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Do we have Free Will (my video)

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posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 03:23 AM
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Choice would be a more apt term, while the inane free will debate, even amongst the most learned men and women, who presumably are arriving at mentioned concrete conclusions using free will - or perhaps, they are not, so the conclusions are in error...a poster has already mentioned the anomaly of accepting the idea of non-free-will, if not on the general populace...on illumined minds that are reaching thier statements in fact based on thier judgement that free will does not exist...biggg problem...as if all psychiatrists, researchers and psychologists concluded everyone was mad - begging the question, do you believe mad men?...because they form a subset of the group that is concluding this...

You have choice...no one choice is ever unrelated to a choice in a similar vein...but hardly anyone ever remembers choices along the way, which makes it look like less and less choice, which is essentially true, because human is not averse to painting themselves into a corner by not exercising memory.

Criminals in jails all around the world have similar life paths...is this just happenstance that they ultimately find themselves with less and less CHOICE?...or, was there a moment somewhere in thier past that would have altered thier life path?...a moment many of them actually remember when mulling over thier life in the exercise yard...denying yourself choice is denying personal responsibility...this is a serious ethical issue that should not be played with lightly...chemically-based conditions and issues of PTSS (et al) aside, rational-based minds could not in all honesty determine that there is no choice, because there would be no basis for that rationality to rest on - except the vagaries of non-free will...see how absurd this sounds?

Å99




posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 08:24 AM
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originally posted by: akushla99


You have choice...no one choice is ever unrelated to a choice in a similar vein...but hardly anyone ever remembers choices along the way, which makes it look like less and less choice, which is essentially true, because human is not averse to painting themselves into a corner by not exercising memory.




Actually, the video is based on evidence that suggest we do not have choice at all. Not one bit. Not one drop of free choice.

I know its hard to fathom if you are not a neuroscientist. But that is what the video is suggesting alongside with much of the neuroscience of today.

MM



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 09:10 AM
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Unanswerable question 'do we have Free Will'. Reference "Newcomb's Paradox'.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 12:15 PM
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We are smart enough to think no, but dumb enough to think yes.

If choices, possibilities are all preordained, but were done by choice, would it in the slightest way be freedom of choice that the determined the outcome, became the determined outcome? If that the case, God speed...

I personally love this scene where it really depicts something that is so powerful, is such a puppet in some form or other. And so it should be in the some whacked quantum physics course.



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: Mr Mask

I understand what you are saying, although, I have no idea how that can be possible...if what you 'suggest' is true...

I'll restate what I said in a question.

Of what value is a 'science of anything' determination that Free Will does not exist?
...or, if you want...
Top researchers have determined that every human on the planet is clinically insane.

You can defer to the researchers as much as you like, not that you have the choice

but, they have a very simple question to answer...

Å99



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: akushla99

There clearly are 3 choices, at least...

Yes, no and maybe.
Memory plays a very important role in the 'illusion' of non-free will. I mentioned severe conditions that are characterised by the subconscious masking of Memory that prompts behaviour in the present, that subjects are convinced they have no choice in...in essence, this is what happens on a massive scale to all humans (albeit, not all germinal events are as traumatic)...but thier subconscious has taken over to make the originating event disappear, and get replaced by a thought structure that is more palatable to survival...the originating event has been made to disappear - the memory of the event is hidden...do you remember every 'choice' that led you to where you find yourself Now?
Then, the only 'choice/s' are the ones you see 'at this juncture'...which are 'limited' (depending on all previous choices) to what is left in any particular scenario/gameplay.

If what newrowscoence says is correct, we are bots that have no choice (essentially what you said) which means, newrowscience HAD NO CHOICE to come to what they suggest...check pat!

Å99



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: Mr Mask

I am not a neuroscientist - but I know what I like...I've mashed this mot because elitism permeates all industry...
Despite the limit on the evidence you are 'forced' to accept, can you provide me with a blow-by-blow precis of how you came to post your thread...actually begin at the moment your finger hovered over the start button of your computer...my stipulation is that you do not use any words or concepts that refer to your will or your choice...I'd be interested to see how it reads...

Å99



posted on Sep, 30 2014 @ 10:17 PM
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originally posted by: akushla99
a reply to: Mr Mask

I am not a neuroscientist - but I know what I like...I've mashed this mot because elitism permeates all industry...
Despite the limit on the evidence you are 'forced' to accept, can you provide me with a blow-by-blow precis of how you came to post your thread...actually begin at the moment your finger hovered over the start button of your computer...my stipulation is that you do not use any words or concepts that refer to your will or your choice...I'd be interested to see how it reads...

