Guinness Opts Out of NYC’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade Over Anti-Gay Policy

Christian Voice
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Okay, let me break this down into bite sized chunks as you do ask some good questions.

Look, all I'm saying is why does any form of sexuality have to be involved in these types of things.

The unfortunate thing about being gay is that it is about sexuality. Other than that I am just the same as you, whether you choose to accept that or not.

Gay pride parades are about gay pride, so I get that, gay people displaying their sexuality is an expected behavior at that type of parade.

Yes, gay parades are about showing pride in being who you are. Yes this means that sexuality is displayed and it is very 'colourful' shall I say. I've been to parades and even I as a gay person have been offended at what I saw going on in one float. (What I saw was banned from there on)

The examples you used for heterosexuals flaunting their sexuality is not anywhere near what I was driving at. My issue is why turn everything sexual, gay or straight ?

My intent was not to offend you, just show you that straight people also have events to celebrate sexuality. I deliberately chose that vid because no sexual images were in it in the hopes that the message, not the content would be understood.

People are gay, I get that. I do not personally agree but I get it. But why make everything sexual at all ? That is not the sum of the gay person I hope. I hope there is much more to them than just sexuality.

I could fill an entire thread with the answer to this one. Long story short, when a gay person comes out, they do go through a 'phase' where everything is gay, gay, gay. It's kind of like a prisoner being released - they go nuts with their new found freedom. However after a while they settle down and become like me - rather boring and almost invisible in society. I spend more time thinking about where I am going to go camping on my next weekend or what's for dinner that I do my sexuality.

My point about the Veterans parade is I marched as a Veteran, not as a heterosexual. My sexuality does not define me. I am far more than my sexuality. I do not bring it into my son's school, or to the mall, or into Veteran's parades, or into anything else outside the privacy of my bedroom. I do not even discuss my sexuality with my closest of friends, it's none of their business. If you are gay or anyone else is for that matter, do you wish to be defined merely by your sexual preferences ?

My response above partially answers this one. The other point is that gay people suffer. I know many of you don't believe it, but we do. I had a mental breakdown and attempted suicide at the age of 17 over my sexuality. It took me a full 15 years to completely escape the depression that it caused me. I know other people suffer and I do not wish to make light of anyone else's problems. What I am trying to say and why I vehemently defend the gay community is because there is so much damned negativity toward it from the real world, even today.

As for being defined by my sexual preference, well that is up to you and how you percieve me. Here's some of how I see myself in descending order from most to least important

40 years old
Could lose a few pounds
Love cars and tractors
Love the outdoors
Love my caravan
Wish I had more money
Miss the farm back in New Zealand
(sometimes) Love my partner
Gay

There is more to me than that and that list made me think lol, but you get the idea; gay is now at the bottom of the list for me, as i would suspect straight is for you.



That is what I'm driving at.

brandiwine14
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Being gay has nothing to do with St Patrick, nothing at all, being a straight venomous being has nothing to do with being gay so again I ask would you march next to someone from Westboro?

Ahh, so you can make a distinction when it's a straight person. Try that same logic on a gay person now. As for the question at hand, it would depend what the Westboro people were picketing.

Let's not use Westboro as an example as I think we can both agree that they are radicals and do not represent the bulk of the population.

Let's choose say the dawn parade we celebrate down here in the Antipodes. It's kind of like Christian voice's vet parade, but it remembers the ANZAC soldiers of WW1 and WW2. I've marched in it loads of times shoulder to shoulder with everyone else to remember the fallen soldiers of our 2 great little southern nations. I'm there as a supporter of the soldiers and their memory. It also happens that I am gay, but in this situation, attention is on the soldiers.

When I partake in loads of things it's the issue first, gay second. However, there are some times when it is appropriate for my gay to be displayed. I shouldn't have to only be able to display my sexuality in gay parades. That is what you call stereotyping. St Patty's day is just a loud boozy festival where everyone lets their hair down. It should be the sort of place where gay people can have an open presence.

reply to post by brandiwine14


Neither does being a cop or a firefighter or a politician or a cheerleader or a high school or a football team but their they all are representing those things. What have they to do with Ireland or a Catholic Saint?

