up to congress to declare war. The president does not need their prior approval under the conditions set out in that federal act.


The President can respond to a crisis with military action, but then he has to go to Congress for a declaration of war.


You stated "It is up to Congress to declare war", as far as I knew, military action is war. I am sure they're not firing tickling sticks or feathers or perhaps maybe you just fall for the Bush and Chenny terminology changes such as "kinetic event" and "pre-emptive spreading democracy".


edit on 18-3-2014 by sparklez because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 05:52 AM
link   

DJW001

beezzer

DJW001
reply to post by beezzer
 



It's too late, actually.

America signed a pact with the Ukraine that it would defend the Ukraine against enemy invasion if the Ukraine agreed to get rid of it's nukes and reduce their military.

America has failed.


Quit indulging in defeatism. It is up to Congress to declare war, and in order for that to happen the electorate need to have the desire for it. It is only a matter of time before Putin slips up and harms American lives or property. Then, when the polls reach a certain percentage, the President can go to Congress and get a declaration of war.


It's not defeatism, it's the truth. As for polls, it's sad when wars are fought based on public opinion instead of right vs wrong.


It's sad when wars are fought at all. Unfortunately the general public cannot understand the concept of war as foreign policy by other means.


War is what happens when politicians fail at their job.

We won't see war, however, because Obama has no stomach, nor backbone to lead a nation to war.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 05:53 AM
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beezzer

DJW001

beezzer

DJW001
reply to post by beezzer
 



It's too late, actually.

America signed a pact with the Ukraine that it would defend the Ukraine against enemy invasion if the Ukraine agreed to get rid of it's nukes and reduce their military.

America has failed.


Quit indulging in defeatism. It is up to Congress to declare war, and in order for that to happen the electorate need to have the desire for it. It is only a matter of time before Putin slips up and harms American lives or property. Then, when the polls reach a certain percentage, the President can go to Congress and get a declaration of war.


It's not defeatism, it's the truth. As for polls, it's sad when wars are fought based on public opinion instead of right vs wrong.


It's sad when wars are fought at all. Unfortunately the general public cannot understand the concept of war as foreign policy by other means.


War is what happens when politicians fail at their job.

We won't see war, however, because Obama has no stomach, nor backbone to lead a nation to war.


That's what his opponents want you to believe. Only time will tell.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 06:15 AM
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I look at it like this:

"We're damned if we do. We're damned if we don't."

If we do anything, many people (including many of our own citizens) will look at us, the USA, as the aggressor and a bully.

If we don't do anything, it sends a signal to other countries that can be aggressive in their own right that it's okay for them to do it, and it also shows that our promises are empty (the agreement with the Ukraine).

Personally I'm tired of hearing just how much the USA is the "bad guy" by other countries (especially those that are suppose to be allies and friends), and I really think that our actions over the past decade have not helped at all in that regard.

I think we should just pull up stakes, be here at home, and ignore the rest of the world. We have the resources to make whatever we want to make, feed all our people and provide our own energy needs as it is if we put our minds to it.

Defend our own home, respond with force only if attacked upon our own land and territories.

Stop giving money to other countries. Spend that money HERE at home.

Of course the last time we practiced this, the Germans swept through Europe, Italy invaded North Africa and Japan was gobbling up the Pacific.

Maybe after WW2, we should have not tried to practice "Containment" and let the USSR do whatever it wanted. Maybe we should have let them have all of Berlin....and west Germany.

Maybe we should have simply let North Korea swallow up South Korea. I mean we did eventually let that happen to South Vietnam.

Maybe we should just be here, and when things happen else where, shrug our shoulders and say "Too bad. Sucks to be you. No, sorry, no food, aid, or relief from us. Good thing it didn't happen to us."

But then, if we did that, we'd be demonized again: USA: the country that doesn't give a crap and doesn't help. You should of helped. You should have stopped so and so from doing such and such.

You see? Damned if we do, Damned if we don't.

