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Russia downs US drone *Breaking*

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posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 08:45 AM
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Was this already posted here?


A Russian state arms and technology group claimed Friday to have downed a U.S. surveillance drone over Ukraine’s Crimea region, Agence France Presse reported. The Pentagon issued a denial to the International Business Times on Saturday, with a spokesman for the Department of Defense saying there was “zero truth” to to claims. [Source]


Pentagon denies.

edit on 3/16/2014 by ~Lucidity because: to fix tags




posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 09:42 AM
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Xcathdra
Since we are no longer in the soviet era, I don't see how it applies except to demonstrate a continued need for NATO and a Russian shift back to rebuilding the USSR, starting with the formerly occupied nations.


It does not mean independent. Autonomy is where a geographical region that is part of a nation state has special abilities to run their affairs in a specific manner - Which is spelled out in the Ukrainian Constitution. Any conflict between Crimean law and Ukrainian law falls to Ukrainian law.

I did not compare. I pointed out the fallacies Putin and some others throw out there.

If people think there is an overwhelming group of people in Ukraine that support Crimean independence, then use the Ukrainian constitution to achieve that goal and allow all Ukrainians to vote.



I may have used a slightly inappropriate word so let me rephrase - to Socialist/Communist. A (soviet) Socialist republic is different than a Muslim one for example. It is sometimes argued that the former Soviet Union was also a supra-national republic, based on the claim that the member states were different nations. And i would rather skip the arguing, because it is true.

A Socialist Republic is not only a form of government governed by a strict set of rules (no monarch, power held by the people etc) but also a territory with the majority of people being the same ethnicity (don't confuse it with nationality, you can change your nationality but you're born into ethnicity)

..which was not so coincidentally one of the Soviet Union criteria to become a republic in the first place.

be named after at least one million people of the ethnic group which should make up the majority population of said republic.


With that being said, i can see why&how an American would compare Crimea to Florida state and have a strong opinion about a similar 'Florida' suddenly wanting to become independent but it's really more like a 'Vatican City' to Italy than a state in the USA. Of course it is neither but you need to have great insight in communist politics to understand the difference.

Last thing about today's referendum is one of those things you've missed completely because in their constitution it is stated only people living on Crimean peninsula can vote and not everybody in Ukraine. That also makes a lot more sense imho. Western democratic thinking is clouding your judgement on this one



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 09:52 AM
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let's hope this doesnt escalate to a ww3. there's no winnable war



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 10:54 AM
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Xcathdra
It does not matter if the report is accurate / true or not. The report is not directed at the West / NATO.


it doesn't matter,

What difference does it make ??

Hey you must be Hilary Clinton giving speech on Benghazi



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 10:58 AM
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Xcathdra
True but Ukraine is a sovereign nation and can ask for assistance from whomever they choose, including NATO. They can also ask for assistance in repelling an invasion that Russia has launched into Ukraine.
Also since some seemed to be lost - Ukraine met all requirements to join NATO back in 2010. The Ukrainian government opted not to join. That could change tomorrow.


You should know one important thing.

US government is not as gung ho as they seem. Not even crazy Israelis are as trigger happy as they seem.

There are these things like Think Tanks, some smart and cunning people inside run all kids of scenarios, and one of the scenarios is admitting by mistake country like Ukraine or Georgia into NATO and then having WW3 with Russia by default.

If US government was really as stupid as they seem. US would have been destroyed/collapsed 40 years ago.



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 11:03 AM
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Xcathdra
Except for the fact that Crimea was never independent from Ukraine.
Secondly its a violation of the Ukrainian Constitution.


I think you should update your post since referendum is happening. Majority choosing their fate, rather than well financed NGO minority choosing the fate of others.



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 11:49 AM
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Greeting everyone.

I am yet new to this web page, and this is my first reply.
I will take some time to say just a couple things about who I am, and what do I do for living.
Please take you time to read this.

As for name and surname it is not important, but I do have plenty of years of experience in many different areas of military service, and that allows me to comment awkward situations like this one.
My education and warfare experience started when I was 17 yo, and that was in Tel Aviv, at NCA. There I started of in a small class of 8 students, it was path of SCA - specific for third world countries.

From there on, until present day, 40 years later, my life was connected to everything that was happening world wide and had to do anything with plots, warfare, scams, genocide... you name it.
I will admit, many times I wanted to revers time and never take this path, but I couldn't, was stuck in that sick reality.

My service list starts from Palestine (as a student) and goes over entire middle east, Asia, Europe, Africa, both North and South America, and will finish here where it started.

I am not a Jewish, I am not Israeli, just a casual random guy who loved the idea of being "Unknown hero", someone to do important things but without cameras, reporters and media.

