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Bush trying to make a Pan America?

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posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 08:54 PM
We seem to be getting more and more in the position where, no matter who we vote for, they are not for us.
The clear American hazard we steered from was John Kerry, but as we all know, most of an ice berg is under water, unseen. George Bush seems to be that part of the berg.

Illegal immigration is a threat to an economic threat to a nation, and particularly for this nation, a security threat as well. So why is this president trying to slam us into an ice berg at full speed?

"Believing American citizens would not be paying attention heading into a Thanksgiving holiday, democrats and the White House urged a gutting of anti illegal alien measures in the 9-11 Response bill and hoped it would be passed without much public awareness.
House Republican Party leaders made it clear that Pres. Bush desperately was begging them to pass the bill now, soon after the election, to give him a public relations victory. The President, above all, wanted a bill that would not impede the ability of illegal aliens to get drivers licenses or use foreign ID cards to work and live illegally in the United States."

Read the rest of this article and tell me if you smell a rat in the works.

posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 09:02 PM

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Read the rest of this article and tell me if you smell a rat in the works.

Personally, I smell a rat, three hamsters and a gerbil.

If I had to go through the INS crap in order to come here and work, then every other bugger should have to.

posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Pisky

If I had to go through the INS crap in order to come here and work, then every other bugger should have to.

This is one thing I hate about letting people just come in from Mexico illegally. I think its a slap to the face to anyone that came here legally.

This is a way of rewarding illegal actions IMO. why go through all the hassle of the INS when you can just come through Mexico.

Plus in this post 9-11 world its just not acceptable, I cant even chalk it up to bush wanting latino votes because he doesnt need them anymore.

[edit on 24-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]

posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 09:26 PM
Pisky and Shadow - I think what's deplorable and alarming is that since 9/11, the USA's border - at least the southern one - has become, if anything, MORE porous. Didn't they say in Time this summer that enough Mexican illegals came through in 2003 to fill 60 boeings per day?

That's a *lot* of people...

posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 09:46 PM
Yeah I think something on the order of 350,000 a year and rising. Thats a whole lot of people. Im sure the majority are honest workers but if even a small percent are dangerous criminals say 5% that would mean thats something like 17,500 criminals sneaking into the country each year.

Our prisons are full enough we dont need to start importing them from other countries

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 04:20 AM
Really, most people willing to risk imprisonment to get here probally don't bear ill will. Don't they deserver the same opprotunities we have?

I don't see anything wrong with it.

In fact, if this Bill comes to pass, I think the crime rate within this demographic will drop.

If I couldn't get a job, and my family was starving, I would steal. See what I am getting at?

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 06:31 AM
The number I heard crossing the border is 10,000 a day. Quite a few folks, I'd say.

Crisko, you've been fed a huge lie. Don't feel bad; I bought into that trap for a long time as well.
The U.S. is not an endless source of jobs, and it isn't an endless source of tax-payer dollars, either. Hospitals are going bankrupt because of unpaid bills; many of these in the southwest. Tuberculosis and even leprosey are on the rise and there are gangs of illegals in large cities that aren't your typical hard-working, poor Mexican immigrants that wwe romanticize about. The facts don't support our good feelings.

A nation is no more sovereign than its control of itsz borders. We are being invaded. Do they deserve the same opportunities as we do? That is for them to decide in their own country. This country is not here so that Vicente Fox can deal with his poor population by sending them here. Insurance goes up, taxes will eventually go up to support the tax burden, and crime is going up, not down, because all who come across aren't the hard workers you imagine.

Ontop of the run of the mill Mexican immigration problem, our borders being that porous gives you an indication of what and who else can be brought over the border, and the bill isn't for only Mexicans.

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 07:24 AM
Very scary stuff from the President who claims America is a safer place with him as your President.....Im just glad I live in the UK and were an island on our own, our borders are porous enough, I just hope that Blair dosnt follow suite as he has in the past and try to pass something like this through Parliament.

