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Is anyone not signing up for Obamacare out of principal?

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posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:53 PM
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Ok. Though I have my own ideas about our government, etc I am a "law abiding citizen". Self employed, meticulous about my record keeping. File/pay my taxes on time. I don't even have a speeding ticket on my record. I have car insurance, home insurance, health insurance for my kids. But I am so sick and tired of being forced to do things I do not want to do or suffer being fined. They freaking fine you for everything now. I live in Colorado and we as a state are under constant surveillance it seems All. The. Time. Cameras are EVERYWHERE. (Different thread I'm sure) but as I'm getting older and wiser, I've decided two things this year. Obamacare can kiss my
and I'm not vaccinating my 5 month old child (another separate thread lol) And everyone I know is having a cow over the two. "You better sign up or they will fine you you! Or you could go to jail!!!" Wtf man? If I don't want insurance, I'm not going to sign up for it. I had insurance for the past 10 years and have still paid out the
for services they decide not to cover. Or they charge a ridiculous amount because you do have insurance. I can walk into my doctors office with an issue and get in and out and a prescription filled for under $100. Luckily my dr is awesome and they don't give me flack. But come on. As humans in general, we have so many things to worry about in this world. How I handle my health shouldn't be a hot topic.
And yes, I know that if something catastrophic happens, I will probably end up bankrupt. But I try to think positively




posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by PassedKarma
 


Currently the "fine"(read tax) charged for not signing up is must less than what you'll pay for healthcare. I know many people in my day to day life that are not signing up because they can't afford it, and the extra tax on them is going to make them even less likely to afford it in the future.

I never understood the logic "We want to help people who can't afford healthcare by taxing them if they don't buy healthcare"


edit on 3/17/2014 by PsychoEmperor because: fix typo



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by PassedKarma
 


It dont have to be catastrophic a simple snake or spider bite could wind up costing you alot of money. If your allining yourself with the repubs out of spite for the liberals thats stupid. You should be independent and do whats best for you and your family and the first thing is to investigate the plans and options for you instead of believing propaganda given by opposing sides of this.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by PassedKarma
 


Whether unintended or by design, it criminalizes law abiding citizens for not registering somewhere for something and sets a dangerous precedent if allowed to go unchallenged.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by PassedKarma
 

At the going rate of Obama Care. I could see a doctor once a week and pay for my med's and still have enough money in my pocket. With health care under Obama it would be costing me a lot more. At a average of $900 per month and a deductible of $8700, for 2 Adults and 2 kids WTF, I'm loosing money.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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I refuse to sign up for it. Screw corporate welfare.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:27 PM
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There are a lot of lies about Obamacare right now.

I've been very much opposed to it, but it has turned out to be really a good thing.

I have what I call a "fringe" income. Enough money to pay the bills and have a couple luxuries like a nice phone and internet and netflix (but not cable), but too much to be eligible for most benefits.

Which is fine, I'm an apprentice in my trade, I shouldn't be rich.

I signed up on my state's exchange website a little over a month ago. It was annoying, there were some issues, but I still did it all in one evening without ever leaving my house or even placing a single phonecall. I qualified for what in my state is called "MinnesotaCare", which is essentially expanded Medicaid. I pay a small premium, $50/month, and in return get what is actually really good insurance. My deductibles are so low I could pay most of them in change. Like, 3 dollar office visits, 3 dollar prescriptions, 25 dollar glasses.

I have taken advantage of the vision care already, and plan to shortly resume coverage for ADHD. I took myself off medication in my junior year of high school in order to bring my social life into balance with my academic life, but I feel at this time that my organization and motivation levels could do with a boost.

I'm not a pro-Obama guy by any means. I'm definitely not a pro-government guy.
But people do need medical coverage.
People who say, I don't "want" medical coverage, well that's great, but if you're in an accident, do you really think they're gonna say "Oh, he didn't want medical care, put him out back and we'll deal with it when he's dead"?

No, of course not. They're going to treat you, and there's going to be a bill for someone to pay.

If everyone has medical insurance, it'll essentially be the same as universal health coverage like some countries have. Only, instead of the government controlling all of it, at least it'll somewhat route through private companies, as a nod to capitalism.

We'll see how it goes long term, but as of now, myself and a bunch of other people I know, have coverage that we did not have before.

Sorry if this is long winded but it's St Patty's day and I'm on my 4th beer

edit on 17-3-2014 by TheBlackTiger because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by PassedKarma
 


Lower income people who's job doesn't offer insurance are foolish if they don't sign up. Most the government will be paying the whole bill....at least they pay for all mine.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by PassedKarma
 


Full stomach, empty soul

This country is all about the bottom line. Profit. If you are not making profit or providing profit to others, you might be a useless eater.

