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A Conversation About Abortion you need to read!

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posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Woah, and when did a few cell lifeform become a human?
When it was a sperm?
When it was an egg?


Well take a look at some of these abortions you so believe are fine and equate that with a few cell forms ok?




Originally posted by devilwasp
If so then why are the pro lifers not banning masterbation because frankly millions die there, isnt that mass murder?



Yeah and selling your sperm to a sperm clinic would be slavery also wouldn't it? Just imagine all the money that slipped through all of our hands over the years.


Look you can justify your position all you want, I don't really care anymore as you see a fetus as a parasite........Your lost...

If you could just see the young child that I saw yesterday, to hold her, to know that she is Alive! Although the 'doctors' said she would never see 1 year, she is now 4 years old and has loving parents that have accepted the definite burden of this child instead of killing it for convenience.


About religion? You bet .....




posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Well take a look at some of these abortions you so believe are fine and equate that with a few cell forms ok?

I have, and there is a stage I believe they become a human lifeform.





Yeah and selling your sperm to a sperm clinic would be slavery also wouldn't it? Just imagine all the money that slipped through all of our hands over the years.


Yeah it would.


Look you can justify your position all you want, I don't really care anymore as you see a fetus as a parasite........Your lost...

You cared ?


If you could just see the young child that I saw yesterday, to hold her, to know that she is Alive! Although the 'doctors' said she would never see 1 year, she is now 4 years old and has loving parents that have accepted the definite burden of this child instead of killing it for convenience.

Doctors make bad calls, also its not about convenience.
Its about thinking that she might not make it , why bring a child into the world knowing he/she would lead a short life of pain, suffering and agony?



About religion? You bet .....


Religion and medicine dont get along.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Doctors make bad calls, also its not about convenience.
Its about thinking that she might not make it , why bring a child into the world knowing he/she would lead a short life of pain, suffering and agony?


Thats just it, the docs said the child would not feel and would just suffer.

I saw the child was happy to have someone hold her, the breeze of the afternoon air on her cheeks, the sounds around her.

The docs say she can not see, does not know....

My wife and this little girl got along great, she smiled in her own way, yeah docs can be wrong, but this child would have never had life if killed and not given the chance...and that pro-abortion folks have no serious ground to stand on..



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Thats just it, the docs said the child would not feel and would just suffer.

Yeah they said she probably wouldnt because no doctor is 100% sure of anything.


I saw the child was happy to have someone hold her, the breeze of the afternoon air on her cheeks, the sounds around her.

Ofcourse a child would be happy to have those things.
[qutoe]
The docs say she can not see, does not know....

So?
Because one doctor makes a bad call , you dump all doctors on one side?


My wife and this little girl got along great, she smiled in her own way, yeah docs can be wrong, but this child would have never had life if killed and not given the chance...and that pro-abortion folks have no serious ground to stand on..

We have a serios ground to stand on, there are just as many of that case as there are of dead babies being born and babies literally dieing days or hours after birth.

Nothing is 100% , one doctor made a mistake, mircales can and do happen.
I cant explain how or why this happened, but frankly we cant remove the right to what we want to our bodies.
Nethier of us can make that decsion, why?
Because its women's bodies, they are in charge, we are simply a factor nothing more.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Yeah they said she probably wouldnt because no doctor is 100% sure of anything.


Agreed.




Originally posted by devilwasp
Ofcourse a child would be happy to have those things.Because one doctor makes a bad call , you dump all doctors on one side?


No its that darn oath they take oath that gets me...



Originally posted by devilwasp
We have a serios ground to stand on, there are just as many of that case as there are of dead babies being born and babies literally dieing days or hours after birth.



So you will make that decision yourself then?




Originally posted by devilwasp
Nothing is 100% , one doctor made a mistake, mircales can and do happen.
I cant explain how or why this happened, but frankly we cant remove the right to what we want to our bodies.Nethier of us can make that decsion, why?Because its women's bodies, they are in charge, we are simply a factor nothing more.