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 08:17 AM
You folks gotta be joking me as in pulling the chain. I am relatively certain that Thomas,Otts, and Shadow were and are totally pro Bush. Or am I wrong?
At any rate it will get worse. His nominee Gonzalez, for Justice, favors an open border, no border.
This is also the advisory that told freak'in georgie that Geneva Conventions were out dated and no longer applied because we are fighting a rebellion and not a Nation. Because these people are religious fanatics they are not entitled to rights. What about our religious fanatics. Can I torture them please?
We assume the moral high ground only if it serves our purpose. In my eyes and the eyes of the world we are moral hypocrites, which means we have no morales. 300 million Americans have no morales Bush won overwhelmingly with a majority of votes. Read it in the papers.
For over four years, well over, I and my friends have been patiently pointing
this flaw out. And suffered abuse from blind patriots. I am older than most and will not be forced to suffer this, you will. However make no mistake I will rub your noses in it every time.
What say Belgian Hound?

Polar Bear

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 12:52 PM
I can only say for myself for sure, I am more Anti-Kerry then pro-bush I dont like any of those skull and boners.

Im pretty sure Otts is anything but totally pro Bush though

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
The number I heard crossing the border is 10,000 a day. Quite a few folks, I'd say.

!0,000 arrive a day you say. And how many depart according to your sources? Most go shopping in Brownsville, Laredo, San Antonio, or other cities leaving positive foreign exchange in American shopkeepers tills before going home to enjoy their beloved "progressive" American goods. 10,000 allies crossing a border is not a threat any more than having 10 friends come over for dinner would be. Especially if those friends come to buy more than they eat, as in a business dinner.

If you are from the Southwest (California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas) and do not have Mexican or Indian blood somewhere back in your family tree, you are an exception to the rule. Mexican pilots flew Combat Air Patrol to protect American naval ships in the Pacific Theatre in World War Two, and Mexican soldiers serve honourably in the American Armed Forces to this day.

Having the title of Moderator should encourage you to investigate deeply before advocating the alienation of allied nations in the war against terror. The Mexican Government has a deep interest in preventing terror on American soil because America is a valued friend and trading partner. Mexican and Mexican-American workers and consumers make huge contributions to growth in the American economy. As Hispanics and Christians, we have participated in one of the longest ongoing struggles against Islamic extremism in history: read the history of Spain and the battles against the Moors.

I respect you Thomas and you are entitled to your opinion. I value your viewpoint. I just want readers who do not post to know that not all Americans are afraid of Mexican immigrants. We have an old saying: hold your friends close, and your enemies closer. If America and Mexico co-operate more closely, then the eyes of America will be able to spot trouble coming BEFORE it reaches the border. Better to work together, my friend.

Happy Thanksgiving, Thomas, extended to you from an old Native American.

We are friends, allies, relatives and co-workers. Blessings to you all.

[edit on 25-11-2004 by Chakotay]

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Read the rest of this article and tell me if you smell a rat in the works.

Oh yeah. I call it the Continental Corporate Merger. Others have labelled it NAFTA - super-sized. Proponents say it's a necessary competitive response to the EU. I say that's bs. Don't think any nation in the EU would touch these terms.

...But I'm pretty sure Mexico won't play unless they get their immigration concessions.


posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:27 PM
Polar Bear, for the last several months it has seemed to many that I am a blind Bush supporter. That is not the case at all. The problem has been that blind Bush-haters have spewed so much crap that Ive been busy responding to absurdities rather tan being able to chase true and real problems. There is quite a difference.

Chakotay, being an ally does not give anyone the right to illegally immigrate to this country. We are suffering from millions of illegals in this country, not just the increase in disease but also in the increased tax burden. And, like I said, because the border is so porous, we are also at more of a threat from terrorists and weapons coming up from the southern border.

Fox wants to dump all of the poor Mexicans off on us, the tax-paying U.S. citizens, rather than deal with the Mexican problems, as he should.

Regardless of Foxs, this nation, as every other nation, has the right and obligation to control immigration and should only take in those who are needed at the time. This nation is not a huge welfare program for the rest of the world.

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:43 PM
Viva de revolution'! or in other words the prevention of a revolution in Mexico, this seems to be the aim of immigration policy that I've seen in the last thirty years(maybe longer) for Mexico.

They continually avoid reform and change in their own country by shifting the poorer population to the richer US to the advantage of the ruling oligarchy.

posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 01:14 AM
Here is an interesting read on the impact of immigration on American Soceity and Culture as well as other aspects. If anyone is interested in that type of thing.

