"Shill Hysteria" Is Destroying the Conspiracy Theorist World

reply to post by rigel4


Exciting = Sensational?

Unity_99
I wish we had a nice big fat shill emoticon. There problem half solved, the other half is getting them to stop swarming around and blocking good threads...

...with their pesky knowledge, experience, logic and facts! Darn them!

Their interference PROVES!!11!! that they are shills, no doubt in the pay of Big [insert your most hated group]!

the2ofusr1
When I think somebody might be a shill I don't freak out in fear. The revelations from the Snowden doc. were quite telling and was a confirmation as to that fact.I found myself having to rethink some aspects as to responses I might give . This has actually helped me because I had to learn more about the logical fallacies that can be used .Sometimes the shill doesn't have to get you to agree with him .He may just be trying to create a division and want you to take either side of the same coin .When in fact there may be something to better invest out mind with . Right now it's the Putin good Putin bad divide .The Ukrainian Girls interview with Syrian Girl brings out a different story that really shows the divide that is being created by propaganda and is keeping the Ukrainian people on the side lines .

For me the process into the conspiracy world has gone through different stages from a measurable fear to one being able to think a little better then before .Having the shill present actually helps my learning process ....peace

Shill!

J/k, yeah I hear you!

BrianFlanders
I think it's inevitable. The real shills undoubtedly exist and they're not just going to come out and identify themselves. Everyone knows they're there. No one knows who they are. The best anyone can do is guess. The instinct when you suspect someone is to say something.

Oh but they do, they do, come right out and basically shout "I'm a shill."

It's the ones that propagate knowingly false information that not only propagate said information, but try to cause a swell of people to follow them into being their little "Parrot" on their shoulder. Pirate style.

I won't name any names, but there is one super prominent guaranteed shill on ATS. He/Them knows that I know he/them are on a shill account. He's probably the most popular person on the boards and is the resident expert in everything.

His followers are shills too, but not legitimate shills, they are just an extension of his shilling. They are people like you and me who allow him to manipulate them into believing he's really a genius -- they become his weapons -- defacto creating more shills that work for free and have no affiliation that tracks back to the boss.

This is the "Divide and Conquer" strategy for controlling populace. About 1% of all "shills" are actually shills, the rest are those that feed off the shill and allow themselves to be brainwashed into doing the work autonomously in their vein.

It's very easy to see who are the real shills, you just have to follow the common threads back to the leader. The ones who are quick to quack shill, are generally those conscripted unknowingly BY a shill. That's the very purpose of shilling.

I don't mind discussing this in U2U.

reply to post by Snarl


I was on Usenet using TIN. I had a Netcom shell, and played with the best. John Grubor, Tim Skirvin, Chris, and Goat, to name a few. I was using the web before graphical interface existed. Usenet was like the Wild West on those days. I got mail bombed by the best, Usenet floods daily, and learned quite a bit there, as well as IRC. Ran my own channel for about 3 years. I know a lot about that stuff, but having people screw with you is a lot different than 'the government'. Way, way, different.

So no, I don't need to PM you to get a clue. I get what it is like to have people mess with you that know things.

I also get what it is to have OTHER people mess with you, people that have power, not just words. Words don't scare me.

Like I said, this is about a lot more than what appears to most to be some online argument. And they do, and did, exist here.

Good thread OP. I think the shill-hunt is partially based in truth and partially in human insecurity. Far too many people feel better about themselves when they put others down or make them look stupid, and in academic and/or forum settings, this means posters who desperately need to let others know that they are smarter than everyone else. By calling someone a shill, it asserts their in-crowd cool behavior and fills this egotistical void.

The REAL problem with shills is that it seems that it takes very few of them to totally dismantle a thread, kind of like having a dab of poo on a large delicious plate of food-- chances are you will not be eating any more!