But will keep it this much long, if any of you do have any questions concerning my experience, thing I saw, and places I'we visited, be free to ask (private message please).

And now the subject:

Drone, if I could hear, read and be informed good, was model IAI RQ Series 5 B. Also, we all know that that was one of the most outrageous frauds in mid 90's when it occurred, as "abort" mission.
That is just karma if you ask me. Truth is it was never aborted as we all know, and it continued developing in that same ISRAEL, and was out back in 2000, though testing started in 1997.

Nevertheless, let me skip to the chase.

My experience and knowledge (and I know both US and Russian military possibilities) says that was just maybe a bit stupid from US side, and maybe too bit bold from Russian side.
Yes, it was easy to land it, but do not be fooled, not that easy as it seems, not only technologically, but as a diplomatic act and an open invitation for war.
On the other hand, Models A/B series 5 are also armed with AT laser guided rockets...

My question is WHY ARMED if your only taking about recon operations?

I am non American or English, so sorry for any mistake made in writing.



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 02:01 PM
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CondorUnit
My question is WHY ARMED if your only taking about recon operations?

I am non American or English, so sorry for any mistake made in writing.


We have yet to see any proof that the drone was -

A - Brought down
B - That is was armed

The media carrying that story have yet to back up the story with any type of photo.



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 02:06 PM
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Exitt
Last thing about today's referendum is one of those things you've missed completely because in their constitution it is stated only people living on Crimean peninsula can vote and not everybody in Ukraine. That also makes a lot more sense imho. Western democratic thinking is clouding your judgement on this one


Crimean Constitution or Ukrainian Constitution (which is the one I base my position off of since it is the only valid one for this topic)?



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 02:09 PM
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ZincMag

Xcathdra
Except for the fact that Crimea was never independent from Ukraine.
Secondly its a violation of the Ukrainian Constitution.


I think you should update your post since referendum is happening. Majority choosing their fate, rather than well financed NGO minority choosing the fate of others.


uhm yeah.. The vote is not lawful and wont be recognized.

They can vote till the cows come home.. Crimea is a part of Ukraine unless the Ukrainian government allows a referendum on Crimeas status. If that referendum were to happen it would be put to a vote by all Ukrainians and not just Russian citizen being bussed into Crimea to vote.



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 02:38 PM
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Xcathdra

Crimean Constitution or Ukrainian Constitution (which is the one I base my position off of since it is the only valid one for this topic)?



Both actually just on different levels. Because they officially got their autonomy status in 1991 by the Ukrainian government they also got the right to organize a referendum for independence whenever they found it necessary. That is included in Crimean constitution but also in Ukrainian law legislation.

One more reason for me to believe Putin is crazy/and/or a war puppet is his totally unnecessary occupation of Crimea. Those guys could have done it all by themselves, whenever they wanted to.




edit on 16-3-2014 by Exitt because: .



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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It seems the unelected 'government" of Ukraine and the US dont want Crimea to have a voice or a democratic vote so they write a law to make it illegal. :-/ Seems some people only talk democracy when it suits them. In american constitution it is illegal for any US state to leave the federation. You joined us and now you are stuck with us forever regardless of your wishes.

No more news about the drone yet...



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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Exitt

Xcathdra

Crimean Constitution or Ukrainian Constitution (which is the one I base my position off of since it is the only valid one for this topic)?



Both actually just on different levels. Because they officially got their autonomy status in 1991 by the Ukrainian government they also got the right to organize a referendum for independence whenever they found it necessary. That is included in Crimean constitution but also in Ukrainian law legislation.

One more reason for me to believe Putin is crazy/and/or a war puppet is his totally unnecessary occupation of Crimea. Those guys could have done it all by themselves, whenever they wanted to.




edit on 16-3-2014 by Exitt because: .


The Crimean Constitution is subordinate to the Ukrainian one. Crimea does not have the ability to just declare independence and hold votes. Crimea also cannot partake in an action that changes the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Any vote that deals with borders must be Ukraine wide.

As I stated before, Autonomy is not the same as independent. The Ukrainian constitution deals directly with Crimea and how they operate.

As for the vote in Crimea, I want to know how many people voted. Its one thing to claim 93% voted to join Russia. Its something else entirely when that 93% comes from only 1000 voters.

Russia is continuing its troop buildup on Ukraine's border and pro Russians are attacking government buildings there. It seems the only violence taking place is coming from Pro Russians.



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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Reinmax
It seems the unelected 'government" of Ukraine and the US dont want Crimea to have a voice or a democratic vote so they write a law to make it illegal. :-/ Seems some people only talk democracy when it suits them. In american constitution it is illegal for any US state to leave the federation. You joined us and now you are stuck with us forever regardless of your wishes.