Many business owners walk the parade or ride a float, they walk with their husbands/wives holding hands, holding hands with their children isn't that being openly straight?

Kali74
reply to post by brandiwine14

 

Neither does being a cop or a firefighter or a politician or a cheerleader or a high school or a football team but their they all are representing those things. What have they to do with Ireland or a Catholic Saint?


Many business owners walk the parade or ride a float, they walk with their husbands/wives holding hands, holding hands with their children isn't that being openly straight?

edit on 3/17/2014 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)

They are not pushing their politics or sexuality on anyone.

Are the moms and dads wearing proud to be straight shirts? If not your argument hold no merit.

Metallicus
I don't understand why it is so important for an army of gay people to prance around in a St. Patrick's day parade. Being gay doesn't have anything to do with St. Patrick and in fact it is offensive to many who celebrate this as a religious holiday.

And why (on Earth) should gays not being able to prance around St.Patrick's day parades?
Sorry I cannot follow your logic. Are there any other groups, races etc. who are forbidden to attend those parades?
Are gays "sub-humans" who are not supposed to have the same rights like other people?
Because that's EXACTLY what you propose here! You want a law/rule forbidding gays to attend the parades.

it is offensive to many who celebrate this as a religious holiday.

Who cares!!??

Lol@religious holiday. When I was living in the states I had not, not even remotely the impression that it was a "religious" holiday. It may be, in essence but YOU KNOW that in practice it's a bunch of people getting drunk and parades.
But..let's play this game further, don't we. Let's forbid gays to celebrate Christmas and/or attend any Christmas events, celebrations etc. and whatever other festivities there are. I mean...look! GAYS! How can they even dare to do the same things like other people??

Guinness did the right thing. The more we Europeans distance us from US religious zealots/bigots the better.

brandiwine14

Kali74
reply to post by brandiwine14

 

Neither does being a cop or a firefighter or a politician or a cheerleader or a high school or a football team but their they all are representing those things. What have they to do with Ireland or a Catholic Saint?


Many business owners walk the parade or ride a float, they walk with their husbands/wives holding hands, holding hands with their children isn't that being openly straight?

edit on 3/17/2014 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)

They are not pushing their politics or sexuality on anyone either.

Are the moms and dads wearing proud to be straight shirts? If not your argument is moot.

No.

Attending a gay parade and a male / female openly kissing and hugging is openly pushing their sexuality. It happens all the time and I've witnessed more that just kissing and hugging happenning Straight people do it in a manner so as to try and cause upset, not that I care personally.

As for the 'proud to be straight' t shirts, I fail to see how that invalidates the argument. They really could wear them if they wanted, nobody would really care. It's only when people start really antagonising at gay rallies do they get a response.
Otherwise, we're used to being heckled and belittled.

reply to post by markosity1973


Bottom line, did the committee say gay men and women were not allowed to hold hands and be near each other? I don't believe so. If they said that then maybe you guys would have evidence of discrimination. Find me the passage it said no hand holding or kissing? Find me the recording, and by golly i'll apologize for not understanding this revolved around actual and real discrimination.

But from what I gather gay men and women were simply told no signs unless it coincides with ST Patty's. So why not go hold hands, paint your face green and join in, hold each others hands but stick to the agenda?



One day long ago I realized the world doesn't revolve around me.......try thinking on that sometime

ChaosEpsilon
reply to post by buster2010

 

www.behaviorismandmentalhealth.com...
I'm sure there are a lot of these. I'm not giving you hard proof because obviously it doesn't exist. You could say that psychopathy isn't a mental illness because there's no concrete evidence of it.

What the article is saying is that essentially homosexuality was professionally labeled as a mental illness, then a bunch of mentally ill people came and said they weren't mentally ill, so the APA removed it because they were being loud.

What’s noteworthy about this is that the removal of homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses was not triggered by some scientific breakthrough. There was no new fact or set of facts that stimulated this major change. Rather, it was the simple reality that gay people started to kick up a fuss.