Because of this, I always thought it would be fantastic to create a more exclusive discussion forum that requires a (free) year-long online course on logic, reasoning and forming arguments, and then end the course with an exam that you need to pass in order to create an account. Those barriers to entry would block out bored twelve-year-olds, increase costs for shilling companies (if they exist), and basically cut out any other fluff and leave nothing but meaningful discussion....

reply to post by Never Despise


Youtube is over run with shills people like Pete Santilli, Dutchsunce Montagraph and many others. Many people dont realize they are just making good conspiracys in to a circus side show. They muddy the waters with bad intel and pass it off as truth some even fabricate data to get views and financial gain. Its why i follow nobody and do the leg work on my own. The shills and fear mongers only help the PTB via social engineering wether they know it or not. Anyone with a web cam now is considered alternative news hence system faulure for any truth to get any legs behind it. I dont mean to be negative but everyone is a arm chair expert online these days hard to get a educated opinion on anything. You will find these vloggers want to control the information just as much as the people behind the curtain.

reply to post by Libertygal

So no, I don't need to PM you to get a clue.

And ... wah-la ... Now your other post makes perfect sense.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Now this is a topic right up my alley !

I recently had my original account cancelled with no explanation given, and the only thread I was commenting on at the time had me questioning, not accusing, but just questioning if the person I was debating with was a shill, which was purely based on their shill-like behaviour. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when you get your profile cancelled on a conspiracy site for suggesting someone might be a shill, based on shill-like behaviour.

What I class shill-like behaviour is having a clear, one-sided argument that doesn't not change no matter what evidence, facts or even suggestions are made. This is usually a shill outing themselves as a shill. And that is one thing I have found in the past, a shill will always end up revealing themselves if you can remain patient enough and not sink to their level.

The hardest part is trying to work out if the person is just completely ignorant, or if that ignorance is actually an agenda.

If I can give an example of what I believe to be CLASSIC shill behaviour....................I remember when Ron Paul was running for Republican candidate, and there was a member who no longer exists going by a recent member search, therefore naming that profile name isn't in any breach, as the profile no longer exist. The member was called Outkast Searcher, or something very similar to that. This person went on to EVERY Ron Paul thread to bash Ron Paul and his supporters at EVERY chance, regardless of any logical arguments being put forth. This user would then also go onto EVERY Obama thread to preach about how great Obama was, and would not acknowledge even ONE of Obama's faults. As soon as it was clear that Ron Paul was not going to win, his profile was gone, almost as if to say, my work here was done ?
Nearly every thread that they commented on ended up into petty arguments, and when this happens it takes peoples minds off the topic and resorts into a slanging match. It also derails the thread, which was the entire purpose to begin with.

I cannot prove that this person WAS a shill, but I do believe that they ended up proving it themselves. That's what I mean about being patient. Wait for them to expose themselves, because those with an agenda will always eventually reveal that agenda, and themselves. A shill promoting an agenda to justify their paycheque will NEVER outlast someone that is seeking the truth. You'll also find that most shills probably only reply to threads during office hours. To do so after hours would need overtime pay. You'll probably also find that most shills don't reply over the weekend when their office is closed. We seek the truth as a passion, but they seek to distort the truth for a paycheque.

If you think that someone may be a shill, have a look at their profile. Look at what threads they right on and see if there is a pattern there i.e. Do they ONLY write negative comments for one political party, but then ONLY positive comments for the other party ? Do they ignore facts and evidence and stick to an agenda ? Does it appear that they are only commenting on one topic, rather than covering several different topics as most non-shills do ?
These things do not prove that they are a shill, but it does give a good indication as to whether or not they may be. A shill's profile is usually the biggest giveaway, but not always.

But again, the hardest part is determining if it is a shill, or just a very ignorant person. But an ignorant person doesn't usually have an agenda, whereas a shill always has one. The ignorant person will more than likely reveal themselves as an ignorant person, and the shill will reveal themselves as a shill.

But one bit of advice when dealing with a potential, or even proven shill, is do NOT, EVER, EVER, resort to a slanging match or trading insults because the moment you do, is the moment that they get a pat on the back from their superiors for throwing you off track. Insults are for people that have no real, or genuine comeback.
Never forget this !

Snarl
reply to post by Libertygal

 

So no, I don't need to PM you to get a clue.

And ...

wah-la

... Now your other post makes perfect sense.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I cut my teeth in UseNet. If you don't know what I mean by this declaration PM me.

To which I replied that I was on Usenet with TIN and a Netcom shell account, and used the web before graphical interfaces existed.