In terms of health care, it's really hard to get sufficient profit growth from that sector. It's really up to everyone to do their part. Pay your money and stay healthy. The job creators will rebuild this bastion of freedom from the wreckage of socialism.

For the others who can't stay healthy, voluntary death is an emerging research area for the insurance industry. It will be a boon for cost control.

Keep American freedom and industry strong! Take yourself out at the first sign of trouble.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by TheBlackTiger
 


Thank you for the enlightenment. That's really great

Do you think it's different from state to state? I have an array of friends from super wealthy to living off the govt and each person has expressed how insanely expensive it was/is for them to sign up.
I've always had my kids on Cigna. Back before the health care debates, it was easy and very affordable to put them on being self employed. I pay next to nothing and the deductibles are reasonable. It was made specifically for kids. But it was going to be outrageous for me! So I've always been thankful they are covered.
I'm sure I'll stop being a stubborn child and sign up someday. Until then.....



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 05:02 PM
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PassedKarma
reply to post by TheBlackTiger
 


Thank you for the enlightenment. That's really great

Do you think it's different from state to state? I have an array of friends from super wealthy to living off the govt and each person has expressed how insanely expensive it was/is for them to sign up.
I've always had my kids on Cigna. Back before the health care debates, it was easy and very affordable to put them on being self employed. I pay next to nothing and the deductibles are reasonable. It was made specifically for kids. But it was going to be outrageous for me! So I've always been thankful they are covered.
I'm sure I'll stop being a stubborn child and sign up someday. Until then.....


It's definitely different state-to-state!

Minnesota is known as a particularly blue state, and our government benefits and safety nets have always been very human-oriented. (Is it kosher to say on ATS that a place being left-winged could be good??), however I had a close friend in a rather more conservative neighboring state who was struggling a year or 2 ago because of a medical issue that was just outside her paycheck-to-paycheck budget, and there was no help to be had whatsoever.

It seems to me that Obamacare is basically saying "Healthcare is expensive, but everyone should have it. Pay what you can for now, and later if your income goes up, maybe you can afford to help people like you used to get help."

Now, maybe that's SOCIALIST and therefore EVIL, but I have a hard time disagreeing with it.

I think the main problem is that people with good jobs and good income remember a time when there was no help for them, and the fact that they made it is proof to them that success is there if you just try hard enough.

Of course they're ignoring the fact of what would have happened to them if something went wrong...

I feel like my thoughts are getting really scattered, it's like 6 beers now.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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i don't need healthcare. i have medkit with suture kit inside, i know how to set bones, administer cpr, stitch. knowhow might be more fun than a piece of paper leading me around by the short and curlies



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 05:17 PM
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rockoperawriter
i don't need healthcare. i have medkit with suture kit inside, i know how to set bones, administer cpr, stitch. knowhow might be more fun than a piece of paper leading me around by the short and curlies


Now let's say you're heading home from dinner out with your friend, and a drunk driver t-bones your vehicle and it rolls into a ditch. You're unconscious with internal bleeding.

Which of your skills will you use?
Or do you want the paramedics to wait on you until you wake up to ask if you'd like to sign up for health insurance?

What you said makes sense, but only to a point. I get injuries often enough at work but don't go in for them. I got health insurance as catastrophic protection as well as protection from recurring conditions, such as astigmatism leading to poor vision.

Your point is similar to me saying, because I work in a construction field and know how to build and repair a house, home insurance is a conspiratorial rip-off.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 05:34 PM
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I encourage readers to check it out themselves. Ninety percent of what these guys post is disinformation someone else said and they are repeating. Never thought i would refer to the vast majority of posters on ATS as disinformation agents and fear mongers .

Deny Ignorance

Stop exagerating your cost and complaining had you voted for an independent you wouldn't be in this mess. Most here wasted their votes on the status quo and now they're complaining because they got what they voted for.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by The only 1 who knows the
 


Wow you must be loaded the maximum premium at 94000 net income (thats after taxes + 401k and stock purchase programs) your max is 746 dollars a month for a 4 person household. So you figure your grossing over 130k or so and your complaining? And you can use most of it as a write off.

BTW thats the above plan is the thousand dollar deductible for off network and hospital. copay for normal doctors visits
edit on 17-3-2014 by Shaiker because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 09:29 PM
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My reasons for not "signing up" are out of principle. The principles I have found not to "sign up" are;

1. Healthcare, before its soon to be expansion, is the number three killer of Americans.

2. I have rarely agreed with the practice of what is known as "health care" in this country. And know it to be my right to not support that which I do not agree with.

3. I do not believe it lawful to repeatedly change a law without that bill going through the entire process of forming a law, I.e. senate, congress, president.

