Recreating MH37's Altitude - In the Simulator

I found this astounding video of a simulation of what theoretically happened in the cockpit of the plane. Check this out.



Here are some facts:

1. The plane is at 44,000 feet for some reason, 2,000 feet above the max approved altitude

2. "If you wanted to kill your passengers, this is the way to do it" - the passengers would start to suffocate

3. For some reason, the video says that the plane then fell at around 700 mph to around 20,000 feet, where it leveled off (somehow?)

4. The passengers would be feeling almost lethal G-Forces.

5. Auto Pilot would not go as high as the plane was. It would have had to be brought to 44,000 feet manually.

Where are they getting their facts to recreate this?

reply to post by WordsAreAvenues


I have no clue, does anyone else know? How do they know about the 44,000 feet and the sudden drop to 20,000 feet in one minute and leveling off? If you watch the video... they obviously got the facts from somewhere.

Although I honestly have no idea where.

Here is a timeline. from CNN. Looking at this video, I am wondering whether or not the plane was being flied remotely.

According to this video, there doesn't seem like there were signs of a hijacking from passengers.

If you really want to, you can push a 777 above 44,000', it's not impossible though the max certified ceiling is 43,100'. Cabin pressurization can handle that altitude without killing the pax. As for going from 44,000' to 20,000' in 1 minute and then leveling off, sorry not going to happen. You have a max limit of .84 mach or 596. You can push the airframe over the limit by around 10% - 20% and it may or may not fail. A 24,000' foot per minute decent would cause massive structural failure leaving pieces all over the ocean as your airspeed would exceed max limit way beyond the 10% - 20% safety limits that are built into the performance data. A 777 is not a military fighter, the airframe is not designed to handle high G loads.

reply to post by darkbake


Lethal G-forces? How do you figure? The speed the plane was flying on decent has nothing to do with g-forces really. The Rate of Climb would. They could have executed a relatively narrow descent at high speed.

reply to post by darkbake


what if they just popped open the door and tossed that transponder or whatever out the window....like tucked into a passenger and then open the door as they flew out....the plane could still fly right?

reply to post by darkbake


I believe the altitude and speed info are from the engine data transmissions to Rolls Royce.

jtma508
Lethal G-forces? How do you figure? The speed the plane was flying on decent has nothing to do with g-forces really.

I believe they are referring the leveling out portion of the decent where the inertial forces would be the highest if the aircraft were actually pulling out of a dive as proposed in the video.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


If the g-forces of any alleged dive were lethal to the passengers it would be lethal to the crew and far beyond the structural limits of the plane.

jtma508
If the g-forces of any alleged dive were lethal to the passengers it would be lethal to the crew and far beyond the structural limits of the plane.

Agreed, however they did say 'near-lethal'. I think the data may be erroneous, the aircraft can fly at that altitude but in my opinion the decent portion seems to be not as likely in a time/speed aspect.

darkbake


1. The plane is at 44,000 feet for some reason, 2,000 feet above the max approved altitude

2. "If you wanted to kill your passengers, this is the way to do it" - the passengers would start to suffocate

They would have to depressurize the cabin after climbing to that elevation, everyone would die in seconds without pressurized O2.

This is an interesting speculative angle I haven't heard yet. If they needed to eliminate the passengers this would do it. No one can fight back, no one can make calls, emails texts etc.

They all pass out instantly and die quickly.

hmmm

Wouldn't everyone be weightless falling at 700 mph?

BTW, were is the radar data anyway? I was wondering the other day how long it took them to drop and to what level.

Why is CNN being treated as a valid source?

reply to post by ausername

They all pass out instantly and die quickly

But wouldn't that include the pilot? There are oxygen masks that drop down. How would the pilots go about protecting themselves and kill the passengers at the same time? I read there's about 20 minutes of oxygen but if the they dropped after getting to 44k feet, where's the time to suffocate everyone? How long were they flying at that height?