Allow me to add, I learned to write HTML to be Lynx friendly, and actually, to this day still write that way for the blind.

Did I miss something? If anything, I need to PM you about THIS post! Lol.

That was your takeaway from my entire post? Hmm.

IIRC, my first shell account was in 1988, possibly late 1987. Once Netcom closed, I went to my current provider, and been there ever since. That was in 1989, I think. Had that email ever since.

My favorite word in Usenet was 'plonk', and I was a frequent in news.asmin.netabuse.misc

How about you? Meow?

Or, TINC?

v.reply to post by DarksideOz

Yep, don't even suggest it, because it is a bannable offense, and up to the mod to decide.

Aside from that, much if what you said rings true. The elections were one of the worst times I have ever seen on ATS. Both of them. I cannot disagree with what you said, but most people will just use the race card, or say it's because you don't line so and so.

My whole point in my post was, you have nothing to prove. You aren't going to change anyones' mind with forum posts about their vote, so it really comes down to a matter of argument.

You may have your suspicions, but what will it accomplish, in the end, even if you prove it?

Nothing... seriously. And, for me, the risks became real when things started happening in real life.

It just wasn't worth it 'to be right'.

reply to post by Never Despise


This is a very good point OP. I have seen this too, where people say another is as shill for disagreeing with him. But, there's a list, and its easy to spot one.

dont-tread-on.me...

In that link there are 25 ways to spot someone that's job is to promote hysteria and dinsinfo among the conspiracy crowd.

The easiest way for them to accomplish their goals, is using a Straw Man. I have seen this countless times on online forums. These "shills" are easy to spot because they hide out in the open (which is one of their tactics) They might even call them selves "shills". Furthermore, I have come to the conclusion with debating with these people that they are usually not that intelligent. A few of them are though.

A few of them have worked their way in communities with their intellect that they were admired by the community and recognized, and eventually trusted among them. This makes their word even that much more "reputable".

But don't get paranoid OP, or anyone else reading this thread. Because there is so much disinfo out there, so many half truths mixed with lies that it's almost impossible to know really anything anymore.

The only thing you have is your own thoughts and judgement. It seems as soon as you go down the rabbit hole you delve into an grand illusion of insanity. The further you go the more you start to lose grasp of reality. At least in my case. I'm surrounded by half truths and double think in places where I think my mind can find comfort.

The old saying "The only thing, is that I know nothing" by Socartes seems more relevant now then ever. Hey, maybe that's a cop out, maybe its not.

Anyway to end this rant, if we are apart of a massive conspiracy dating back to biblical times, and we are in the final moments of its conclusion, what honestly can we do? What can any of us really do? Enjoy the ride a little longer? So you see, most of the "conspiracies" are so out of our reach, that no one can really do anything about it. So all we do is talk about them on online forums while we pretend were in "the know".

That's why I see most conspiracy sites as an illusion and a trick. It's a place where you can pretend you know more then the average citizen yet do nothing about it, instead you are masked taken over by paranoia about things that may or not be true, even then you have no control over them.

I wonder honestly if I never opened my mind to the insanity of conspiracy theory. Maybe life would be better.

Well anyway OP good thread, you make a valid point.

reply to post by DarksideOz


Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour, regardless of how someone else is acting. When everyone accepts responsibility for their own action, blaming someone else for "Starting it" or being angry, being wrong, being a jerk etc. etc. is never acceptable.

If we let someone else's behaviour excuse our own, we all sink to the basest behaviour of the worst person on this site.

The reason there are no "thumbs down" or "negative stars" on ATS is to encourage discourse with positive reinforcement alone.

reply to post by Libertygal


You're correct in saying that I won't achieve anything, and I only ever look for from a personal curiosity point of view. Sort of like a little test of gut instinct, which has rarely let me down.

I was more just pointing out some of the behaviour to look out for, but it will not always mean that it IS a shill, it just means that the usual signs are there. I don't even look to get these people banned, I just remember their profile name and remember to ignore any of their comments.