They are basing their ruling that homosexuals are mentally ill based on the works of Sigmund Freud. Sigmund Freud himself was a mentally ill person who was a cokehead as well as having a "thing" for his mommy. As you said there is no proof that homosexuality is a mental illness.

reply to post by brandiwine14

Maybe a little perspective is needed on the issue

It’s obscene, in 2014, that gay groups are forbidden from marching in St. Patrick’s Day parades in two of America’s most liberal cities. In Dublin—Dublin! I daresay a more Irish city even than Boston—gays have marched for years. As far as anyone can see, the parade flourishes, no epidemic of gayness has “afflicted” the children born in the years since inclusion, and everybody goes home happy. This isn’t just a foreign phenomenon. Chicago’s St Patrick’s Day parade has managed to include gays without catastrophe ensuing as well.

Source

The article is a little opinionated, but the fact remains that in Dublin and Chicago gays are allowed to take part. That kinda says something, doesn't it......

As for the world not revolving around us, honey we are well aware of that one.

reply to post by brandiwine14


Maybe if it wasn't such a big deal for two men to walk hand in hand in the parade people wouldn't feel the need to wear pride shirts.

So let's gather a little perspective, shall we? I see both sides, yet don't understand WHY SOME in the Gay community feel the need to flaunt their sexuality in a venue that is not about them....Let's think about this, I have children and would never DREAM of taking them to see any type of heterosexual "kink" parade, so WHY would I let them see gays flaunting sexuality in any type of family holiday parade? There are always "fringes" to ANY community, gay/straight/religious/whatever.....there is a time and place for everything and a St. Patricks Day parade is NOT the time to bring such things to the front...I must say, I agree with Guinness, gays were allowed to be there and march, just NOT with signs and blatant exposure to sexual overtones....Heterosexuals have "kink" parades (S/M/D/s etc.) leather, ball gags, cuffs, floggers, chains-50 shades of Gray stuff, remember??? I'd never expect to see such a display at a St.Pattys Parade from such a community, so why does the Gay community feel the need to bring their own bedroom preferences to the table on such a day???? Before anyone says a word about which side of the coin I fall on, I was raised by gay mothers and have a 22 year old daughter who is also gay...and even THEY ALL agree this is just too much......Most gays just want to live their lives, love who they love and have the same opportunities as their neighbors, and it is happening-albeit slowly-but it IS happening.....I didn't see any S&M folks asking to display THEIR preferences about sex at a St, Pattys parade....Back up fringe gay crowd, even some of your peers are getting just a bit "put out" with the antics (straight from my mothers and daughters mouths) that you're putting out there and due to such a "fringe"....you are making your own community AS A WHOLE look a bit childish really.....Get over yourselves, EVERYONE likes to think we have a bit of awesome sexual prowess in the bedroom-even heterosexuals, and would just LOVE to compare sexual stories of conquer between the sheets, yet appropriateness has a small play in how we discuss such things....STOP thinking that just because you're doing something "different" in your bedroom, that we ALL need to know about it.....Being gay doesn't give you bragging rights, where are your manners??? (This last sentence came STRAIGHT from my mothers mouth) Get over yourselves fringe crowd, not EVERYTHING is about YOU, even heterosexual "kinks" know to keep some such things amongst themselves to a respectable degree....

So, are you saying that this



Is more overtly sexual than this?



or more insidious than this?




These pics are from the 2014 St Patty's parade in Dublin. The top one only is of a gay man and the bottom two are of other festival goers.

I'd have less problem explaining the man in the strange attire to a kid than I would cleavage girl myself.

reply to post by markosity1973


I said what I had to say...go pick a debate in the mirror, you're more likely to get better results there than here with me....My comment is clear...besides, I see no signs/banners, etc. promoting ANYTHING about what any of those people in the pics do in their bedrooms...what I DO see are costumes-clothing, kind of like when you go to an ice capades or some such thing, so now what you wear defines what you do in a bedroom? Sheesh! So hard to keep up with the ever evolving crowd these days!!
As far as cleavage girl goes, exactly how much time have you spent at a public beach???? Less attire there than in that pic, clothing does not define your sexual preference, but is that what you're trying to insinuate???? Talk about judging others yet wanting no judgement on yourself...*facepalm*........

reply to post by rockhndr


Alright then.