Å99


I do not understand your request. I'm sorry?

MM



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 12:26 AM
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a reply to: Mr Mask

Amazing...you can wrap your head around the free will 'debate', produce utube videos, play computer games while talking...but you do not understand my request...

...and no, I didn't provide you with a 'hit'...

Transparency is transparent...

Å99



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 12:35 AM
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a reply to: Mr Mask

A bit late to join lol, but this is my opinion after some observation.

Do we have free will? Nope.
Making a choice... Yes. But this is not free will. Choices are limited and conditioned by the environment around us.
The idea of free will is a trap. An idea that mess with our minds.

When we think we have free will, we will be tempted to change others, because we want others to be like us or maybe we want them to be like somebody, etc, etc. Indoctrination.

imho, the idea of free will is the root of all conflicts around the world.

peace
edit on 1-10-2014 by dodol because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 01:13 AM
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I remembered watching a documentary where scientists experimented whether they can guess
if we actually picked a left or right object (by reading the neurons in our brain I presume).
The participants will make a conscious decision to choose one of the objects and point it out, and the scientists
were able to predict which objects they were able to pick by reading the neurons beforehand.

If you really think about it, this is absolutely astounding, it means that we had already made a subconscious decision
in our minds (The neurons activating and telling the brain what to do which results in the physical action of choosing an object). The subjects weren't aware of this decision, and it was evaluated that there was a lag before they were consciously aware to choose the object.

So do we have free will or do we have an illusion of free will? You decide...

edit on 1-10-2014 by icyboy771z because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-10-2014 by icyboy771z because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 01:16 AM
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originally posted by: dodol
a reply to: Mr Mask

A bit late to join lol, but this is my opinion after some observation.

Do we have free will? Nope.
Making a choice... Yes. But this is not free will. Choices are limited and conditioned by the environment around us.
The idea of free will is a trap. An idea that mess with our minds.

When we think we have free will, we will be tempted to change others, because we want others to be like us or maybe we want them to be like somebody, etc, etc. Indoctrination.

imho, the idea of free will is the root of all conflicts around the world.

peace


I agree with every word you just typed. Thank you! Sigh...finally...music to my eyes.

Hugs bro!

MM



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 01:18 AM
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originally posted by: akushla99
a reply to: Mr Mask

Amazing...you can wrap your head around the free will 'debate', produce utube videos, play computer games while talking...but you do not understand my request...

...and no, I didn't provide you with a 'hit'...

Transparency is transparent...

Å99


No...your post was badly formed. Read it outloud and see how it sounds when someone else reads it.

What exactly are you asking me to do? It was confusing because you built your request haphazardly.

I don't need your "hit". lol.

MM
edit on 1-10-2014 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 01:59 AM
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a reply to: Mr Mask

Ahhh right, the post was badly formed...says who?

"Despite the limit on the evidence you are 'forced' to accept, can you provide me with a blow-by-blow precis of how you came to post your thread...actually begin at the moment your finger hovered over the start button of your computer...my stipulation is that you do not use any words or concepts that refer to your will or your choice...I'd be interested to see how it reads.."
I'm a Writer, the post was perfectly formed.

Could you do it, pretty please...
You've had at least 3hours to think about it (or not think)...

Å99
edit on 1-10-2014 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 02:24 AM
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a reply to: akushla99

What I have seen are 2 excuses, so far, to not do what I asked.

I'll do it for you...

'Quite by chance, I found myself sitting in front of my computer. For an unknown reason, I pressed the Start button. I don't know how it happened, I opened my browser and without my knowledge and prompting, my finger pressed the log-in button for ATS. A strange feeling came over me when, all of a sudden I was posting a thread on ATS...coincidentally, somehow without my knowledge I linked a utube video I cannot remember making. It's all a blur. I have no idea how it happened.'

Sounds convincing...

Å99
edit on 1-10-2014 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 10:53 AM
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originally posted by: akushla99
a reply to: Mr Mask

Ahhh right, the post was badly formed...says who?

"Despite the limit on the evidence you are 'forced' to accept, can you provide me with a blow-by-blow precis of how you came to post your thread...actually begin at the moment your finger hovered over the start button of your computer...my stipulation is that you do not use any words or concepts that refer to your will or your choice...I'd be interested to see how it reads.."
I'm a Writer, the post was perfectly formed.

Could you do it, pretty please...
You've had at least 3hours to think about it (or not think)...

