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FACEBOOK rushes to defense of dog that mauled 4-year-old boy...

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posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by StallionDuck
 


I never once used disingenuous comedic effect to make light of the topic!!!
I never assumed a single thing about anyone!!!
& didn't once say I know it all...
As you should know from quoting me, I was speaking from experience!!!

The best way is to take the Dog away from such an irresponsible owner, so the child never encounters him again!!!
The popular thing to do is seek retribution and kill the Dog!!!
But that's not necessarily for the best!
I hope I've made that much more clear now!

German Shepherds are more powerful than a Pit... From bite force to push & shove!!!
From experience they are not as Defensive over their Food/Bones etc...
When it comes to Family that is... They, like a Pit won't let a random stranger handle their property, simple!

It is always the owners fault... Whether raised to have an offensive manner with people, or perfectly trained but left unattended...
You must realise that if the person who they know is the Alpha isn't around... Then nobody can tell them a thing, it's just a basic to understand!
We can train Dogs until the Earth stops turning... But we will never remove their Instinct for Pack Mentality...
If the leader of the Pack is off somewhere else, you can guarantee everything that's been learned when it comes to defensive aggression no longer applies!!!

I'd really like to know where I "attacked" people!!!
Sincerely!!!
Maybe you could quote them moments instead... However nothing was removed as Off Topic or against T&Cs so I'd like to know what you saw that me and the Mods have missed!!!


Peace Stallion!




posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 11:24 AM
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There is a real underlying issue in all this, and many posters have nailed it already.

Some people are not fit to own a dog of any breed (or any other animal for that matter), but little to no harm would come of them owning a small breed dog, a cat, rodents, etc. The problem arises when these people obtain large breed dogs as a status symbol, something to "earn" social standing. Whether it be a Pit Bull, German Shepard, Mastiff, or even any large Lab, they are all dogs that require a very firm LEADER in their life. These dogs are very intelligent, curious, protective, territorial, and prone to cause destruction if they aren't allowed to expend their seemingly endless energy properly.

I will never defend Pits as a harmless breed, but I also refuse to identify them as a "killer" breed. Dogs as a whole are very similar, save a few undeniable breed-specific traits (which I feel are found more in herding dogs or specialized hunters like the Dachshund) I 100% guarantee that I can train you a whole squad of completely blood-thirsty Chihuahuas, Toy Poodles, Dobermans, Pit Bulls, Beagles, or any truck full of mix-n-match mutts you can drop at my door step. I can also take any group of those dogs and train you a very obedient, HAPPY, BALANCED group of animals. The responsibility would then fall in the humans lap to step up and become the LEADER required.

I was about 9 years old when my dad came home from work with news that his coworker's son was attacked by a Golden Retriever. As he was walking down the street in Daytona Beach, a very large Golden Retriever ran from what he described as " out of nowhere" and proceeded to bite the kids calf and RIPPED THE WHOLE THING OFF!

Just like we are told not to let stereotypes define our image of groups of people, we should let only our own experiences define our opinion of every facet of life (even dogs), not stereotypes or the Pick and Choose style of our MSM.

Personally I have rehabilitated 2 Pit Bulls that were rescued from a fighting operation, so I know that dogs like this aren't hopeless. However with an obvious temper issue, this animal will need a very dilligent new owner if relocation was an option...and I don't believe it will be in this case.

Parents, owners of the dog, any adults directly involved need some sort of consequence for their neglect.

TL;DR::::
Some people shouldn't own dogs.
Some people shouldn't have kids.
Simple.
edit on 3/18/2014 by ChaosComplex because: No reason



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by StallionDuck
 


I do agree with a lot of things you said though, don't get me wrong!!!
It's never 100%... That's why leaving them unattended is not to be done no matter how placid & human friendly!
I also respect what you did for Bruser... that's a beautiful thing to do, & the best thing!!!
But why didn't you have him put down despite his history of aggression?
Because you knew deep down that you can affect a Dogs temperament!

