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Guinness Opts Out of NYC’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade Over Anti-Gay Policy

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posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 10:09 AM
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I think it's great to see corporations taking an ethical stance who cares why they do it. The result is the same.
Almost makes me want to drink a Guineas. Almost.




posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 10:15 AM
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WilsonWilson
I think it's great to see corporations taking an ethical stance who cares why they do it. The result is the same.
Almost makes me want to drink a Guineas. Almost.


Corporations take ethical stances all the time. The question is whose ethics are their stances based on? And that's usually the point of contention.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by Greven
 


He's actually got a point. What does homosexuality have to do with St. Patrick's Day? The way it looks from where I'm sitting, everyone wants to be a part of every celebration until we're celebrating everything there is to celebrate several times a year. Sounds like everyone just wants an excuse to pretend they are special and they deserve recognition for existing in a particular capacity, whether it be as an Irish descendant or a homosexual. Why don't we have Chinese merchants celebrating how much of our American appliances and products are only American because of the money that purchased them? Throw those guys into the next parade. Or maybe representatives of various national news teams celebrating their ability to feed us BS with little to no repercussions because of legislative loopholes allowing them to broadcast anything but the truth? Why don't we celebrate that too? I mean, as long as we're making people feel special, we ought to look at the people who really make a difference. Not a positive difference, but a difference.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by ChaosEpsilon
 





Homosexuality is a mental illness.


If that is mental illness, then what would you call people who are left handed?

I see it as the same thing.


No matter what sexuality, i don't like parades. Or want kids to see "cameltoe" or "bulge".



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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AfterInfinity
reply to post by Greven
 

He's actually got a point. What does homosexuality have to do with St. Patrick's Day?

He only has a point when arguing from ignorance. The article linked in the OP is inaccessible unless you're a Newsweek subscriber, perhaps purposely so given the OP's opinion:

I don't understand why it is so important for an army of gay people to prance around in a St. Patrick's day parade.

I would think that ATS would be the one of the places where forum members question what they are told, but in this thread and some others, I'm seeing that it is rather similar to elsewhere on the net.

There are articles elsewhere regarding this issue. While both Boston and New York City are pretty friendly environments for LGBT people, the parades in both cities are run by private groups. These private groups specifically exclude LGBT people from identifying as such. It's been going on for a long time in NYC, just as it has in Boston.

Boston's organizers are explicit:

The parade organisers have consistently argued that being forced to permit openly gay marchers would conflict with their belief, rooted in their Roman Catholic heritage, that homosexuality is immoral.


New York City's organizers are pretty much the same in this regard, but are always evasive about saying it explicitly, even though they went to court over being able to ban LGBT marchers (they won claiming free speech and assembly allows them to exclude). This is why the issue persists to this day. Various other groups march in the parades, such as military and police in uninform, among other organizations and groups.

I'm sure people would have objections to the military and police being there too, but they remain because they don't clash with the organizers' religious claims.
edit on 12Tue, 18 Mar 2014 12:07:40 -0500America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago3 by Greven because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by Greven
 



He only has a point when arguing from ignorance. The article linked in the OP is inaccessible unless you're a Newsweek subscriber, perhaps purposely so given the OP's opinion:


I can access it perfectly, so maybe the problem isn't the OP.



There are articles elsewhere regarding this issue. While both Boston and New York City are pretty friendly environments for LGBT people, the parades in both cities are run by private groups. These private groups specifically exclude LGBT people from identifying as such. It's been going on for a long time in NYC, just as it has in Boston.

Boston's organizers are explicit:


They have the right to practice their religion, and quite frankly, seizing a St. Patrick's Day parade as an opportunity to celebrate being homosexual is just stupid. St. Patrick has nothing to do with homosexuals, and the gays have no right to commandeer a celebration of European heritage and religious commemoration in order to send a message they can broadcast any day of the week. Give the Irish their chance to shine - even though 90% of the people celebrating aren't Irish, green isn't St. Patty's color (it's blue), and traditionally, the holiday is observed through abstinence and not alcoholism. So the gays should not feel left out, they should be thankful that they are not participating in such a flamboyant display of American idiocy. Pick another day and save yourselves the humiliation.