I find it interesting perhaps someone else will.

posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 09:50 AM

The INS won't let my husband in every time we file they want something else, he is moving here from one of the richest countries in Europe, we are not wealthy but ABSOLUTLY capable, law abideing citizens. I have recently moved back to the US from the same country he is from.
I pay taxes have two jobs own property, but no...
2 mexicans live right across the street niether are legal, both have a drivers licence, both have been convicted of identy theft, both have had thier drivers licence revoked both wait at restuarants working for tips(no actual wage) both have been in the country more than 6 years, niether speek english, niether pay taxes, niether contribute to our society.
One of them is married to my now friend I do not blame her for her naive contribution to the horrible mess this country is in.
My theory is that the migrant workers keep the wages down that is why our goverment allows their presence.
I want my husband to come home it is frick'nn cold here now.
I want justice and CLEAR guidelines in the immegration process.
I want equal rights so the LITTLE KINGS in the consolats can't make personal bias verdicts.
I want every single ILLIGAL immigrant OUT, as in HASTA LA VISTA, go, wipe the ground behind you.

This should be in RANT, I know I'm SORRY.
How many illigal mexicans do we have?
How many jobs are they stealing? ( YES steal,theft,robbery)
If these people earned actual money and paid taxes how much would that amount to.
These people recieve free benifits of various types, has any one tried to calculate this expense on our budget?
Where can I find such info?

[edit on 19-11-2005 by WalkInSilence]

[edit on 19-11-2005 by WalkInSilence]

posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 09:56 PM
Personally we should also declare a moratorium on legal immigration (no offense Pisky and others--besides you guys are here already and welcome to America) as well as toss all the illegals out.

There's a problem if there are more people than there are jobs. As was pointed out, we can't just yank jobs out of our collective rear ends. Illegals have got to go.

Of course that stupid Patriot Act is more about stripping our rights than it is securing our borders....

posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 10:15 AM
Why does everytime a thread like this comes up, the suporters of these people like to bring in the old (you dont like mexicans line) It has nothing to do with mexicans, It has everything to do with we dont like (Illegals) Most of which come through mexico, If they want to come here, They can do it the way every damn other country does it, The legal way..

And also a trend I always see in threads like these, People make it seem as if its our responsibility to let these poor people in and work because they have it bad in mexico, Yet they Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever Say, Its the Mexican Governments job to make sure these people have jobs and can support there famalies

And these same people also love to bring up the old They do jobs Americans wont do Aside from all the Illegal jobs they do here, you are wrong, Maybe noone has noticed but there are alot of unemployed Americans who would work if they could find a job, Thing is the jobs are all taken, We dont have enough friggin legal jobs in the states, and you people want to allow illegals in to take any possible chance a born born and raised American citizen has at earning an income?

This is our Country, Not theres, If they want to come here they can do it legally, I dont appreciate there asses comming without invitation, Stealing, Using, and Leaching from our country.

Its unbelievable we have to even debate this...

To those who support the illegals, Next time someone breaks into your nice surburbanite home, and steals from you, They werent realy stealing, They were earning an income to support themselves and there families, Its your duty to allow them to continue this act because they have it bad in the ghetto and poor neighborhoods, They cant find work because the governement, doesnt want to help them, noone will set up shop in the poor sections of town so there are no jobs, So they are simply going into the rich neighborhoods to make an honest living.

So dont be angry, And dont call the Police, they did nothing wrong.

[edit on 21-11-2005 by C0le]

posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 11:08 AM
You would be in serious trouble if you kicked all your illegals out of the country as they do all the jobs that other poeple wont do. I belive your economy would be in a much worse state because of it.

I can understand the annoance though we have people manage to get here how the UK goverment cant manage to keep illegals out is behond me were soft & have to give everyone an free ride. The fact that were over populated in the first place dosnt matter we just cram more people in. I go into Birmingham, London now and im a minority no one around you speaks English & i wont even talk about leister.....

posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Everlasting England
You would be in serious trouble if you kicked all your illegals out of the country as they do all the jobs that other poeple wont do. I belive your economy would be in a much worse state because of it.


If anything the wages would go up, and people could have a higher standard of living. You ever read Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed," where she shows how hard it is to live on minimum wage? (Granted she hardly addresses the problem of illegal aliens.)

Companies like hiring illegals because it keeps the wages down.

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