I just don't feel the Dog was angry, Defensive is completely different to Offensive!!!
This is why I have in turn been on the Defensive for the Dog, only replying to those spouting nonsense, 8 pages of people replying that the Dog needs to be put down...
But only those who were generalising & full of disdain did I reply to, for the simple fact they had a know-it-all attitude... Or they assumed things about me personally without provocation!!!


Peace Stallion!



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by StallionDuck
 


Prisoners have evil intents, the dog doesnt. You really should open your eyes sir, evil is not found in the animal kingdom. Evil as sadism, murder, entertainment in blood, suffering, and so on, is an intrinsic part of the human race. Closing your eyes will not help.

First it is a potential threat only when threatened. If the owner is careful there wont be any more problems. Second you dont #ing snatch a bone from a dog, kid or not, you would have to be very stupid to accuse the dog, which by the way was surely minding his own business before that.

But comparing the dog to prisoners? You made my day.




posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:10 PM
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chiefsmom



any large dog.


Should read any dog. Large ones are generally no more danger than smaller ones. Only due to their size, and bumping or jumping, whereas smaller ones generally are more prone to nipping and biting.

Vet's words.
I just happen to agree.


I'll give you that one for sure. Any dog is correct. Some smaller dogs are easier to handle in this case, though. Bigger dogs are very hard to counter when it comes to being attacked.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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CharlieSpeirs
reply to post by StallionDuck
 


I do agree with a lot of things you said though, don't get me wrong!!!
It's never 100%... That's why leaving them unattended is not to be done no matter how placid & human friendly!
I also respect what you did for Bruser... that's a beautiful thing to do, & the best thing!!!
But why didn't you have him put down despite his history of aggression?
Because you knew deep down that you can affect a Dogs temperament!

I just don't feel the Dog was angry, Defensive is completely different to Offensive!!!
This is why I have in turn been on the Defensive for the Dog, only replying to those spouting nonsense, 8 pages of people replying that the Dog needs to be put down...
But only those who were generalising & full of disdain did I reply to, for the simple fact they had a know-it-all attitude... Or they assumed things about me personally without provocation!!!


Peace Stallion!


Bruser wasn't put down because he wasn't an agressive dog towards anyone. He was taught to kill other dogs. We couldn't take that from him. But being around him long enough, we understood were his limits were. There was no agression towards people one bit. You couldn't rile him up. He prefered to just lay down and sleep. He was a few years old when we got him. It was more or less... Give me the dog or I'll make sure you goto prison... There were times he and my uncles dog would lock faces THROUGH a fence. I saw this dog bust through a 2x4 built wall in a barn just to get out and run down the road a quarter mile just to get back at that same dog while my uncle was fishing. This dog was a monster of a beast! Most powerful animal I've ever known. He was a pit boxer and massive. The other was a pit bull named Schnapps, who was equally powerful though bruser was just more massive.

We never put him down because we never saw a threat to others. Just other dogs. We never had to chain him up because we lived in a country with no home near for miles. This dog would litterally hunt coyotes and foxes and bring them back to the yard as tribute, is all I can guess. Though, if I ever had a fear of this dog, I would have put him down to assure nothing would have happened, but I generally knew he wouldn't be in a place where he could cause hard, and when he was, there were zero agression towards anyone. If there were, then we would have kept him locked up when others were around but seeing what he did to the side of the barn to get at another dog... I don't think it would have been possible, short of a steel cage.

In a way, I can say that it seems like some dogs have souls.. this one seemed to. Others just have cold blooded killer in their eyes. Cody, the same uncles new pitbull.. same breed as the last.. I can play with him, but if I show fear... Not pretty. I don't trust this dog as far as I can throw em. I will add that he is trained and my uncle is very strict with him. He's very obediant. Still... I don't trust him because I know what he's capable of. That dog is strong. If it attacked, it would eat me alive and no one could stop him. You just can't pull the fire out of some dogs. Some, you just can't rile them up. All dogs smell fear, and many of them will act on it because it's instinct. That's what makes them dangerous... Instinct



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by StallionDuck
 


When you say "massive," what exactly do you mean?