Personally I'm tired of the Damned if we do part.

I think it's time we just kept to ourselves and go with the Damned if we don't part. Just shrug our shoulders and take care of business here at home. Let the rest of the world take care of themselves.

I'm sure that no one needs our help or aid or food or anything else. I'm pretty sure all the rest of the countries out there will be just fine with out us.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 06:23 AM
link   

DJW001

beezzer

DJW001

beezzer

DJW001
reply to post by beezzer
 



It's too late, actually.

America signed a pact with the Ukraine that it would defend the Ukraine against enemy invasion if the Ukraine agreed to get rid of it's nukes and reduce their military.

America has failed.


Quit indulging in defeatism. It is up to Congress to declare war, and in order for that to happen the electorate need to have the desire for it. It is only a matter of time before Putin slips up and harms American lives or property. Then, when the polls reach a certain percentage, the President can go to Congress and get a declaration of war.


It's not defeatism, it's the truth. As for polls, it's sad when wars are fought based on public opinion instead of right vs wrong.


It's sad when wars are fought at all. Unfortunately the general public cannot understand the concept of war as foreign policy by other means.


War is what happens when politicians fail at their job.

We won't see war, however, because Obama has no stomach, nor backbone to lead a nation to war.


That's what his opponents want you to believe. Only time will tell.


Sadly thats what he has proven so far so, no, time has already spoken.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 06:35 AM
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Yusomad

DJW001

beezzer

DJW001

beezzer

DJW001
reply to post by beezzer
 



It's too late, actually.

America signed a pact with the Ukraine that it would defend the Ukraine against enemy invasion if the Ukraine agreed to get rid of it's nukes and reduce their military.

America has failed.


Quit indulging in defeatism. It is up to Congress to declare war, and in order for that to happen the electorate need to have the desire for it. It is only a matter of time before Putin slips up and harms American lives or property. Then, when the polls reach a certain percentage, the President can go to Congress and get a declaration of war.


It's not defeatism, it's the truth. As for polls, it's sad when wars are fought based on public opinion instead of right vs wrong.


It's sad when wars are fought at all. Unfortunately the general public cannot understand the concept of war as foreign policy by other means.


War is what happens when politicians fail at their job.

We won't see war, however, because Obama has no stomach, nor backbone to lead a nation to war.


That's what his opponents want you to believe. Only time will tell.


Sadly thats what he has proven so far so, no, time has already spoken.


That was Putin's tragic mistake. He listened to the President's political opponents, rather than judging him by his actions. Obama wisely refused to be drawn into street revolts in the Muslim world, knowing that American involvement would poison whichever side the US backed. Now he is presented with a European crisis where he can rely on NATO support and the gratitude of the nation he sides with.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by DJW001
 


What is your opinion on the pact with Ukraine?


When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the newly independent Ukraine had on its territory what was the third largest strategic nuclear weapons arsenal in the world. It was larger than those of Britain, France, and China combined. On June 1, 1996 Ukraine became a non-nuclear nation when it sent the last of its 1,900 strategic nuclear warheads to Russia for dismantling.[1] The first shipment of nuclear weapons from Ukraine to Russia (by train) was in March 1994.[2] In return for giving up its nuclear weapons, Ukraine, the United States of America, Russia, and the United Kingdom signed the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, pledging to respect Ukraine territorial integrity, a pledge that was arguably broken by Russia's 2014 invasion of Crimea.[3] However, there is a dispute whether Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances is anything more than a general statement of intent, lacking the rigor of an international treaty and accompanying ratification procedure.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 06:44 AM
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reply to post by sparklez
 


There is a HUGE difference between the President sending in a carrier group and a few SeAL teams for a month and our nation being raised to a war footing. Compare Libya to Afghanistan. One was the President and one was Congress. Neither was justified.

Sometimes war is the right thing. To believe otherwise is the mindset of the coward. America's Civil War and WWII are two wars that can be argued as justifiable. One for the outcome and the other needs no explanation at all.