Lets see "our" bodies. hmmm

What about 'its' body?


So if she decides to kill it, its ok with you? Where do you stop Devilwasp?



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
No its that darn oath they take oath that gets me...

You mean "thou shall do no harm"?
I'm sorry but sometimes the three P's need to be ignored.




So you will make that decision yourself then?

If I had to make that decsion, I'd let my wife decide(BTW I'm only 16 so I dont plan on getting married JUST yet) it is afterall her body. I'd support her 100% all the way through.





Lets see "our" bodies. hmmm

What about 'its' body?

Its "body" at most stages isnt even a body.
Besides it is after all by definition a "parasite".



So if she decides to kill it, its ok with you? Where do you stop Devilwasp?

If she wanted to then yes.
Stop with what?
Giveing rights?



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by devilwaspIf I had to make that decsion, I'd let my wife decide(BTW I'm only 16 so I dont plan on getting married JUST yet) it is afterall her body. I'd support her 100% all the way through.


I wish you the best young one, but at that age you have yet to 'see'. At your age I didnt quite have the mindset that I do now.

I would hope that you would not give her 100% support of the murder of your own child. Easy to say , not so easy to do.....



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
I wish you the best young one, but at that age you have yet to 'see'. At your age I didnt quite have the mindset that I do now.

Yes age does change one's self doesnt it?


I would hope that you would not give her 100% support of the murder of your own child. Easy to say , not so easy to do.....

I would have problems with it, but if she did want that to happen I am in no position to stop her and frankly wouldnt be a good husband not to support her.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 12:37 AM
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What's deplorable is small-minded conservative nut jobs who try to brow-beat your teenagers into abstaining from sex until marriage.

What's deplorable is holier than thou jerkwads who oppose sex education in schools because you don't want anybody giving your kid ideas.

What's deplorable is refusing to take your teen son or daughter to get some birth control supplies when you find out they're sexually active because you disagree with pre-marital sex, and then forcing them to sacrifice their entire life for the sake of raising a child they didn't want and weren't prepared for.

If my parents had sat me down and had a talk with me about condoms, instead of trying to avoid the subject of sex (except when they were telling me it was a sin) they could have saved me a lot of heartache.

It's your own hangups that are causing it to be this way. Don't shield your kids... educate them.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 12:51 AM
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You have voted troydayton for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

What can I say apart from I endose the above post.

troydayton welcome to PTS !



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by xpert11
You have voted troydayton for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

What can I say apart from I endose the above post.

troydayton welcome to PTS !


Thanks much, although I must confess I have absolutely no idea what the Way Above award is...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by troydaytonWhat's deplorable is small-minded conservative nut jobs who try to brow-beat your teenagers into abstaining from sex until marriage.


NO what is deplorable is folks like you that would encourage kids to be having sex at that age when to be just plain blunt about it they shouldn't be. Sex involves a lot more than blowing a nut...




Originally posted by troydaytonWhat's deplorable is holier than thou jerkwads who oppose sex education in schools because you don't want anybody giving your kid ideas.



NO us holier than thou 'jerk wads' would not have schools teach our kids that information as that is a parents job, I do not need my 15 year old learning about the art of eating cooter taught by the damn state. Its called parenting and it should be done by parents not the state. Sex education in schools should be limited to what we all had in heath class, the reproduction portion and not the lovemaking. As it is now the divorce rate is too damn high and the last thing we need is more of them. Very few that start early will last, it comes with maturing not with locker room bragging rights.





Originally posted by troydaytonWhat's deplorable is refusing to take your teen son or daughter to get some birth control supplies when you find out they're sexually active because you disagree with pre-marital sex, and then forcing them to sacrifice their entire life for the sake of raising a child they didn't want and weren't prepared for.



Well if they are living under my roof then they will abide by my rules. PERIOD. Not some Tulip walking nut case that wants to encourage this type of behavior. If they choose to play the game anyway then they shall live with the consequences and not murder the innocent because of the lapse of judgment. Maybe if you parents would have taught you to keep your snake in your pants, you would not have had any heartache and then when you met the future Mrs, it would have meant more.