To most who have a lot of experience with dogs, that would equate to 150-175lbs and up. If so, that was one heck of a large boxer/pit X!!



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by _damon
 


I didn't call a dog evil or a prisoner. Reread my response. What do you do with a person when they kill another? You put them to death so they don't do it again. A dog is no different, unless you choose to lift them to a higher standard than humans would would be stupid. I used an analogy. The way you choose to take it is on you. If you take it other than how I said it, either I was not clear, which I don't believe is the case, or your blinded by your own reasonings.

A dog is not innocent. They can not reason, but they act on instinct. Innocence has nothing to do with it. It's a nature that you will seldom break from an animal if that is the way they respond.

I watched a show where this dog wisperer... and I don't claim he knows everything, but his job is to rehabilitate dogs, so be it... had the task of making a dog that attacked when someone got near his bowl.

1) the parents saw this and acted on it because of their child. The child played on, pulled on and loved on the dog and the dog did the same in return, but when his food was involved, that same dog became very angry.. deadly even.

- What's to stop that dog from seeing a plate of food and thinking... "MINE!!". Do you see where I'm going?

2) Ceasar at some point, EVEN AFTER rehabilitating the dog.. tells the parents.. "No, I'm not going to let you take this dog back. Give it up because even though he's "cured", he has it built into him and it will never be safe to assume this will always work". So the parents said goodbye and got another dog.

- He was able to keep the dog because he had a place and the means to keep it in safty. This isn't always possible. Not everyone is willing to do this. If the dog was known with this issue before it drew blood.. then the owners should have given it up. Since it did and they didn't, then like all animals that are a danger to others, they are put down. It's that simple.

If someone walks up to your park bench while you're eating lunch and takes your food, you pull out a knife and stab them, you're going to have a bad time. It's how the law works. One dog shouldn't get a pardon just because facebook people have more pity on a dog than a person. That's idiocy, if you ask me. That's just inhumane on a huge scale.

The damage is done. The dog must pay. There are no pardons when such a crime is done by people, why should it be any different for a dog...? I'm sorry, I do not equate animals with humans. There is a vast difference. I respect all life, including animals, but I will never choose an animal over a person.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:53 PM
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That's my dog, and his little buddy, Harley (RIP Harley. Killed by a cage a couple of weeks ago).
We all know dogs don't get on with cats, don't we? I just posted that pic to illustrate that with a little care and love, a dog can be pretty much all you want it to be. Whatever breed it is.

And yeah, I'm showing him off a bit, cos he's just so bloody great

edit on 36pTue, 18 Mar 2014 14:53:36 -050020142014-03-18T14:53:36-05:00kAmerica/Chicago31uk by SprocketUK because: spelling duh!



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


He was a big boy. Just around 150 or so, but solid as a granite. He was ripped. I know most pits are very stout, but he was a big version. My Bulldogge was like that too. I picked him because he was twice the size of his brothers and sisters. Biggest one of the litter.

I've seen some big pits, and I've seen some huge pits at the same age and breed. Bruser would fit in that huge bracket. He ate plenty and had the woods, the field and everything in between to play in. We fed him tablefood and my grandmother used to feed him grease with his food because she said that it would keep him healthy and his coat shiney. I figured the poor guy would have died of a heart attack, but he lived a really long time...We had him for 5 years, and he was about 2 years when we got him, until we moved back to town and some guy poisoned him because he thought he was a threat. We had him in a locked cage.. Go figure... We couldn't prove it but the symptoms were antifreeze poisoning as per the vet and that guy was the only one that complained that we had a "deadly dog" that he was afraid would get out of the cage.