Å99


Ok, let me get this right. You think three hours has been long enough to reply to you, when I spent over 40 hours making this video for you? You want to know the biological process of how this video was created from start to finish without using words that directly point towards free will or choice, while this video explains clearly the process?

I see. Ok.

A Newtonian process gurgled inside my skull and came to conclusions before I was aware of them. They lead me to making a video. Before that, they caused me to research the subject. Before that they caused me to "feel" as if I wanted to know more about the workings of the human mind.

Signals popped, synapses giggled, and ideas where set in stone before I was consciously aware of them.

That's it. That's what neuroscience is telling us more and more everyday.

As a writer, do you ever wonder where these words you come up with come from yourself? I am not a writer, I also am reporting findings from science- not inventing ideas of my own on this matter.

I fully agree with those who say there is no place in the mind for a thought to be created before the thought is created. Since thoughts bubble up to our awareness after they are formed subconsciously, I can not see a place where a magic little man sits inside our minds "thinking things up".

It makes more sense to me and many in the field that our thoughts are the direct result of physical electrical/chemical happenings and not this idea of "consciousness" we intuitively feel.

But thanks for thinking three hours is enough time for a father who works 50+ hours a week, while making videos and trying to have a life is enough time to answer your question that this video spent entire long minutes explaining in the first place.

Heck...the video told you exactly what I just told you here. And well, the video was made to answer that question.

Good day.

MM
edit on 1-10-2014 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-10-2014 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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Everyone has free will and it is dictated by the subconscious. Tell your subconscious what the problem is and what you want. Sit down and write a letter to your subconscious. It will do its best to find a solution and it may take some time depending on your environment and circumstances.

Remember the old saying, "Be careful how you ask for something, you may get something in a way you never intended."

edit on 1-10-2014 by eManym because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 12:03 PM
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originally posted by: eManym
Everyone has free will and it is dictated by the subconscious. Tell your subconscious what the problem is and what you want. Sit down and write a letter to your subconscious. It will do its best to find a solution and it may take some time depending on your environment and circumstances.

Remember the old saying, "Be careful how you ask for something, you may get something in a way you never intended."


Ha! I actually like that answer ahahah.

MM



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: Mr Mask

a reply to: Mr Mask

Thank You.

Reads very much like a 3 year olds explanation of thier scribbles...
In another life I was a Childs Art Therapist. Before a certain stage, thier images have no reference to themselves, and thier 'interaction' with the environment they find themselves in is expressed as 'things coming to them'...along with growing limbs, they become aware that things can be done with thier limbs and the images change dramatically to reflect the understanding that pulling a pot off a stove is what I want to do - explore how I can affect the environment around me...they know what they're doing, they may not understand the consequences - but they know what they're doing...thus begins the emergence of a brain that plans...even little children will somewhat disagree with newroscience...it flies against the concept of needing to develop in any meaningful way...because things just 'arise', does not involve planning, selection, preference...and as alluded to earlier, children under a certain age are exempt from criminal charges on this basis...adults who attempt (or genuinly are unstable) are delivered under lack of sanity clauses.

As a writer words and images are part and parcel of what I see and hear around me. I have the capacity to select, alter, trash whatever I want. I am making a conscious decision to knock pots off stoves, or not...

Please excuse my reference to your family and interests. Victim cards on a personal level are often a characteristic indicative of the concept of 'things are just happening to me'...I never forced you to have a family, produce videos, post a thread on ATS, prompt to 'debate', or reply to any of my posts. Certainly, Son of Sam actually believed that satan, in the guise of a german shepherd (?), compelled him to shoot Lennon - but where is he now?
Despite what newroscience has 'suggested'...it is obvious to blind freddie that these illumined men at many stages of thier lives made selections of career path that led them to the point of designing (planning) experiments that somehow indicate that they did not.
Something is obviously missing.

Good luck friend.

Å99



posted on Oct, 1 2014 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: akushla99

For your information sir...I stopped reading your post when you called my reply a "3 year old's attempt to talk about scribbles".

Look here "you bad writer"- Your accolades me nothing to me. I don't even think they are real and most likely made-up since you are bragging about them here on ATS.

This video is about research done for decades by people who make you look like a moron. Plain and simple.

Good day...

PS- As a published writer myself, let me add that you have no idea how to keep the attention of an audience and a study-limp. Meaning- you need to study this subject before you puke nonsense about it.

It may result in a post of yours I actually am interested in long enough to read. But for now I'll just Ignore you hostile BS and laugh at your under-education on a very simple subject you think you have right to speak on.

Good day.

MM



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