Look I am no angel in this manner, but I did take precautions when I was younger and that is because I knew the risks.

I would hope that my children will refrain from being of this world and avoid the heartache that I also had because of that mindless appendage. It was NOT worth it in the end....



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 02:15 AM
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Edsinger what plant are you on? The reason there is sex ed in schools is because of people like you. Nothing has changed the only differnce from 100 years ago is that today people dont have to hide from society and people dont get forced into marriages to just keep society happy.

Would you rather teens had sex in hiding just to keep you happy ?
On plant reality teens will have sex even if there parents forbid it.
Then again you would rather see backyard abortions rather then have embros aborted safely.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by xpert11
Edsinger what plant are you on? The reason there is sex ed in schools is because of people like you. Nothing has changed the only differnce from 100 years ago is that today people dont have to hide from society and people dont get forced into marriages to just keep society happy.



First, I am on planet Earth. No sex education is to show the student how the reproduction portions and parts work. Not how to have sex in the back on cars on dates when one is 16. This is simple, there will always be those that experiment and go against the advice of parent due to peer pressure or what not. Hiding from society is not the reason, its that young kids should be worried about the education and their future not getting laid and bragging. If you take a survey, just how many of the folks married the first piece of ass they had? I didn't and I bet the statistics would be very small.

So what you are saying is that you 'approve' of premarital sex and approve of teens being sexually active.

I do not, I think it could cause them to get STD's and have these unwanted pregnancies that some will end up killing the child. Its about responsibility, we should be teaching them that it is not worth it to 'play' around.

I am not against telling them about sex at all, just leave the parenting to parents. But that again raises its own problems as lots of parent want the state to raise their children.

We just have fundamental differences of opinion as mine is based on scripture and yours is based on "being of this world".




Originally posted by xpert11Would you rather teens had sex in hiding just to keep you happy ? On plant reality teens will have sex even if there parents forbid it.Then again you would rather see backyard abortions rather then have embros aborted safely.



What you would have me approve of my 15 year old daughter having sex on the weekend? Hell NO. If we as parent forbid it and we are consistent about the "results" of going against our wishes, then that child will think twice about doing it. It about the parenting skills and how we raise our children.

It doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes a parent willing to raise the child by example and with discipline.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
I would hope that my children will refrain from being of this world and avoid the heartache that I also had because of that mindless appendage. It was NOT worth it in the end....


REAL Christian Men Castrate THEMSELVES!


For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. (Matthew 19:11-12 KJV)


Go nuts good Christian! (same day shipping)

But leave other people's kids, public schools and the US legislature out of it for a change, huh?

PS - Please don't really castrate your kids.
Not that I would ever impose on your rights as a Christian parent to really screw up your kids (in the head), but some things just aren't freedom of religion. They're criminally insane.

[edit on 12-6-2005 by RANT]



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 07:33 PM
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RANT with Dean there I would just say........ah nevermind.


As for the castration, did you read it in context?


Rant I do not want my views forced upon your children no more than I want yours on mine.

If you want your 15 year old daughter having sex, by all means, tell her its fine. Honey if it feels good "Do It". I will try to teach my kids that they need to wait, they dont need to F&**^, they need to make love to the one that they LOVE, not Mr. or Mrs. "right now".


Its a free country and I have the right to not teach my children that Soddom and Gomora where alright.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:18 PM
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Funny...when I had to take sex ed, I didn't get the impression that my teacher was encouraging us all to have sex. In fact, teenagers were never having sex before sex ed was introduced...noooo never, not the Christian teenagers anyway


Why do you think these programs were implemented in the first place Ed? It was an existing problem and it was obvious that the parents were not discussing sex at all with their teenagers...pretending like it simply did not exist.

