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Over 123% of Sevastopol residents vote to join Russia!

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posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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how is the reliability of the Kiev Post?

Ukrainian government refuses to remove troops from Crimea, prepares for war


In the wake of a March 16 referendum in which Crimeans voted to join the Russian Federation, Ukrainian leaders refused to cede any part of the peninsula, calling on their troops to prepare for war.

“Crimea was, is, and will be our territory,” said Defense Minister Ihor Tenyukh in a statement delivered at the Ukrainian Crisis Media Center on March 17.

Former heavyweight boxing champion and leader of the Ukrainian Democratic Alliance for Reform Vitali Klitschko announced that Ukrainian troops would remain at their bases, even after March 21, the end of a peace treaty signed by the interior ministries of Ukraine and Russia.

In accordance with the March 16 peace treaty, the Russian Interior Ministry promised to allow Ukrainian soldiers to pass freely into and out of their bases, which Russian troops had surrounded for more than two weeks. Tenyukh said that the Russian military had thus far respected the terms of the treaty.

Although tensions have de-escalated around military bases in Crimea since the signing of the treaty, neither side is prepared to back down. The Russian government expects that Ukrainian troops will surrender their military bases before the conclusion of the treaty. The Ukrainian government has said that it will not withdraw forces from Crimea, using the peace as an opportunity to replenish supplies for Ukrainian troops stationed on Crimean bases.

When asked whether Ukrainian troops would fight to defend Crimea, Tenyukh replied tersely, “The armed forces will execute their tasks, ” later adding, “Ukrainian forces will stay [in Crimea] until all their tasks have been completed.”




Ambassador recalled from Moscow -

In another indication of deteriorating relations between Ukraine and Russia, Klitschko announced that Volodymyr Yelchenko, the Ukrainian ambassador to Russia, would be recalled from Moscow for consultations with the newly formed government in Kyiv.




posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by shappy
 


Yeah I have moved on past the budapest referendum I was wrong and admitted it, what about the violation of international law and personal signed treaties RUSSIA had with NATO and UKRAINE? What about those?



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:02 PM
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Darolla
reply to post by shappy
 


Yeah I have moved on past the budapest referendum I was wrong and admitted it, what about the violation of international law and personal signed treaties RUSSIA had with NATO and UKRAINE? What about those?


I really should google all the international laws the US and UK violated, I am sure the UN has records of resolutions they also violated.


Can you link me the specific treaties RUSSIA has with NATO and UKRAINE as you put it? I would like to read them. Since I already shot that last treaty out of the water, I don't mind shooting a few more down. I'm feeling lucky this evening.


edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:05 PM
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From the many celebrations I've seen across Crimea, the people seem very happy with the vote, even if the Western news announcers aren't, lol.

Most of the voting took place in completely transparent boxes, and were publicly hand counted by locals of each community, there are literally dozens of videos across the internet showing these as they happened yesterday.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by shappy
 


I understand that the U.S. and U.K are very dirty when it comes to such things, but there are many other NATO countries that are clean enough to throw the first stone.

The question is, do you think Russia deserves to be punished for directly interfering and land grabbing like the nazi's did with the Sudetenland.

I believe the U.S. needs to stay out of this, but NATO must respond.

The U.S and U.K may have been forceful in some regions, but we certainly weren't annexing anything.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:06 PM
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Xcathdra

tencap77
it begs the question, why even keep NATO?


Enemy at the gates: Russia rolls in the tanks, armored personnel carriers

Russia Is Preparing to Invade East Ukraine, Estonia Says

Former Soviet borders are being reconsidered - Pravda

Putin questioned the legality of the withdrawal of Ukraine from the USSR, the former head of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people

You tell me.


I saw this tank in Ukraine

upload.wikimedia.org...


I see good reason to send NATO in right there, it needs a good polishing.
edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:07 PM
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Darolla
reply to post by shappy
 


Yeah I have moved on past the budapest referendum I was wrong and admitted it, what about the violation of international law and personal signed treaties RUSSIA had with NATO and UKRAINE? What about those?


Russia was actually offered a seat in NATO. They rejected it when they did not get special status for certain areas.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:08 PM
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Xcathdra

Darolla
reply to post by shappy
 


Yeah I have moved on past the budapest referendum I was wrong and admitted it, what about the violation of international law and personal signed treaties RUSSIA had with NATO and UKRAINE? What about those?