FlySolo
reply to post by ausername

 

They all pass out instantly and die quickly

But wouldn't that include the pilot? There are oxygen masks that drop down. How would the pilots go about protecting themselves and kill the passengers at the same time? I read there's about 20 minutes of oxygen but if the they dropped after getting to 44k feet, where's the time to suffocate everyone? How long were they flying at that height?

If their plan was to kill the passengers they would have the pressurized O2 masks on in the cockpit before depressurizing the cabin, they would intentionally climb to that elevation without anyone really noticing, and if they did depressurize the cabin the passengers would pass out quickly and die.

These would have to be some really evil people to plan and execute a plot like this, climbing to that elevation before changing course and switching off transponders to "disappear" makes more sense if that was their plan and intentions.

I hope for the people on that flight that this isn't what happened.

reply to post by ausername


But the oxygen masks that get deployed. Don't they drop down automatically? One would have to move through the entire plane and check on all the passengers and make sure they're actually dead, that's a lot of people. Then, this begs the question, how could one do that? Then the next question, how long were they at 44k feet and why would they need to nose dive at 700 mph so quickly? This would/could revive anyone not dead. It seems like a plausible theory but it leaves more questions than answers. It does't make total sense.

reply to post by FlySolo


From the info made available, if accurate all of the actions seem deliberate. Climbing, changing course, switching off communications systems, etc.

If this theory is accurate I am not sure if the passenger cabin masks would deploy under a manual depressurization of the cabin. If not, or if it could have been somehow disabled the passengers would not have had a chance.

There are so many theories out there, this one seems plausible for more reasons than not. Personally I hope its wrong. That could mean that this plane is somewhere now in the possession of some really evil people.

I usually hate this kind of speculation, but this far into this, and with the information available one is left theorizing on how it can all fit together.

FlySolo
But the oxygen masks that get deployed. Don't they drop down automatically?

In theory they are supposed to deploy in any depressurization above 14,000' but there are reported instances where this has not occurred. The flight deck has a separate system which I believe has a longer supply, the cabin units are not meant for extended use and are only to allow the passengers to remain conscious until the plane can be safely returned to an altitude where atmospheric oxygen is sufficient.

reply to post by ausername

If this theory is accurate I am not sure if the passenger cabin masks would deploy under a manual depressurization of the cabin. If not, or if it could have been somehow disabled the passengers would not have had a chance.

Then there's only one way to find out, going to do some reading...
I find it highly unlikely that a 777 is designed in a way were one could commit mass murder like that. However, having a transponder that can be turned off with 3 clicks of a dial seems highly illogical too. That's just dumb to have there on the console like that.

What a joke! Communist News Network proves once again that they really are a bunch of CLOWNS!!!

Put a couple guys in a simulator and everything looks more credible, right? (rolls eyes)

First of all, 'near lethal G forces' are absolutely irrelevant! The wing of a Boeing 777 could never be loaded far enough to even approach G forces which would cause persons on-board to lose consciousness, let alone be "near lethal"! The wing and flight control surfaces would fail structurally LONG before this limit was approached.

The two indicators they were pointing out were an indicator of predicted 'stall' speed and actual indicated airspeed. As these two measures approach each other an aircraft gets into a situation known as the "Coffin Corner" where the stall speed and the maximum airspeed for the altitude are the same. Beyond this point (even by a couple knots) the wing / airfoil will "stall". A stall would likely cause the aircraft to nose over into a steep dive and likely also "spin" (a perilous situation in a twin-jet).

Secondly, as I've said elsewhere, a 40,000fpm descent rate is not possible for a commercial airliner. Period. Not possible. This data is simply wrong, or whoever is perpetuating it is clueless. A descent rate of 20,000fpm for 60 seconds is even pretty dicey in terms of possibility. The aircraft would have to be in a powered dive for the first 10,000 feet and then spend the next 10,000 feet loading the wing and reducing airspeed to recover. Perhaps one might be able to do this under a tightly controlled test environment, but MH370 was far from that.