The Crimea being taken back by Russia can be argued either way. A hostile act or protection of Russian citizens. Russian moving troops into neighboring countries at the same time is nothing short of expansion. Lebensraum was Germany's excuse. Protection of Russian citizens is Putin's. Read about the taking of Poland and see how similar the events were. And yes, the international community said "there, and no further" back then too.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 



What is your opinion on the pact with Ukraine?


It needs to be honored for the sake of non-proliferation and national credibility.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 06:48 AM
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DJW001
reply to post by beezzer
 



What is your opinion on the pact with Ukraine?


It needs to be honored for the sake of non-proliferation and national credibility.


I agree, as much as I hate to admit it.

But from what I've seen, I don't see the moves being taken, nor the diplomatic steps being taken to honor the agreement.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 06:48 AM
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beezzer
War is what happens when politicians fail at their job.

We won't see war, however, because Obama has no stomach, nor backbone to lead a nation to war.

This is the much more important statement here!
And very true, ask your sevice-men and women, they know, and they have to pay the bill.
War is NOT foreign policy by other means, it is evidence of its failure.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 06:48 AM
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DJW001
reply to post by beezzer
 



What is your opinion on the pact with Ukraine?


It needs to be honored for the sake of non-proliferation and national credibility.


For being in favour of non-proliferation there is a lot of proliferation of facism spreading and with regard to credibility, there is none. All the facists want is to get into NATO and grab as many weapons as they can from NATO and fight Russia or have NATO fight their war for them (that was stated by a member of the facists in Ukraine). Let's not kid ourselves, they ARE facists and have bad intentions for Ukraine, I honestly don't care whether they want independent, in the Eu or in Russia, the fact is, I DON'T WANT THESE CRAZY PEOPLE IN POWER and access to ARMS.

Even some NATO members don't want them. They are DANGERIOUS.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by eriktheawful
 


I agree with this as well, we should also just pull all our military assets and position them in a defensive position around our territory. We then just have the NSA monitor the rest of the country's. Meanwhile we start-up old factory's/farms and clean up all the greed in Washington.

Let the rest of the world do their own thing. Sure one would say that if you just sit home with you head in the sand, we would not see a sneak attack. I call BS. with our level of technology we could just sit back.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 06:58 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Patriotism and balls?

Trust me when I tell you, that these things could not be less important to this scenario. For a start, Russia has behaved poorly toward the Ukraine, not the USA. It is not part of the USA which is being slowly annexed from under its people, but part of the Ukraine. So patriotism could not be less relevant, on the part of the USA, and its people. It is people in high places, having a territorial gonad comparison contest, which has delivered the situation which currently prevails, so relying on balls to save the proverbial bacon at this point, is going to be rather like attempting to cure arthritis with a club hammer.

Frankly speaking, the entire diplomatic situation as it stands is the result of weakness on all fronts. Russia is so weak now, that in order for its people to continue to vote for their current leader, they have to be entertained and directed toward a certain mentality, that of conquest. The United States of America has no legitimate position from which to cast aspersions on Russia in this way, because the government of the USA has been involved in military strategy which also has more to do with keeping its population distracted, than achieving anything meaningful in the theaters in which it currently operates, so any comment from them is the pot calling the kettle black.

The USA will LOOK weak if they fail to act, but the big question here is, does it actually matter how strong the US looks? As far as I can make out, the only important thing about any of this, is making sure that as little blood is spilled as possible during this entire clusterbang. All other concerns are irrelevant, all other considerations and motivations are futile and beneath notice during such trying times, as those being suffered by pro-western Ukrainians in Crimea. The wider political situation between Russia and THE ENTIRE WEST, NOT JUST THE USA, is NOT the most important thing about this scenario, and until the leaders of the west and east realise this, and pull their heads from without their colons, this fact will be ignored largely speaking.
edit on 18-3-2014 by TrueBrit because: Spelling mistakes required rectification, which they have now received.



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