Holographic universe?

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

A massless particle (photon) produces a massless object

Wait. I read "particle" and "massless" and I get weirded out.
How can an object/particle be massless?
I read your post several times. I don't get it, and like I said, I'm not a dimwit.

Photons are particles with no mass that have wave/particle duality, bosons are simply particles with mass. The expression of a massless particle based on a photon in a holographic projection would be a 3 dimensional image that produced light. The expression of a particle with mass based on a boson in a holographic projection would be that of matter, or a 3 dimensional reality. A lot of scientists lately have been discussing the potential source of the boson based interference pattern and looking at the expanding event horizon of the universe. It's a good place to look, since according to Bell's Theorem or "Spooky Action At A Distance" it is reasonably probable to presume that paired particles at-a-distance could be easily influenced by interference patterns originating from trillions of light years away, since the power requirements seem to follow an inverse square law, meaning that the closer paired particles are to each other the greater the power required to facilitate communications. I think I said that right.

Cheers - Dave

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Rex282

 

Either way our only perception is the one we have by the dimensions we live in.We cannot transcend those dimensions no matter what we think,believe or do.

Indeed. Obvi.

But what is with the fact that we are aware of not being able to transcend those dimensions????


It's mind-melting. Boggling.
Thanks for your thoughtful response.

You mean like some kind of Astral Projection but with higher that 3-dimensional visual sensors. I cannot even understand visually how 4D would look like since I am stuck with only memory of 3D as the highest form I can perceive. Maybe the knowledge is hidden somewhere but I have no clue where to look and no synchronicity happening that I have observed that can guide me to it.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

How can we be sure "what is" infinitely huge. If "what is" is curved then you might come back to the starting point since we are moving in a way that can be projected down similar to 1D movement on the surface of a 2D circle.

This frustrates me so much I think I might cry.
I have studied Buddhist philosophy, though, and actually a couple of times enjoyed the fleeting sensation of 'enlightenment'.
Everything is exactly how it's supposed to be, all the time....

and all people are doing their level best, no matter how other humans perceive their actions.
I honestly believe that. Everyone is trying their best at all times.....lame as it might be, it's the best they (we) can do.

It really depends on your definition of enlightenment?

If you think of enlightenment as feeling the flow of energy from source (whatever you wanna call it), then the light to the body is like power to motherboard, so that the mind/consciousness can do things on a higher level, but what the mind/consciousness can do is a by product of en-lighten-ment and not en-lighten-ment itself. If you have another definition on enlightenment then I will gladly hear it.

Another by product for instance can be a intent->manifestation calming/healing tool (for instance Reiki) since you are pushing light thru the body.

From my way of thinking of en-lighten-ment is not the end but a new beginning and continuation in evolving/changing. Evolution takes time and sometimes it is one step forward and two back. It will work out in the end.

A little prophet music from Gorillaz. Comin' up to the overload.

I want to thank everyone who took the time to try to 'splain me the concept. I have a rudimentary grasp of Quantum, and I am a believer in the paranormal. As others have pointed out on ATS in many places, we don't know as much as we think we do.

I was particularly stymied by the concept of the universe being holographic - because perhaps of what little I know about them (movies and tv depictions, such as Princess Leia being projected by R2D2).

You have all helped, each in a singular way. (heh - get it? We're all singularities, but connected). I especially liked 3NL's analogy of the apple.
Which brings me to the question by LittleByLittle:
what is enlightenment, in my view?
reply to post by LittleByLittle

It really depends on your definition of enlightenment?

If you think of enlightenment as feeling the flow of energy from source (whatever you wanna call it), then the light to the body is like power to motherboard, so that the mind/consciousness can do things on a higher level, but what the mind/consciousness can do is a by product of en-lighten-ment and not en-lighten-ment itself. If you have another definition on enlightenment then I will gladly hear it.

I thought of it the way Allan Watts described it in the first book I read of his about Buddhism, 20+ years ago.
The idea/feeling/gnosis that we ARE all connected, are part of the universe, and that everything is in balance at all times.
It's been such a long time ago that now words fail me; but it was similar to how Watts described it - an overarching feeling of 'oneness' with all - of physical boundaries that we perceive between objects being not 'really real.'

That we share the same space as everything else does. Like the millions of apples, or fractals (a term I've recently explored).

Is that how you see it?

reply to post by BuzzyWigs

Is that how you see it?

That's exactly how I see it personally. Separation is only an illusion but it is a necessary one. If there wasn't the illusion of separation, things would be extremely boring and there wouldn't really be any kind of experience.

Without the physical world (the thing that creates the illusion of separation) we wouldn't have family or friends or anything else that gives us joy. People who believe we aren't connected in some way are trapped in the illusion, but there are those who can lift the veil and see past the illusion and see the Oneness that is existence.