I understand the Mod's cannot monitor every single comment, but the example I used in my last post is a good reference as it showed the same consistent behaviour from the same person, it was pretty much that same person that led to most of the threads that they commented on in a negative way being shut down, yet time and time again the Mod's shut down the thread, but fail to see the common denominator, or take action against them.

We cannot stop the shills from coming on here, nor will banning them stop them from starting a new account. But if we start to look at the footprints, the footprints become a lot easier to identify. And the more easily a shill is to identify, the less likely their comments will be listened to.

But as I said, just be patient and the shill's will eventually out themselves.

reply to post by Never Despise

Never have I seen the paranoia so high in the conspiracy community.

"paranoia"?....or a demand for truth.
It is not "paranoia" when some one refuses to acknowledge 'known' facts. That is a deliberate act.
Shills have been used for centuries to sway the masses. so, why not now?

I see the "s-word" being tossed around as a way to shut down debate. Don't like what somebody says? They must be a shill. Don't like their avatar? They must be a shill. Disagree with their take on politics or religion? They are shills. Don't like the color of their shirt? Must be a shill. See how that works?

you FAIL to mention, being obstinate, contradictory, attacking the person posting rather than the information being posted...and the good old, Roberts Rule of Order......which is the Dictum of BOTH Law and Debate is those whom assert MUST PROVE!

now, not meaning to go off topic, but a PERFECT example is the event of 9-11. [which I am sure is the reason for this thread]

FIRST come the asserted official claims pushed....now 'truthers' are asking questions and DEMANDING that supporting evidence of those claims pushed as truth...'Truthers' need no evidence of anything to do this.

2005 NIST was charged to scientifically determine how and why three buildings fell on 9-11...they did NOT find a reason why...[as the 10,000+ page NIST report shows].
enter the 2008 NIST hypothesis crew, whom is allowed to ignore their own science, to make up NEW science they do not have to prove.

so, our OFFICIAL STORY consists of fire not only causing collapse, but an OFFICIAL CLAIM it did so in such a way as NO OTHER building has ever done before, stated by Shyam Sunder at NIST technical briefing..
vimeo.com...

Shyam Sunder, all through the Q&A section of the video stating, ....."brand new event"..."new phenomenon"..."there has *NEVER* been a collapse like WTC7".

and the only supporting evidence they have are computer models which they refuse to release the data that tells the models what to do, how to behave...WHY?
one, that will show them the fraud they are, and two*, because they have a Presidential Executive Order stating they don't have to prove what ever they claim.


This is 100% FACT yet people do not want to believe it......maybe even you.....

but, undeniable fact none the less, so what do ya do if you want to hide this???

lie, distract, accuse, distort, what ever you can do to keep the, 'less knowledgeable' on the ropes, thinking it's all just nonsense.....

come on over to visit/post on the 9-11 threads of utube....You will see perfect examples of "shills" on every thread...They have been the same for years posting the same nonsense, doing the same tactics aforementioned.

It's the "circular firing squad" mentality, and nobody wins these kinds of battles

ONLY with the lesser knowledgeable...The "shills" have a very LIMITED vocabulary....they can NOT use SCIENCE or FACTS from the initial NIST 2005 scientific investigation to forward their pushed claims, so, if one knows what they are talking about, they can word their posts to show them the shills they really are.

.....you will not find any shill posting supporting evidence...there is none supporting them and they know it...that is why they focus on the personal attacks rather than the information being posted.

Because the ultimate victory for the bad guys isn't them oppressing us: It's them getting us to let our fear lead us into policing ourselves for them.

you are SO WRONG!

their "ultimate victory" is 'confusion.....uncertainty....making you run away thinking this is all nonsense.

no one asking for the supporting evidence pushed as truth NEEDS evidence to do this.

Leonidas
reply to post by DarksideOz

 

Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour, regardless of how someone else is acting. When everyone accepts responsibility for their own action, blaming someone else for "Starting it" or being angry, being wrong, being a jerk etc. etc. is never acceptable.

If we let someone else's behaviour excuse our own, we all sink to the basest behaviour of the worst person on this site.

The reason there are no "thumbs down" or "negative stars" on ATS is to encourage discourse with positive reinforcement alone.

