With 79% Turnout, Exit Polls Confirm 93% Voters Back Crimea Joining Russia

victor7
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

EU was not giving any funds so Yanukovich had to turn to Russia, otherwise Uks economy would have defaulted on payments. Russia promised $15B in months and $3B was already paid in January.

But it's what the people want regardless of who the then Ukrainian president was taking sweeteners and groomed by in order to favour ties with, the people of Ukraine are extremely westernised and respect the "proper" democratic way and the western values over the story they heard from history and there grandparents, it's there choose and a the government serve the people, not Russia not there president the people's voice, and that cannot be bought or persuaded to them by anyone or any agency


This was the spark ignition to the whole show

We must understand these facts and make a despising based in this alone and NOT what the US has done simply because they're pushing the international community's opinion the hardest, we must remember that many millions give there life for our freedoms when a similar man did the same thing in 1938

Less we forget

It's about Ukraine not the US

reply to post by TritonTaranis


if Uks economy had defaulted the entry into EU would have slipped out for another 3-5 years down the road. even after yanukoich ouster EU did not promise any funds or immediate entry into the club. EU is already tending to sick economies and does not want more headache.

regarding Uks westernized or super-westernized or ultra-westernized will not determine the success of the economy. 23 years of free rein and economy in the ditch......is not a meaning of ultra-westernization. growing ponytails or wearing western clothes is only superficial variable. western countries are fairly clean of corruption, try to make Uks corruption free, that is westernization.

yanukovich took the right "immediate evasive" action to avoid the bottom falling off below the feet.

putin is not hitler. he has no agenda to take over other countries. his candid agenda is no ex-soviet republic join the NATO as that makes Russia's security very vulnerable. his other agenda is proper treatment of russian people in the republics. if russians are ill treated in the "near abroad" then expect the tanks to roll in..........not to take over the country but to stablize the situation.

guess if putin comes down hard on corruption in russia then western media will call him dictatorial thug and what not.

i like putin's approach, he does what is good for russia and let's the enemies cry and whimper in hell to where they belong.

reply to post by knightrider078


I wonder if the U.S would allow states to vote to secede from the U.S? Look, people should be allowed to do what they want. If they want to secede, then blame your government for not doing enough to appease them. And hey, if the U.S want more land, then they can always ask Mexico to join them, I'm sure the Mexicans wouldn't mind that.

Quite frankly, I find the idea of countries unnecessary, and going to war over it, well, let's just say, there's a reason why humans are in the state that they are.

reply to post by CJCrawley


It's a country with two different philosophies and interests. If they live on it, then it's their land. If the Western UK doesn't like it, then they can move to Europe or the U.S, how does that sound? Why should the Crimeans be forced to live under a government that doesn't serve them economically?

np6888
reply to post by CJCrawley

 

It's a country with two different philosophies and interests. If they live on it, then it's their land. If the Western UK doesn't like it, then they can move to Europe or the U.S, how does that sound? Why should the Crimeans be forced to live under a government that doesn't serve them economically?

It's not a case of the "Western UK [sic]" not "liking" it.

It's an illegal land grab of a region of another country.

Just as wrong as if China were to walk into Vladivostok and declare it Chinese.

I'm guessing you would agree with me on the last point.

reply to post by CJCrawley

It's an illegal land grab of a region of another country.

Just as wrong as if China were to walk into Vladivostok and declare it Chinese.

No, it's a country in the midst of a western backed coup by rightwing nationalists (Neo-Nazis) where the a portion of the country chose to hold a referendum and voted to break away.

China invading Vladivostok is not the same. Now if Tibet held a referendum and voted for independence or alignment with Russia that would be a little closer though still not the same.

Let me ask you, If Alaska had a 75% Russian ethnic population and voted to secede what would you do? I'm guessing you'd claim technical legalities and force them into submission. If Texas voted to become an independent republic? I'm guessing you'd do the same. Just a guess though, I'm curious as to your answer.

Bassago
No, it's a country in the midst of a western backed coup by rightwing nationalists (Neo-Nazis) where the a portion of the country chose to hold a referendum and voted to break away.

Oh, that "neo NAZI" slur, so beloved of the Russian propaganda machine. So wrong and misleading.

Have there been "western backed" coups in practically all of the ex Soviet state who have chosen Western liberalism against Russian authoritarianism and corruption? No, what you have had are countries which have become sick of the Russian past and have sought voluntarily to forge closer ties with the West - many of whom are now part of the EU and NATO.

You can argue the rights and wrongs of this Crimean referendum, but the fact is that Russia have engineered the annexation of a block of another countries territory, right down to Putin's declaration in the Duma that Crimea was always Russian - and I guess the total relocation/genocide of the Crimean Tatars started by Stalin will now be complete as all ethnicities who reject Russian dominance will be expunged. How clear it is why any nation with a past that is entangled with Russia wants to get out.

Regards

Regards

reply to post by paraphi


Really? Really you're saying there are no Neo-Nazis behind the implosion of the Ukraine government? Not a Neo-Nazi in sight, is that what you really believe?

Ukrainian neo-Nazi organizations were the driving force behind the coup d’etat committed in Kiev in late February. The ultranationalist Pravy (Right) Sector, led by Dmitro Yarosh, the self-styled Ukrainian Fuhrer, is the most publicized of them. Yarosh is backed by a number of the neo-fascist paramilitary organizations that make up the “self-defense of Maidan” and sport neo-Nazi symbols (a modified swastika and Celtic cross).

The Svoboda (“Freedom”) Party is the political front for the Ukrainian neo-Nazi movement. It has been the beneficiary of almost half the political appointments made by the “provisional government” in Kiev. Global Research..