edit on 18-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Greven
 


I will ask you the same I have asked others on here. Why does the St. Patty's Day have to be sexualized at all ? Why does anything outside of specific gay functions (parades, parties) have to be sexualized ? Why couldn't the gay people just attend or march in the parade as people ? Why do they have to designate themselves as gay in this particular instance ? I have black friends that find it ridiculous for a person of color to insist on identifying themselves in every instance as an "African American" or 'black man or woman". I hear it all the time in movies and on tv a woman telling her husband "you are a handsome intelligent black man", or "she is a very successful African American Woman". Ehy not just a handsome intelligent man, and a successful woman ?
Homosexuals are trying to push to be equal and have equal rights yet their actions are saying another thing. I have never ever told my wife she is a "beautiful white heterosexual woman" before. We identify ourselves as people, not white people, not straight people, but people.

If it is truly equality you seek and nothing else then why not identify yourself as an equal ? There is a time and place for everything.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 


There's really no difference between homosexuals insisting on participating in the St. Patty's parade and churches insisting on having services in public schools. I don't see what's so difficult to grasp about keeping peas with the peas and carrots with the carrots. Mixed veggies are all well and good, but save it for the bag marked "mixed veggies". It's not complicated, honestly.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 01:08 PM
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AfterInfinity
reply to post by Greven
 

They have the right to practice their religion, and quite frankly, seizing a St. Patrick's Day parade as an opportunity to celebrate being homosexual is just stupid. St. Patrick has nothing to do with homosexuals, and the gays have no right to commandeer a celebration of European heritage and religious commemoration in order to send a message they can broadcast any day of the week. Give the Irish their chance to shine - even though 90% of the people celebrating aren't Irish, green isn't St. Patty's color (it's blue), and traditionally, the holiday is observed through abstinence and not alcoholism.

You should say the same of every other group which is in St. Patrick's Day parades - military, police, etc. They certainly aren't all Irish. Some of these gay groups are, though. Perhaps you didn't bother to read some of those links in my previous post?

When the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization (ILGO) asked to join the parade in late 1990, their request was denied, but the organizers insisted it had nothing to do with the belief that homosexuality and Irish Catholicism don't mix. The Ancient Order of Hibernians, which has run the 252-year-old parade since about 1851, argued that it wouldn't be fair to let gay groups march, claiming that 30 organizations were already waiting for admittance to an event that the city wanted to reduce in scale. But when the Irish Lesbian and Gay Organization asked to see the waiting list, the organizers refused.

Sure, the organizers can do what they want. That doesn't make it right.

If you substitute any other group for "homosexuals/gays/lesbians" in your argument, nothing would change in my mind:

They have the right to practice their religion, and quite frankly, seizing a St. Patrick's Day parade as an opportunity to celebrate being Jewish is just stupid. St. Patrick has nothing to do with Jews, and the Jews have no right to commandeer a celebration of European heritage and religious commemoration in order to send a message they can broadcast any day of the week. Give the Irish their chance to shine - even though 90% of the people celebrating aren't Irish, green isn't St. Patty's color (it's blue), and traditionally, the holiday is observed through abstinence and not alcoholism.

That's cool by you, right? Same argument, only the group is replaced. If the organizers are allowing various groups of non-Irish to be in the parade, why not the specifically Irish LGBT groups? I refer again to articles I previously linked:

Across the Atlantic in the land that inspired St. Patrick's Day, hundreds of thousands of people crowded the center of Dublin for Ireland's major parade. The hour-long procession featured loads of wit, brightly colored costumes and dancers, including from Ireland's gay community — and nobody had a public word to say about it.


Boston's new mayor, Martin Walsh, opted out of his city's parade Sunday after talks broke down that would have allowed a gay veterans group to march. Late last week, The Boston Beer Company, brewer of Samuel Adams, also pulled its support.

So Boston organizers banned gay Irish veterans from being in the parade, but they are just fine with non-Irish straight veterans.


Christian Voice
reply to post by Greven
 

I will ask you the same I have asked others on here. Why does the St. Patty's Day have to be sexualized at all ? Why does anything outside of specific gay functions (parades, parties) have to be sexualized ?

Why do the parades have to be militarized? Why do police get to attend? There are a myriad of nonsensical questions like this. All the LGBT groups want to do is identify themselves as such. No sexuality on display other than a banner.


AfterInfinity
reply to post by Greven
 

Pick another day and save yourselves the humiliation.