Is this banner offensive? This is from the Charlotte parade. It's not the gay that should be banned, it's political slogans.

reply to post by markosity1973


What part of St. Patricks Day has ANYTHING to do with sex or what goes on between 2 consenting adults in the bedroom? Trust me, I believe in what is going on in making equality in marriage and all a reality for you, for my mother, for my daughter...but St. Patricks Day is NOT the place to push such an issue....What next? Christmas elves dressed in drag riding rainbow reindeer?? LOL! I say that in jest!!!....I AM on your side with equality for all, but there is really a time and place for everything, as long as the fringe crowd keeps pushing, they need to be careful, they just might push so hard they go over the cliff as well.....Good night Markosity, my comment is just my opinion, just like your comments are your own opinions....Sweet Dreams!!

reply to post by rockhndr


How did you know my Christmas Performance this year?

i wonder how many people who partake in this parade were truly representing the actual "meaning" behind it, and who were just dressed in Green promoting their Business or whatever else they represented and others as an excuse to drink in public and act obnoxious like other parades.. or flaunting their drunkness?

and no one has yet to define "Flaunting Sexuality"... if you say its "Hot Shorts and Mesh Shirts" take a look at the Women who attend so what would we flaunt? wearing shirts that say "I'm here and I'm Queer"? than don't let anyone wear a shirt that has any kind of Slogan that could be promoting anything, thus flaunting their views

Also, i hear a lot Why do Gays have to have their own parade, don't be shady, i don't believe "Straight Parades" are banned, if no one wants to organize one that is not the LGBT communities fault, in fact a lot of the parades and most of the ones i have attended welcome others to join in the community and join together as people to celebrate Pride

reply to post by rockhndr




I get where you are coming from and leave you with one final thought;

The band from Charlotte; What's the harm in them displaying a rainbow flag and displaying their pride band banner?

As you said, it's got nothing to do with what goes on in the privacy of their bedroom. It's got as much to do with it as the Police band showing their banner does. It's just saying who they are and is no different from any other banner that is held up.

Where I totally agree with you is that there should be no banners of any political sort i.e. no pro / anti gay marriage ones or on any other sort of debate that may or may not involve the gay community.

reply to post by Darth_Prime


I know, right? For example, how many people here are aware that St Patrick's day is traditionally celebrated through ABSTINENCE? That's right, folks. All the Americans drinking to St. Patty can stop pretending to care about him and what he did.

Metallicus
reply to post by buster2010

 

So now if I want to celebrate anything I can only do it with the permission of the gay community? Want to celebrate your daughters birthday? Only if you allow gay marchers to show up and blow out the candles. Having a picnic at the park? Call some gay marchers to dance around your cooler.

It's getting ridiculous and in your face which is my original point.

edit on 2014/3/17 by Metallicus because: eta

The only reason you think it is in your face is because you don't want them to exist. All the things you mentioned are not public events like the parade the homophobes are having are they? They just want to march in the parade and people like you get their knickers in a bunch over it. The city should take their ability to have a parade away from them seeing how they don't want to treat everyone equally like it says in the Constitution.

Christian Voice
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Look, all I'm saying is why does any form of sexuality have to be involved in these types of things. Gay pride parades are about gay pride, so I get that, gay people displaying their sexuality is an expected behavior at that type of parade.

Excuse me, but it's barely been a decade since homosexuality in the U.S. was illegal.

Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of sodomy laws in Bowers v. Hardwick in 1986. Only in 2003 did the Supreme Court reverse that decision with Lawrence v. Texas, invalidating sodomy laws in 14 states (Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, and Virginia).

Gay pride parades were and are about equal rights and acceptance. It wasn't very long ago that they didn't have equal rights.

Similar allusions can be drawn to the Civil Rights movement. If you saw a million African-Americans marching in a parade, would you cry out about them flaunting dark skin?