4. If force has to be used in order to persuade a person, I.e. get this or we will fine you. It is likely not a good deal.

5. I don't use items that takes millions upon millions of dollars if not billions to "roll-out", whilst not working.

6. If there is no refund for aforementioned "roll-out", it is likely just a scam for the government to keep spending more money to continually prop up our failing economic policies which requires that more debt be created each year in excess to the year before. That is debt slavery and my morals do not allow me to participate in any way, nor any form, as I find slavery to be abhorrent.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by PassedKarma
 


No one on welfare has to pay for Obama care. That's really bad disinformation....



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 10:07 PM
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Yes, I refuse to sign up on principal and logic. I am a severe chronic pain sufferer. My total layout for health care is right around $5,000/year. That includes prescriptions and lab tests. I also don't have room to spend another $400 a month for something that will not do anything for me. Due to income, etc. to get a decent plan they have my deductible anywhere from $10,000 - $13,500.

So, I would never reach my deductible. Therefore, I am paying $400 a month for nothing. My financial situation with bills, etc. leaves me tight every month. I have no room to throw away $400 a month for nothing. The whole program was based on flat out lying to the American people. The dishonesty is enough for me. This was supposed to LOWER costs at $2,500 a year remember that? The cost of insurance has skyrocketed for most people to being priced out of their range. We were supposed to keep our doctor and insurance. Now, less people have insurance. I have very critical doctors. I had 23 major surgeries. Finding a good pain management doctor is hard enough, and I know because I had 4 pain management doctor's die during the last 23 years on chronic pain medication. So, even with Obamacare, I would lose the doctors that know my case, have been treating me for a very long time. And if you know anything about surgeon's, it is very difficult if not impossible to get another surgeon to do surgery on something that has already been cut on by another surgeon.

So, I can't just find some Obamacare doctor they approve because of whatever insane metric they are using to select doctors. Most of them are not the best doctors either. I made deals with all of my doctors when Obamacare was just trying to be passed. I got agreements with all of them that they will treat me no matter what happens with Obamacare for cash. Even if we need to do it under the table. I don't care about being a part of this disaster that has left cancer paitents without their doctor, without coverage for the medicine they needed and were taking, and on and on ad nauseum. They don't subsidize you by giving you money for your premiums. They give you tax credits. So, if you don't make enough to write off the subsidies on your tax return, then your just stuck with the full bill. This is not FREEDOM. This is not AMERICA. This is a Socialist Wet Dream that can't work and they already know it. That is why Obama keeps illegaly pushing back effective dates beyond the 2014 and 2016 elections. They know it is going down and I will not be a party to something I feel is in direct violation of the Constitution. Sorry about that to the liberal socialist wet dream, but that is just the way I see it.

ETA: This is not Venezuela either. Our government is not supposed to be nationalizing private businesses. They know Obamacare is going to fail, and it was by design. They really want the Single Payer System, or total government control. That is the next step when they say that is the only way it will work. I do not need the government determining what care I need. They already interfere enough with the DEA trying to scare doctors from prescribing. Fortunately, my doctor beat them in court. They don't mess with him any longer. Sure, there are tons of bad docs prescribing narcotics to people that don't need them. It really causes people like me a lot of grief. But I have the medical records and history that I have no problems with it

Here is something that happened. The DEA decided that the Pain Management Doctors could no longer give 40mg methadone tablets to pain patients. They could only be used in clinics for addiction. So, the doc just writes 4 10mg tabs taken x amount of times a day. Same exact thing. Government has proven over and over they are incapable of managing anything save war.


edit on 17/3/14 by spirit_horse because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by spirit_horse
 


90 percent of what you said is disinformation you read off the internet. Your deductible is around 1000 on the silver plan. That deductible doesn't penalize normal doctors visits ect. Xrays, cat scans, and similar procedures go against your deductible. Dependent upon your income you could save a substantial amount of money from the 5000 you put toward your health each year.


I swear to you if you check it out you will not be disappointed.


BTW: this program did nothing more than what we had before as far as socialized medicine. The unpaid bills by the underprivileged was still picked up by the taxpayers. This plan only structuralizes it to try and get some kind of control on sky rocketing health care cost.

BTW this is no endorcement of Obama but it is an endorcement of a healthcare system where the insurance companies are not able to rip you off by dumping you or not offering you coverage and Where hospitals are not trying to rip you off with spontaneous charges.


edit on 17-3-2014 by Shaiker because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 10:57 PM
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I'm not scared. My bones are protesting this bill. They can't easily get rid of BONES. Skin flesh blood and brains are easily duped into it but my BONES are protesting this bill until they perish.



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