Russia was actually offered a seat in NATO. They rejected it when they did not get special status for certain areas.


And thus, Ukraine are NOT a member of NATO and not privy to their protection.

I almost once won the lottery, but I declined to enter.
edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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shappy

Xcathdra

Darolla
reply to post by shappy
 


Yeah I have moved on past the budapest referendum I was wrong and admitted it, what about the violation of international law and personal signed treaties RUSSIA had with NATO and UKRAINE? What about those?


Russia was actually offered a seat in NATO. They rejected it when they did not get special status for certain areas.


And thus, Ukraine are NOT a member of NATO and not privy to their protection.

Chapter VII Article 51 of the UN charter states otherwise.

Ukraine can ask for assistance in helping repel an armed attack on their territory. That occurred when Russian sent their forces into Crimea. It also occurred when Russian forces moved outside of Crimea, taking the gas plant.

While NATO is under no obligation to become involved, it does not Prevent NATO / NATO countries from becoming involved at the request of Ukraine.

Since the Crimean vote is not recognized, its not something Russia can use in their defense / justification.
edit on 17-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:11 PM
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i though we didn't use bloggers as a reference here at ats
for obvious reasons

i also understand the 80,000- russian troops reported sent towards ukraine turned out to be 80 troops in reality
edit on Monpm3b20143America/Chicago46 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:12 PM
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Xcathdra

shappy

Xcathdra

Darolla
reply to post by shappy
 


Yeah I have moved on past the budapest referendum I was wrong and admitted it, what about the violation of international law and personal signed treaties RUSSIA had with NATO and UKRAINE? What about those?


Russia was actually offered a seat in NATO. They rejected it when they did not get special status for certain areas.


And thus, Ukraine are NOT a member of NATO and not privy to their protection.

Chapter VII Article 51 of the UN charter states otherwise.

Ukraine can ask for assistance in helping repel an armed attack on their territory. That occurred when Russian sent their forces in.

While NATO is under no obligation to become involved, it does not Prevent NATO / NATO countries from becoming involved at the request of Ukraine.


And so far... NATO *crickets* we all know why. It will turn messy FAST if NATO get involved, the people running NATO are not stupid.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by shappy
 


Ill be glad to

Russia is a part of OSCE -

The first part of the wiki has a particularly juicy part about past russian intention through this organization.

"The Organization has its roots in the 1973 Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe (CSCE). Talks had been mooted about a European security grouping since the 1950s but the Cold War prevented any substantial progress until the talks at Dipoli in Helsinki began in November 1972. These talks were held at the suggestion of the Soviet Union which wished to use the talks to maintain its control over the communist countries in Eastern Europe, and President of Finland Urho Kekkonen hosted them in order to bolster his policy of neutrality. Western Europe, however, saw these talks as a way to reduce the tension in the region, furthering economic cooperation and obtaining humanitarian improvements for the populations of the Communist bloc."

en.wikipedia.org...

Russia is also part of the UN - and is bound by its charter

www.un.org...

Russia also signed a treaty with Ukraine -

www.jstor.org...

Black sea fleet agreement between ukraine and russia -

ericposner.com...



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:14 PM
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Danbones
i though we didn't use bloggers as a reference here at ats
for obvious reasons


Normally I would agree with you. however in this case his information is based off the reporting by Crimean officials and the election results.

Also I thought they were Crimean self defense forces... Did Putin change that again?
edit on 17-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:14 PM
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Darolla
reply to post by shappy
 


Ill be glad to

Russia is a part of OSCE -

The first part of the wiki has a particularly juicy part about past russian intention through this organization.

"The Organization has its roots in the 1973 Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe (CSCE). Talks had been mooted about a European security grouping since the 1950s but the Cold War prevented any substantial progress until the talks at Dipoli in Helsinki began in November 1972. These talks were held at the suggestion of the Soviet Union which wished to use the talks to maintain its control over the communist countries in Eastern Europe, and President of Finland Urho Kekkonen hosted them in order to bolster his policy of neutrality. Western Europe, however, saw these talks as a way to reduce the tension in the region, furthering economic cooperation and obtaining humanitarian improvements for the populations of the Communist bloc."

en.wikipedia.org...

Russia is also part of the UN - and is bound by its charter

www.un.org...

Russia also signed a treaty with Ukraine -

www.jstor.org...

Black sea fleet agreement between ukraine and russia -

ericposner.com...