Christian Voice
reply to post by Greven
 

If it is truly equality you seek and nothing else then why not identify yourself as an equal ? There is a time and place for everything.

I'm not sure why you both address me personally, here. Do you assume that I am gay? I'm about as far as one can be from it, truth be told.
edit on 13Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:10:11 -0500America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago3 by Greven because: (no reason given)

edit on 13Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:11:42 -0500America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago3 by Greven because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


I have been a Christian my entire life. I went to public school in Memphis TN and can honestly tell you I have never ever been to a Church service in school. I have been to Christmas plays and such, but Christmas is a Christian holiday, I guess you can keep Christmas out of schools if it makes you happy. We are talking apples and oranges here. I'm asking why do homosexuals feel they need to identify themselves in every instance as homosexual people ? Honestly, are they sexual 24/7 ? It is no secret how I feel about homosexuality but if you didn't identify as such, then how would I identify you ? I had a friend in high school that died several years ago . He was a black man. He was the valedictorian, I was the salutatorian and we were great friends and I miss him terribly. I found his little brother on Facebook two years ago and we talked for a bit and I quickly learned how he identified himself. He is an author and his FB page says "Meet a truly successful African American". He told me he is a very highly published black man. He referred to himself over and over as a black man or an African American. I never viewed his brother as anything but a person, a great man and friend. He never identified himself the way his brother does.
My point is, I viewed my friend as a man and my friend, his brother I view now as a black man. He confuses me so much. We are not defined by our skin color or hair color or IQ or orientation. There is much more to me than my skin color or my orientation.
I am a nerd LOL
I am a rock hound (have a huge rock and fossil collection)
I am a Christian
I am a father
I am a husband
I am a fisherman
I am a romantic
Notice I never identified as a heterosexual nerd or heterosexual fisherman. I only identify as such when inquired as to such. There is no need to ever mention it to anyone. My sexual preferences are nobody's business.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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Why are people calling it St Patty's? It's Paddy's.



Christian Voice
reply to post by markosity1973
 


Hellooooo, straight people are not flaunting their sexuality in them. Again, why does their sexual preferences have to be brought into the equation at all ? Why can't they just march as people and leave their sexual preferences at home ? Why do they have to be gay people ? I am a Veteran and I have been in a few Veterans parades and I did not march as a straight person, I marched as a Veteran.


Oh I don't know, maybe because straight people haven't been persecuted, imprisoned, killed or chemically castrated for their sexuality for centuries.

Numerous countries around the world still have these punishments for LGBT people and some countries are even regressing to re-apply them. This thread and similar posts prove how disturbingly common these views are. It's completely moronic to try and say straight people suffer the same way.

Doesn't the ban on gay pride marchers but allowance of terrorist fund-raisers to take part not demonstrate to you some sections of society still consider gay people criminals, far worse than those who blow up innocent civilians?

As for Guinness, good on them for standing up for minorities - even if it was just to increase profits on Paddy's Day - I'll drink to that.
edit on 18-3-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 01:38 PM
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See I was raised to believe if your not invited,your not wanted.Period.What part is hard to understand?
Also you can't legislate respect.No matter how much whining is done.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by bastion
 


Seriously ? That is your reply ? Persecution is why a homosexual identifies as such ?



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 


You must have completely missed the point.

Gay people have been persecuted for centuries and nowadays are usually allowed to hold parades in a few more advanced countries in the world - if it were another country, or a few decades ago, they'd face prison for being gay - hence the need to continue to raise awareness, acceptance and the like to say 'never again' to that kind of backwards treatment.

Straight people can march whenever and wherever they want because they don't and never have faced persecution, hence a march is stupid.

See the difference now?

edit on 18-3-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)


I don't mean this is an offensive way but you come across as like me a white, middle-class, male who has never experienced discrimination, imprisonment, punishment or persecution for the way we were born; hence why you don't understand why those that do often consider it an important part of their identity and are proud of it.
edit on 18-3-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by bastion
 


No I do not see the difference. I'm asking, is sexual orientation the culmination of the existence of the homosexual ? I'm saying if you are gay that is your business but why do you have to go out of your way to identify yourself by who you choose to sleep with ? Outside of the bedroom what difference does it make ? In a St. Patrick's Day Parade why does someone feel the need to identify as hetero or homo ?
In a gay pride parade there is the point of identifying with that part of who you are. I don't know about you but at a Christmas parade or St. Patricks Day Parade, or the mall, or Chick Fil A I'm not sexual at all. I'm entertained, or shopping, or eating. I run into a friend from high school and he introduces me to his life partner that's fine but standing up at Red Lobster and tongue kissing just to see everyone's reaction is ridiculous.
TIME AND PLACE



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Christian Voice
 


Because we don't yet live in a utopian world where people are judged on their character not their skin colour, sexuality, gender etc...