The very first thing I did was look at my own behaviour, and it has nothing to do with "who started it first".
I was trying to have a civilised discussion with someone that would not listen to reason, would not engage in logical discussion, yet seemed to go over the same points mixed with sarcasm and insults. Due to this person not being willing to at least see it from another point of view, as well as very similar behaviour in other posts according to their profile. I never once called this person a shill, I asked them if they were a shill because they seemed to be showing shill like behaviour. Now, if that is to be confused with "who started it first", then I must be missing something.
I had over 2 years worth of comments wasted. I had my account banned for asking a question, not accusing, but asking. In over 2 years I was never reported or had any issues with any other member. Yet for being foolish enough to sink to a possible shills level [see, that's self reflection], I received no feedback or warning at all from the Mod's as to why, despite even contacting them and having a "clean record" for over 2 years. Some of the comments I have seen go unpunished despite a Mod shutting down the thread straight after the comments completely defy the T&C, yet one asking of a question to a possible shill led to my INSTANT cancellation of account. The question that I believe led to my account being banned was "due to the behaviour you are showing, you seem to be acting like a shill. Are you a shill, or is there another explanation for your behaviour ?". I would love anybody to tell me how that broke the T&C, or how it was an accusation. The T&C are all about wording, my wording avoided any breaches. Yet........banned, no explanation ?
I don't mean to sound repetitive on this, but I just thought I would respond to you to explain the situation a little better. I know it sounds like that I am asking you to take my word over another, but I would never do this. But I have no reason to lie about this, and I, to the best of my knowledge have never acted like a shill or shown shill like behaviour, and I definitely haven't received a paycheque for it. Yet the person who made every attempt to derail the thread has probably still got the same profile, and still displaying the same traits, and possibly still picking up a paycheque for it.

I just don't like it when a good thread gets shut down because ONE person comes on to derail it. Yes, it is advised not to take the bait, but we are all human and we all let our guard down every now and then. Why not just warn that member, and if they continue, just ban them. The thread gets to continue and it defeats the purpose and agenda of the shill in the one go. When the thread gets closed, the shills win. What better way to derail a thread then by having it shut down all together ?

reply to post by Flatfish

Another prime example of this phenomena is our modern day Tea Party who seem to think that can retain any credibility whatsoever while simultaneously embracing every nut job politician in the country.

lmao......do you know where the modern day "Tea Party" came from???

after the 9-11 Omission report came out, many gathered in different States to hold a mock, 'throwing in the river', of that report as protest.....forever known as the 'TeaParty' movement...
moral of the story is: If you can't go in the front door, go in through the back!!!!!


and you claim as a 'shill' would....."nut-job politicians"....do you mean ANYONE whom will stand up to the status quo???

When you open your doors and embrace those who are undeniably bat-sh#t crazy, what you end up with is a scenario like the one played out in "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" where believability and credibility become virtues that you can only dream about.

..I rest my case...ATTACK the person, NOT the idea....NOT the information....we just blanket the entire package to discredit.....the exact definition of a 'shill'.

Thank you for taking the time to work with me on this experiment here!!!!!

reply to post by network dude

And this is enforced?

oh yes....lol!

Its been a while since any threads peaked my interest.

And I've been considering turning my back on ATS...

But this thread CALLED to me!

S n' F OP! You're giving me some hope...

Nothing else to say here, except...

PREACH!

...I have been a member of the quote-unquote "conspiracy theory world" for almost 25 years now, since back in the days when the Internet was still out of reach for most people, and all we had were kooky paperbacks, badly-photocopied 'zines, "alternative bookstores," and edgy coffee shops....

Sounds like heaven. No lie.

Although I love the Internet it's a love-hate relationship. Sometimes I try to imagine what it must have been like to grow up in the pre-Internet days.

DarksideOz

What I class shill-like behaviour is having a clear, one-sided argument that doesn't not change no matter what evidence, facts or even suggestions are made. This is usually a shill outing themselves as a shill. And that is one thing I have found in the past, a shill will always end up revealing themselves if you can remain patient enough and not sink to their level.

The hardest part is trying to work out if the person is just completely ignorant, or if that ignorance is actually an agenda.

Ha!

You should visit the Religion, Faith and Theology and Origins and Creationism forums.....