Thanks for the links, I will take a look.

Here is an interesting thing to consider. Since the Soviet Union is no more, are any of it's agreements transferred over to the Russian Federation? What is the situation with that scenario
I also heard Russia delayed / stalled / left Nuclear arms reduction talks recently over this.

Soviet Union became Commonwealth of Independent States became the Russian Federation (aka Russian Commonwealth).

What happens to the old agreements with old references to old "empires"

edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by shappy
 


It appears actually that Russia's relationship with the organization soured over their opinion on the events in Chechnya, and left the organization calling it a tool for western power in 1994.

We all know what happened in Chechnya a few years later.

The other agreements however were made with the Russian Commonwealth.
edit on 17-3-2014 by Darolla because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:23 PM
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EU threatens Russia's isolation / ЄС погрожує Росії ізоляцією


The European Union calls on Russia to renounce the annexation of the Crimea and hopes that the events in Ukraine can "turn back".

This is stated in the conclusions of the EU Council, approved after a meeting of EU Foreign Affairs, informs Interfax-Ukraine.

"The Council calls on the Russian Federation not to take steps with the annexation of the Crimea, violating international law," said the conclusions.

"There is still time to turn back the current events. There are possibilities to avoid unwinding the negative spiral. The EU is ready for a constructive dialogue with all the parties, "said the conclusions.

The EU also insists that "still committed to the goals of developing relations between the EU and Russia, based on mutual interest and respect international law."

The EU claims that "any further RUSSIAN steps to destabilize the situation in Ukraine may lead to additional and far-reaching consequences for a wide range of economic relations between the European Union and its Member States on the one hand, and the Russian Federation on the other side."

"The European Union calls on Russia to return to the development of a strategic partnership with the EU instead of self-isolation of diplomatic and economic," said the conclusions.

In addition, the EU Council spoke about the existence of "the urgent need in the international presence on the ground throughout Ukraine, including Crimea."

"The Council supports the speedy deployment of a special monitoring mission of the OSCE in Ukraine,-noted in the findings.

Separately in the conclusions set forth the position of the EU on non-recognition of the referendum in Crimea and condemnation "of the negative development of events, which violate the sovereignty of Ukraine."

"The Council firmly condemns the illegal referendum in Crimea on March 16, on the accession of the Russian Federation, which clearly violates the Ukrainian Constitution. The EU does not recognize the illegal referendum and its results, "said the conclusions.


Click link for remainder of article. The above is translated using Bing. If any native speakers see an error please note it.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:28 PM
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MessageforAll
Oh nooo!


My thought's exactly


Rigged elections!


Yeah, imagine that.


Seriously though


You disagree with it being rigged?


Russia does everything just more blatant.


So you agree, it was rigged.




posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:29 PM
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Xcathdra

tencap77
it begs the question, why even keep NATO?


Enemy at the gates: Russia rolls in the tanks, armored personnel carriers

Russia Is Preparing to Invade East Ukraine, Estonia Says

Former Soviet borders are being reconsidered - Pravda

Putin questioned the legality of the withdrawal of Ukraine from the USSR, the former head of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people

You tell me.


I just did. Spending 1 red cent on the "defence" of Europe is NOT WORTH it. he world is different now. Sending our troops to places like Iraq, A-stan, or Europe is POINTLESS. The Europeans have this thing called the EU. That stands for "European Union" right? What part of the USA is in Europe? NONE. Let them take care of they're own problems. We have enough of our own. Plus we have excellent NUKES and that's what we really should be importing to Europe !



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by tencap77
 


Fair and valid points.

Let me ask though - What did it cost us when we tried to remain out of World War I and World War II?
What did it cost the Europeans?
The civilians in all countries?

While I agree war is not the answer, appeasement is not either. As a matter of fact appeasement is what led us into the world wars in the first place.

Had it not been for the grace of God and the British spirit to push on there is no telling what the world might look like had they given up / given in. I see comments about Crimea along the lines of why bother, its a small area, etc. Granted, however, that's what was stated when discussing the Sudentland.

While we have argued back and forth over the invocation of Hitler and Nazi Germany, one things, at least for me, remains the same.

Better to be involved from the start in hopes of knocking something down rather than hide behind 2 oceans in hopes it wont reach our shore and wont affect us.

As for the EU comments - I would point out that Merkel has actually taken the lead on the issues with Russia with regards to the EU position.
edit on 17-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



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