Some people are D!cks... but you know..
edit on 18-3-2014 by StallionDuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 02:59 PM
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When I was 8 years old my family bought an Akita to guard the family store. I was left alone in anther room with him. I made a wuff sound and the dog pounced on me from behind and put 38 stitches on my scalp. Still have a pair of scars in the crown of my head where the canines dug in.

Turned out the dog had come from an abusive home and mistook me for the former son who used to terrorize the dog. The previous owners of course did not explain that they had physically abused the dog before.

When I found out the dog was going to be put down I asked everyone involved for the dog to not be out down. I argued why should the fit be punished when he's just the product of what we humans made him into. It's people's fault not the dog, people should take responsibility. Of course they said I was wrong and put down the dog anyway. To this day I still feel it was unjust/ unnecessary. It wasn't the dogs fault if had been turned into a psycho. Dog was terrified of women too. Gotta wonder how bad you need to abuse an Akita to make it fear a woman.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:00 PM
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SprocketUK

That's my dog, and his little buddy, Harley (RIP Harley. Killed by a cage a couple of weeks ago).
We all know dogs don't get on with cats, don't we? I just posted that pic to illustrate that with a little care and love, a dog can be pretty much all you want it to be. Whatever breed it is.

And yeah, I'm showing him off a bit, cos he's just so bloody great

edit on 36pTue, 18 Mar 2014 14:53:36 -050020142014-03-18T14:53:36-05:00kAmerica/Chicago31uk by SprocketUK because: spelling duh!


You provided this thread with what is really needed.

My sentiments exactly.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by StallionDuck
 


Do you happen to have any pics?

I have never known a pit/boxer mix to be over 100 lbs! It would be interesting to see one that was 50% larger than that.

Neither of those breed standards cross the triple digit line, so it must have been quite an interesting lineage. I am guessing it had another breed in there as well, since neither of those standards is likely to produce a canine that size.

I think that a lot of well-intentioned people are also a bit misled on the topics of aggression in dogs. There are several manifestations of it that are not necessarily connected, showing a similarity to how humans approach the same topic.

Some dogs can really be a menace, especially in the hands of incapable owners and exacerbated even further by owners who *want* their dogs to be unstable.

Some dogs, regardless of breed, need experienced owners. I would even label some breeds in this category, though there is always exceptions. It is good when the people can realize it before something bad happens. In the right hands, many of these dogs would never have any further issues. It gets complicated though when there are so many canines out there that do not have homes. It is significant. Many places have to make very hard decisions because there is only so many resources to go around (and many organizations are outright corrupt), making it a life and death situation very literally.

Even when a shelter tries to send dogs to another shelter, because of whatever reasons (space, resources, damage to the original shelter), those dogs will sometimes even be euthanized within hours of arrival. Thats from experience on that..

I think there are a lot of issues to address, and few of them have their source in the individual breed. Its simply one of the ways these issues manifest, but our society tends to focus on the symptoms more than the problem itself. Heck, its pretty much the standard for western medicine! I think the more likely result is that eventually another breed will become the "Flavor of the Month." Though, with "Pit Bulls," there is the advantage that it isnt actually a breed. Its just the "scary looking ones" for most people.

There are very harsh realities in the dog rescue world that most could never imagine without experiencing them.

If all of this effort was put into helping dogs all of the time, it might be a more solvable issue. If we would actually do that, attacks like this would have a good chance to be reduced across the board. And I think thats what everyone really wants..
edit on 18-3-2014 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


Yeah, sure thing. I'll see if I can dig up some old pics. I can't promise anything since it was back in the 80s, but I'll certainly look. I think I remember seeing some old pictures with him in it. I'll have to ask my mom, since she keeps all of those old photos and stuff like that.