Guess we just can't trust those Canadians then, can we?

Global Research

The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) is an independent research and media organization based in Montreal. The CRG is a registered non-profit organization in the province of Quebec, Canada.

paraphi

Bassago
No, it's a country in the midst of a western backed coup by rightwing nationalists (Neo-Nazis) where the a portion of the country chose to hold a referendum and voted to break away.

Oh, that "neo NAZI" slur, so beloved of the Russian propaganda machine. So wrong and misleading.

Have there been "western backed" coups in practically all of the ex Soviet state who have chosen Western liberalism against Russian authoritarianism and corruption? No, what you have had are countries which have become sick of the Russian past and have sought voluntarily to forge closer ties with the West - many of whom are now part of the EU and NATO.

You can argue the rights and wrongs of this Crimean referendum, but the fact is that Russia have engineered the annexation of a block of another countries territory, right down to Putin's declaration in the Duma that Crimea was always Russian - and I guess the total relocation/genocide of the Crimean Tatars started by Stalin will now be complete as all ethnicities who reject Russian dominance will be expunged. How clear it is why any nation with a past that is entangled with Russia wants to get out.

Regards

Regards

I suggest you try and educate yourself before typing about a topic you have no clue about, ignorance is not welcome here. Can you back your assertions? Because its been well documented the neonazi heads and hands of the movement. You can argue crimea all you like, but the fact is there was a referendum, crimea became independent, deal with it.

reply to post by Bassago


Citing one source that says a person is a neo Nazi is no evidence of a neo-Nazi take over of Ukraine and shows a lazy and superficial understanding of Ukrainian politics. Also, just because a source says that it is "independent" does not mean that it is not bias or trying to push a particular worldview or agenda: RT.com, the Russian propaganda news-station probably describes itself as "independent"!

This neo-Nazi slur, so beloved of the Russian propaganda machine, usually describes nationalism and independence, which is what Scottish nationalists believe in, but they are not Nazis. People seem easily confused with nationalist politics and "national socialist" politics - easily done if you want to believe in something that is not.

Regards

Yusomad
I suggest you try and educate yourself before typing about a topic you have no clue about, ignorance is not welcome here.

Thank you for your kind words.

You are just another new ATS poster who has signed up in the last month and who seems to propagate an aggressive attitude towards anyone who thinks Russia is in the wrong.

If you have anything constructive to add, rather than what you just said to me, then please do so.

Regards

reply to post by Bassago

No, it's a country in the midst of a western backed coup by rightwing nationalists (Neo-Nazis) where the a portion of the country chose to hold a referendum and voted to break away.

Because the majority of the population of this particular area of Ukraine is ethnic Russian. A decision based entirely on ethnicity/nationality!

So, for you, that means any other region of any other country can declare itself independent of the country of which it is a part based simply upon the fact that most of its population are ethnically different from the country as a whole?

So, for example, whole chunks of a cosmopolitan country like UK/France/Germany/USA etc could become independent at any given moment because they are ethnically different from the mother country due to immigration?

All they got to do is hold a local vote and - hey presto! - it's an independent state?

Is that really what you are advocating?

I disagree.

China invading Vladivostok is not the same.

Why not?

if Tibet held a referendum and voted for independence or alignment with Russia that would be a little closer though still not the same.

Why not?

If Alaska had a 75% Russian ethnic population and voted to secede what would you do?

Ignore it.

What has ethnicity got to do with the price of fish?

Alaska is part of the US regardless of its ethnic makeup.

Would it be okay in your eyes if the US dissolved into thousands of micro states?


Crimea isn't, nor has ever been (as far as I know) an independent country, despite enjoying a certain amount of autonomy. It has always been administered by either Russia or Ukraine (for the last 60 years, Ukraine).

Then along comes Russia - uninvited by Ukraine - and oversees a vote for independence from Ukraine.

Do you suppose the Russian army would have limped quietly back to Moscow if the result had been different?

Stop seeing Russia as this Mother Bountiful - it was a land grab because Crimea is strategically important to Russia.

And this isn't over by a long chalk.

Book 1, chapter 1.

As we talk about the situation in Crimea, it is important to remember there are many many Crimeans who were born Russian- not just ethnically but physically. Any one 60 years or older was born a Russian.

Those folks don't see this as seceding, they think of it as going home.

reply to post by Montana

it is important to remember there are many many Crimeans who were born Russian- not just ethnically but physically. Any one 60 years or older was born a Russian.

According to the 2001 census, 58.5% of Crimeans are Russian.

Not exactly a massive majority.

Not that it's a great reason for Russia to expand its borders anyway.

reply to post by CJCrawley


I am not sure that that census reports everyone born in Crimea before late 1954 as Russian. I think it might count them as native Crimeans. I guess I don't have any evidence of that, but I would probably bet some money on it.

reply to post by CJCrawley

So, for you, that means any other region of any other country can declare itself independent of the country of which it is a part based simply upon the fact that most of its population are ethnically different from the country as a whole?

Yep, that's about it. As long as those people are legal citizens of the country and there is a referendum that determines the outcome I have no problem with it.

I believe in freedom, personal and state or country. Obviously a lot of people don't and are willing to do almost anything to maintain whatever power and control they feel they have.

I believe the referendum was completely legal or Crimea wouldn't have done it if it was illegal.. They would have done their research. Plus it was not a forced referendum.. Was there any gun fire or any violence that day? I haven't heard of any so I guess not.

It is just a reason for the US and NATO (which my country is part of) to start another war... IMHO.