You offer no solutions to the problem just arrogant nonsense. In your world people deserve STDs and pregnancy for engaging in sex, case closed! On your planet, women who have abortions are murderers and should be punished accordingly. Your reasoning...the Bible and not reality. Any reasoning that actually makes sense to a rational human being is dismissed because of your particular faith in which you expect everyone else to follow.

If you want to teach abstinence, you are a little late since sex ed. covers that a great deal. It teaches that there are consequences to having sex...exactly what part of that do you not understand? It's teaching people to be more responsible if they choose to have sex. As much as one would like to think that they have control over their son or daughter's sex life...they really don't. Teenagers often make their own choices whether or not their parents would approve.


by Edsinger I do not need my 15 year old learning about the art of eating cooter taught by the damn state.


Classy Ed!

They are teaching the "art of eating cooter" now? Or do they mention oral sex, hoping to prevent teenage pregnancies? I have a really hard time believing that teachers are presenting movies or power point presentations on the "art of eating cooter"...if they are, then I apologize and will have to agree that they are taking it a bit too far.

Besides, don't most students have to get their parents to sign some sort of permission form to even be able to take the class? They used to. I know they do in high school biology when it's time to discuss evolution. (in South Carolina anyway)


[edit on 6/12/2005 by Lecky]



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 11:15 PM
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Like I said, Health is fine, and if you think that they do not tell the kids about planned parenthood then well you are out of touch.

I don't care if your kids attend it, I just don't want mine. I want them learning about the body and its functions, but oral sex should not be one the agenda.

I know what you are going to say, oral sex isn't really sex , just as Bill Clinton said it wasn't.

Fellas out there, try that one on your wife, tell her it really wasn't sex and see how she feels.


You seem to be missing the point, I am not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, but the state is wanting to force its teachings on my child and the last time I checked, I am the SAME rank of citizen as you so why should I let my children be taught something that I think should be taught by parents? Just because some parents don't have the balls to do it is not my problem.


My Advice is be a parent to your kids so the State doesn't have to....



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
I know what you are going to say, oral sex isn't really sex , just as Bill Clinton said it wasn't.


LOL, I am a democrat but I never said Clinton was my moral guide. Although I never considered oral sex to be actual 'sex', sexual....yes.


Fellas out there, try that one on your wife, tell her it really wasn't sex and see how she feels.


I agree with you here...it's adultry, but I don't classify adultry as just sex.


You seem to be missing the point, I am not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, but the state is wanting to force its teachings on my child and the last time I checked, I am the SAME rank of citizen as you so why should I let my children be taught something that I think should be taught by parents? Just because some parents don't have the balls to do it is not my problem.


I guess I can see where you are coming from, but I see it as helping society by preventing teenage pregnancy and STDs. In a way one could say it's scaring kids to have sex, STDs and pregnancy are scary...or at least taking responsible precautions. I think most parents would rather their teens not have sex, but if they do, to at least be safe.

We see things differently here, I see it as society's problem and not just individual family issues.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger

No sex education is to show the student how the reproduction portions and parts work. Not how to have sex in the back on cars on dates when one is 16.



Your right sexual education IS to teach about reproduction , but don't you think that part of modern day reproduction is being responsible for your body? When I took sex ed we had speakers who came in and talked to us about the benifits of abstainence, abstianence was greatly encouraged, but it also helped to have the public health nurse come in and tell us horror stories about teen pregnancy, about people dying of aids and other steps you can take to prevent that if the choice is made not to abstain.

Your absolutly right it should not be the states (or provinces) responsibility to teach our children appropriat sexual veiws, but the sad truth is that many parents do not take on that responsibility themselves.


And about the veiw " You will do what I say as long as you live under my roof." , why dont you go and ask a few prostitutes how many of their parents had that kind of rule in their home growing up, and ask them how young they were when they decided that they were going to get out from under that roof?

I would also like to point out that its not only teenagers who deal with STD's and unexpected pregnancies, many adults who are educated about what to do still choose to be irrisponsible, so maybe driving home the idea of RESPONSIBLE sex while they're still listening is not such a bad idea, while still encouraging abstainace.



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