I will say this though. My bulldogge's size was around 80lbs on average for that type of dog. When I let him go, he was 125lbs. He was not the norm for his breed either.
edit on 18-3-2014 by StallionDuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by StallionDuck
 


I clicked reply too soon on that last one, sorry bout that



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:27 PM
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BASSPLYR
When I was 8 years old my family bought an Akita to guard the family store. I was left alone in anther room with him. I made a wuff sound and the dog pounced on me from behind and put 38 stitches on my scalp. Still have a pair of scars in the crown of my head where the canines dug in.

Turned out the dog had come from an abusive home and mistook me for the former son who used to terrorize the dog. The previous owners of course did not explain that they had physically abused the dog before.

When I found out the dog was going to be put down I asked everyone involved for the dog to not be out down. I argued why should the fit be punished when he's just the product of what we humans made him into. It's people's fault not the dog, people should take responsibility. Of course they said I was wrong and put down the dog anyway. To this day I still feel it was unjust/ unnecessary. It wasn't the dogs fault if had been turned into a psycho. Dog was terrified of women too. Gotta wonder how bad you need to abuse an Akita to make it fear a woman.


Man...I was hoping for an uplifting story!
But good on you for understanding that dogs are more a product of their environment than anything else.


Serdgiam
reply to post by StallionDuck
 


Do you happen to have any pics?

I have never known a pit/boxer mix to be over 100 lbs! It would be interesting to see one that was 50% larger than that.

Neither of those breed standards cross the triple digit line, so it must have been quite an interesting lineage. I am guessing it had another breed in there as well, since neither of those standards is likely to produce a canine that size.


With all due respect, I'm going to guess this individual doesn't have pictures, or they are exaggerating. Even the Perro de Presa Canario has a range of about 100lbs to about 130lbs, and the ones I've experienced were built like over-sized Pit bulls.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


No worries. Din't see it.

Here is Buster - Named after the dog in the Sylvester cartoons.


He is a Hermes Old English Bulldogge. Everyone mistakened him for a pit, often. His head was probably as big as mine.. lol

He is less than a year old in this pic. He's still a big baby at this point. He caught parvo at 3 months old and survived. Vet said had he not been so big, he probably wouldn't have made it. We had to feed him an I.V. multiple times a day for 3 days since it was the weekend and we couldn't afford the extra vet care. At 125, I'd say he was about the size of Bruiser. So they may have been around the same in weight. Bruiser was a little bigger though, I think. I think it had a lot to do with him being out in the open 24/7 and the amount of food he ate every day. This dog was the arnold of pits.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by ChaosComplex
 


Ill give the benefit of the doubt on it, to an extent.


I do regret putting the actual weight qualification though.



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by ChaosComplex
 


"with all due respect", I appreciate you calling me out like that without even knowing me. I don't make a habit out of lying or stretching truth when I know it. 150 might have been a bit of a stretch but not all that far off. There are quite a few factors here. He was bred to fight and kill other dogs who were also bred for the same. WHo knows if the original owners shot him up with steroids or not. I know what I do know and that is how big he was. I made it very clear that he was no ordinary dog. I also made it very clear he was massive and solid. We also fed him all he could scarf down every day. Table food... not dogfood. He ate real meat on a daily basis, lots of rice, gravey, grease... He was a huge dog and I know for a fact, there was no dog around that could beat him in that place, in that time.

Why not at least let me try to obtain pictures (which I had just got off of facebook to ask my mom to dig and find pictures to come back to find what you said) before you make an assumed accusation... how sad and pathetic of you... Trust must go a long ways in your world...



posted on Mar, 18 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


Well, the weight does bring it back into perspective a bit. I'll stand by him being no ordinary size but IF I'm not mistaken, he was a pit boxer. I'm also checking on that now as well to make sure. I don't believe he was a pit bull. He looks nothing like a pit bull anyways, and many of the pit boxers I've seen have 2 different looks... one more like a boxer and one more like a bull. Bruiser didn't have a narrow face or round head. His head was very square and wide, more so than a pit bull, least the breeds I have in my head. I know there are different types.
edit on 18-3-2014 by StallionDuck because: (no reason given)




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