There is only One God, and we are all it, only experiencing itself from different perspectives. This is what all "holy" books point toward but veil with dogma, misinterpretation, translation, ritual, and tradition. They all point to the one reading, but they personify the qualities of the reader into a person or persons that lived thousands of years ago.

Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Ra, El, Brahma, etc. all contain the qualities within every single one of us. There's a reason for thinking yourself to be God is the highest form of heresy possible, because it's the truth and we live in a world of lies.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I was really into Zen from my studies.
I just did a basic search for Alan Watts, and found this very interesting/compelling essay:
Off-beat Zen
How I found my way out of depression, thanks to the writings of the English priest who brought Buddhism to the West

Describes my beliefs very well...
although I'm on the fence about reincarnation, I appreciate the rest of it.

er since I was a child, I have been acutely sensitive to the idea — in the way that other people seem to feel only after bereavement or some shocking unexpected event — that the human intellect is unable, finally, to make sense of the world: everything is contradiction and paradox, and no one really knows much for sure, however loudly they profess to the contrary.

It is an uncomfortable mindset, and as a result I have always felt the need to build a conceptual box in my mind big enough to fit the world into. Most people seem to have a talent for denying or ignoring life’s contradictions, as the demands of work and life take them over. Or they fall for an ideology, perhaps religious or political, that appears to render the world a comprehensible place.

Thought of starting a new thread to discuss it, but Zen's been done here fairly recently.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs

in my dreams, I do have sight, smell, touch, hearing, etc.

Exactly what I was saying. So if a person is trying to see through the veil of Maya ( or simulated universe), they can't use their eyes, ears or any other physical senses to do it. That would be like trying to see the hologram room which is running the hologram you're currently in. EVERYTHING you're experiencing now, IS the hologram.

Finding out the holographic nature of this Universe is NO different than discovering the holographic nature of a dream. You have to become Lucid or make yourself aware that you are dreaming. If you just mentally deduce this, you still won't see it. Which is why people who've mentally deduced reality, are STILL searching for it.

reply to post by Visitor2012

Finding out the holographic nature of this Universe is NO different than discovering the holographic nature of a dream. You have to become Lucid or make yourself aware that you are dreaming. If you just mentally deduce this, you still won't see it. Which is why people who've mentally deduced reality, are STILL searching for it.

Profound...
I am a lucid dreamer, actually. Nightly.
I've experienced it during every 24-hour cycle for many years now, and I'm fairly well convinced that it is as real as my waking life.
This is partly why I made this thread....

BuzzyWigs

It really depends on your definition of enlightenment?

If you think of enlightenment as feeling the flow of energy from source (whatever you wanna call it), then the light to the body is like power to motherboard, so that the mind/consciousness can do things on a higher level, but what the mind/consciousness can do is a by product of en-lighten-ment and not en-lighten-ment itself. If you have another definition on enlightenment then I will gladly hear it.

I thought of it the way Allan Watts described it in the first book I read of his about Buddhism, 20+ years ago.
The idea/feeling/gnosis that we ARE all connected, are part of the universe, and that everything is in balance at all times.
It's been such a long time ago that now words fail me; but it was similar to how Watts described it - an overarching feeling of 'oneness' with all - of physical boundaries that we perceive between objects being not 'really real.'

That we share the same space as everything else does. Like the millions of apples, or fractals (a term I've recently explored).

Is that how you see it?

In a way I make a distinction between understanding/concept off non-duality (everything being one single whole that you are from my point of view describing) and the symptoms/changes caused by enlightenment that can make you understanding non-duality. I see it as possible that A causes B and B causes A but you can also have A and B exclusively in a person.

You can still be a state of oneness/bliss with source/divine and still feel disconnected with what is going on around you currently. Some people go hermit or silent because of this feeling of disconnection (duality separation) since there is a boundary of miss understanding if they speak of their experience or speak on an extreme box less way that people cannot handle.

Luke 14:26 in this case is a perfect example on how Jesus describe this disconnection.

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."

So even if Jesus know and feels the non dualistic reality and the bliss, it does not mean he is not at times annoyed at the people around him and the disconnection he feel, since there is a lack of higher level understanding where the parts can become one.

reply to post by LittleByLittle

Some people go hermit or silent because of this feeling of disconnection (duality separation) since there is a boundary of miss understanding if they speak of their experience or speak on an extreme box less way that people cannot handle.

And that is what Zen masters say: He who knows remains silent.