We instead live in a world where in countries like Uganda, the national press print names and pictures of 200 gay people and call for them to be executed and consenting adults get life in prison for having sex.

Would you not feel the need to assert yourself as Christian if your fellow Christians suffered that kind of treatment? Sorry for my tone in the first post I forgot how easy it is to take our privilege for granted and not understand these things.

edit on 18-3-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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Looks like I will be opting out of purchasing any guinness products.

Not because I hate gay people, but because I despise any company that gives into whatever leftist cause whines the loudest.

Damn shame, Guinness was tasty.
edit on 18-3-2014 by doubletap because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:45 PM
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bastion
Why are people calling it St Patty's? It's Paddy's.



Christian Voice
reply to post by markosity1973
 



Oh I don't know, maybe because straight people haven't been persecuted, imprisoned, killed or chemically castrated for their sexuality for centuries.


Please take a history class.


If it is simply about sexuality then what about the thousands upon thousands of women who committed adultery and many were persecuted and stoned to death with no real evidence of their wrong acts. I don't condone adultery but I most certainly think that stoning, burning at the stake, and being hung are by far too extreme. These women who actually committed adultery most likely just wanted some real companionship and to be wanted etc... They did not deserve the treatment they received either.

Heterosexual women have gone through hell in the past from being burned at the stake to being beaten, raped, murdered all for being a women with no real say. Not always adultery that has made men mistreat women. Gay Kings (Rumored, Edward the 2nd) have beaten their women slaves. Far more heterosexual women have been murdered than gay men and women combined but I have yet to see any heterosexual women trying to take parades away from others and make it all about them and their cause.

Not to say that heterosexaul women don't have their causes, they do but they don't make St Patty's day all about them, or your gay pride parade either.

As I have stated before most of us straight folks don't even care about people being gay but not everything in the world has to do with being gay, not everything in the USA has to do with gays being gay. Not every parade belongs to you and your cause.

The more you all try to force people to accept you the more they want you back in the closet. Gay men and women are only making things worse for themselves.












edit on 18-3-2014 by brandiwine14 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by brandiwine14
 



The more you all try to force people to accept you the more they want you back in the closet. Gay men and women are only making things for worse for themselves.


"The more you all try to force people to accept you, the more they want you back in the cotton field. Black men and women are only making things worse for themselves."

Bolded words are changes I made, illustrating the sort of mentality you're displaying here. 100 years ago, the same thing was said about black people. The same thing was said about women. The same thing was said about anyone who threatened the power and authority of the white man. If you wouldn't agree with slavery or the oppression of females, then why would you agree with this?

Just to be clear: I agree with the general point you were making, but this particular bit was in need of addressing.
edit on 18-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


I could care less if someones black, gay, straight, or whatever. If I had a straight friend who was constantly in my face with "Im straight, accept it, i'm straight except it" "Oh my god", "i'm straight ACCEPT IT" and yadda yadda I would also turn away from their friendship.


My point as well as many others is the majority of people don't care, the don't. The only ones I really see making being gay an issue is the gays.

I am not a hateful person at all but i'm honest, and I say what I see.

edit
I'm not sure what you are talking about? The only thing I don't agree with is Gays making EVERYTHING about them, can that be any clearer. The world isn't turning because the gays are spinning it.

I don't condone the mistreatment of anyone even the ....dreaded white man who is responsible for every single wrong ever committed in the history of the entire universe, jeez people.

We are veering off topic here. Guinness is wrong period and they lost a lot of business catering to whiners. The gays are just up in arms because they were not allowed to advertise their agenda. The only rainbow flag in the parade should have been the one with gold at the end of it.


From here on out, i'm only replying to the op's topic, Guinness and their refusal.
If anyone wants to actually continue their conversation with me then do so in a message and I will respond in kind.
edit on 18-3-2014 by brandiwine14 because: (no reason given)



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