Did you read the article I posted? It was very much in tune with my perception/attitude

I'll have to go back and see if it was you or someone else who said they thought Jesus was teaching this very thing. Whomever it was, I agree. It's just that Westerners (Occidental Thinkers) can't really get it without working at it. I worked at it.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

Some people go hermit or silent because of this feeling of disconnection (duality separation) since there is a boundary of miss understanding if they speak of their experience or speak on an extreme box less way that people cannot handle.

And that is what Zen masters say: He who knows remains silent.

Did you read the article I posted? It was very much in tune with my perception/attitude

To me it is more like since people have an idol:ed view of what enlightenment is and put it on a pedestal the ones who are remain silent with the ones who are not and thereby the people who "are not" are disconnected from learning from them due to their miss conceptions on what the enlightenment box contains.

The whole:

My personal ‘enlightenment’ came and went — but I hope it might return. Perhaps this article will be the first step in that direction. It feels like it is. It might be in my hands or it might not. But if I can find the path again, then I will stay on it — until I lose it. And, as the Zen saying instructs, if I see the Buddha, I will kill him. Because the moment you start thinking of yourself as ‘enlightened’, you are not.

becomes a garmentation of an ego loss experience and creates paradoxes out of it that is from my point of view just boring mind games where zen is chasing itself without every being able to catch itself. Garmentation is for those who care about how they are perceived (the perception of their ego as ego less). Those who know what they are do not need to care about how they are perceived and just be what they feel like being.

An altered state of perception in the mind can come and go just like the quote. The thing I think of en-lighten-ment stays on if you achieve it. Once you are Radio-Active you stay Radio-Active

As usual a problem with human language where different concepts have not been quantified so that there are miss understandings when using the words and therefore the meaning of what one person say is not received as the meaning it describes from the sender.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


I want you to envisage yourself as being someone whom wants to participate in the "Hollographic Reality Matrix"...

"Ok, you say."

"Excellent, lets get you started!"

They take you to an "exercise room"...

Amongst the variety of tasks that you have to perform, they are, essentially, actions that you will "repeat".

So, they get you to wear a "suit" that has nervous sensory feedback, they take you to a room, and you must take a glass of water, pick it up, and drink it.

So, for instance, they have "mapped" that behaviour, and it remains as a pattern in your "mind script".

When you are in the "hollographic matrix" you habitually will be using that pattern to pick up common objects, along side it, is a variation pattern, however, it is a simulation, so, you are "plugged in" and the only things you can do are those that you are "choosing" - each choice is a relay to the "force feedback" mechanism of the "matrix" - allowing a "barrier" between "objects" to be created, so that you don't pass through them.

The beauty of this, is that, you can be running a "sim suit" in the matrix, and also have a "real self" in the "Real World" that also operates and is managed from time to time to make sure that you are still "alive" in the "Real World".

There are also "sims" that are those whom have decided to go to the "fourth dimension" - when they choose to "cross over" they are converted into a "program" and forfeit their "real" bodies.

Also, there is a "prison" - those whom have forcefully terminated thier "real bodies" - however, have not been cleared for the "fourth dimension" - they need special treatment so that they can return to their living vessels - obviously the management behind the system do not want any casualties on thier hands.

There are different "classes" of participants:

a) Those whom know that it is a simulation, and are aware of the "Real World".
b) Those whom have forgotten that it is a simulation.
c) Those that have realised that it is a simulation, however, forgotten that they chose to participate
d) Those whom think that it is "Real" and deny that they participated.
e) Agents - to deal with trouble-makers.
f) Staff - performing basic duties, i.e. psychiatrists.*
g) Management - those whom have a vested interest in the system.
e) Visitors - whom can "observe" but not intervene.
f) Servers - "plugged in" to manage from the simulation-side.

This video explains the obvious "benefits" of the system, however, also, the fact that you must see the simulation as being a superior reality to the "Real World" and also be able to accept that things are not what they seem.



* Psychiatrists can't tell you that you are in-sim unless you realise it yourself, the key is to make an affirmative statement to a "staff" member - "Yes I know this is a simulation and wish to continue to participate/be let out."

Of course, when there is a "lock down" situation, no one is allowed to leave until things are rectified.

Lastly, there is another type of participant, however, they are seeking the "matrix" as a program that they can "download" into thier own atomic signature.

These individuals are technically "Real", and in the simulation - those whom participate with them are a different program completley.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs

I've experienced it during every 24-hour cycle for many years now, and I'm fairly well convinced that it is as real as my waking life.

Taking that to be a microcosm of the so-called reality we're experiencing now, you can see, quite profoundly, what's happening here.

If I may, how would you respond to someone in your dream, if they asked you about the holographic nature of the Dream?

reply to post by Visitor2012

If I may, how would you respond to someone in your dream, if they asked you about the holographic nature of the Dream?

Wow, great question.
I'd probably say, "You tell me!"

But yes, I was thinking about it earlier today, about how in Dream there's no apparent need to eat or sleep or shop or excrete;
things just flow along....

Since my late father comes fairly frequently, I would rather/probably ask him.....
so - is it holographic?

LOL
Long, big story...my dad was an engineer, a pilot, a lifeguard, a handyman.......
he knew everything.

And when I'd ask him 'what does [this] mean?', he'd say "Look it up!"
So I did do.
Still do as well.

reply to post by SystemResistor


I did read and try to absorb your point....
I've seen The Matrix, I kinda get it.

But that seems a matter of consciousness more than holographics....

But even so, I appreciate your analogy.
Like I said, I'm not a physicist, and am trying to be a better -philosopher-.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by introspectionist

 

Nobody knows for sure if perception of reality takes place in the brain though, right?

Well, neurosurgeons have looked forever to find the "seat of consciousness", and they haven't. Kind of like having the lights on, and trying all of the circuit-breakers in the main box, but the light not going out when any of them are flipped off.

Again - this subject of consciousness and perception really really really interests me. Maybe most of all because we just don't know!!!
The greatest conspiracy ever. Who Did This To Us????

You know, to me this was never a big mystery to me, because I always thought of the soul, consciousness, perception, and your inner conscience as being but different interpretations of the same thing. Would certainly explain why they cant find the seat of the conscious, seeing as the soul would be metaphysical, if anything.

Deleted my post

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


Well, see that's the crux of the matter. And the answer's in it too. In order to understand the enormity of this question, imagine it in reverse. What would you say to a person in your dream (the ones in our minds, not astral projections or OBE's), if he asked you 'what is the holographic nature of this dream?" And "who am ?" . I challenge you to play along and answer that question. Because the answer to our ENTIRE existence lies within the answer to that question. We can, short cut , as it were. And get right to pure clarity on the question.

Right now, everyone is trying to figure out what all of this is. They want to know the Universe and Reality , they want to know who or what they are. When the answer is the EXACT same answer you would give to the question "what is the holographic nature of this dream?"

A dream is a 100% holographic illusion. I'm not talking about astral and OBE experiences (which, unlike dreams, are conscious experiences) . I'm talking about our UNCONSCIOUS dreams. It is quite clear, that everything in your unconscious dreams are created and sustained by the marvelous power of your mind. It's made of ENTIRELY of your consciousness. The walls feel real, the people look real. Yet everything from the pebbles on the ground to the clouds above and the winds , is an illusion within your mind, and you're doing it ALL, because it's ALL you .

So, assuming such a perspective. What then, would you say to a person in your dreams who asks:

'what is the nature of reality?"
'Who am I?'
'Who are you?'
'What does being aware mean?'
'What is enlightenment?'
'Where is the creator?'


Easy to consider the question when placed in terms of our nightly dreams. And perhaps, easy to see how damn near impossible to tell them the Truth and be taken seriously. Yet, ONLY when you're lucid in a dream are you aware of the fact that even your body is an illusion, you know that everyone and everything is YOU pretending not to be you. You're doing it all, simultaneously. And you know that EVERYTHING you're witnessing is an EXTREMELY convincing illusion made entirely out of your consciousness.

reply to post by Visitor2012

Yet, ONLY when you're lucid in a dream are you aware of the fact that even your body is an illusion, you know that everyone and everything is YOU pretending not to be you. You're doing it all, simultaneously. And you know that EVERYTHING you're witnessing is an EXTREMELY convincing illusion made entirely out of your consciousness.

Interesting.

Just overnight I had a lengthy lucid dream, which took place in a house on a campus where my daughter had (in a dream before) lived; I was helping new tenants move in, and showing them around. Then it became clear that the same strife (unexpected co-tenants who were unruly) was going on - it was Freshman Weekend; and after we'd got all moved in, were told we had the wrong apartment and had to go.

So - pack up and go, we did.
I knew the "players" (let's call them for the sake of the discussion) - I had met them before, knew their names even. Some I'd had private time with, others were blasts from the past - old school mates and so forth. Knew it was a dream, but you see, to me it isn't all me inventing all the players - they were separate entities from me. I didn't know what they would do next; I just knew my way around and went about packing up my things.

As I awoke, the scene stayed just as fresh, as though it had been my activity of the night. The players aren't here in this physical dimension, but I know they are real, have their own lives, jobs, schooling, attitudes, quirks...and that I'll see them later in my dreams as well.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


This is mind blowing! When i was a little girl, I though we were marionettes and that the stars were just holes punched in a backdrop. Maybe we are just holograms! Cool stuff.

Lucinda