No more news about the drone yet...


They didn't write a law.

maybe you should read the Ukrainian Constitution

I guess we will wait to see what occurs on Monday from the west. If Russia goes into E. Ukraine I don't think the west will remain out of it.
edit on 16-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 03:59 PM
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Xcathdra

CondorUnit
My question is WHY ARMED if your only taking about recon operations?

I am non American or English, so sorry for any mistake made in writing.


We have yet to see any proof that the drone was -

A - Brought down
B - That is was armed

The media carrying that story have yet to back up the story with any type of photo.



A - Brought down it was, I know since I am still active as part of unit operating with Russian forces in Dagestan. But that's just me.

B - Again, not that you need or have to trust me, but from my sources, and they are proven to me that they are true, drone was armed... Though that topic is skipped because Russians want to save it as "ace" if needed.



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by CondorUnit
 


Armed with what?



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation
 


The bottom line is that there was NO drone brought down. The story was a complete fabrication. Ask yourself why certain people would want to invent such a story?

Even the Russian company whose equipment was claimed to be involved has issued an official denial. They even link directly to the original article whose author fabricated the story. They have issued the denial in both English and Russian.


Official denial of the State Corporation

Rostec does not confirm the information about the facts of use of the "Autobase" technical utility on the Crimea Peninsula
Rostec State Corporation does not confirm the information concerning the facts of use of the "Autobase" technical utility on the Crimea Peninsula, which was published in a number of mass media.

The State Corporation bears responsibility for the quality of its products but is by no means responsible for the relocation and the results of the use of the equipment supplied by the Corporation's organizations within the framework of contractors' orders.

The abovementioned piece of information was originally published on the "Military Observer" Internet portal.

Thereby the complete responsibility for the correctness, authenticity and reliability of the published information lies upon the editors of the "Military Observer".


Link to Rostec Official Denial

Can we now send this to the Hoax Bin where it belongs?



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 04:14 PM
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~Lucidity
reply to post by CondorUnit
 


Armed with what?



Special anti tank bombs/rockets, laser guided + GPS help made by Northrop Grumman. They are from Viper Strike series if I am not mistaking.

And for rest, yes, everybody will deny...
But, I won't argue, you know what you know, I know what I know



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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CondorUnit

Xcathdra

CondorUnit
My question is WHY ARMED if your only taking about recon operations?

I am non American or English, so sorry for any mistake made in writing.


We have yet to see any proof that the drone was -

A - Brought down
B - That is was armed

The media carrying that story have yet to back up the story with any type of photo.



A - Brought down it was, I know since I am still active as part of unit operating with Russian forces in Dagestan. But that's just me.

B - Again, not that you need or have to trust me, but from my sources, and they are proven to me that they are true, drone was armed... Though that topic is skipped because Russians want to save it as "ace" if needed.


With all the lies coming from Moscow lately I want something more than just the Russian governments / Russian medias "word".

Secondly, whether or not its armed, it was flying in Ukrainian airspace with the consent of the Ukrainian government. So I am not sure what "ace" putin has with it. If anything it demonstrates that there are in fact Russian military on the ground in Crimea, even though Putin keeps insisting they are not Russian.

But hey, if he wants to try and argue his actions - bringing down a drone inside sovereign Ukrainian airpsce, more power to him.

If you don't mind me asking, why wont Russia allow Chechnya to declare their independence?
edit on 16-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2014 @ 04:28 PM
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Xcathdra

The Crimean Constitution is subordinate to the Ukrainian one. Crimea does not have the ability to just declare independence and hold votes. Crimea also cannot partake in an action that changes the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Any vote that deals with borders must be Ukraine wide.

As I stated before, Autonomy is not the same as independent. The Ukrainian constitution deals directly with Crimea and how they operate.

As for the vote in Crimea, I want to know how many people voted. Its one thing to claim 93% voted to join Russia. Its something else entirely when that 93% comes from only 1000 voters.

Russia is continuing its troop buildup on Ukraine's border and pro Russians are attacking government buildings there. It seems the only violence taking place is coming from Pro Russians.


You are missing the point. Because they officially became autonomous Republic they were also officially granted constitutional rights - one of them being they could vote to become independent. It happened in 1991 so Ukraine cannot all of a sudden change their mind 20 years later and evoke Crimea's constitutional rights. Just like it cannot happen in America.

Of course autonomy does not equal independence but with Crimean autonomy came a RIGHT to become independent. By a democratic referendum. And it really doesn't matter that you think it's not fair all of Ukraine population doesn't have a vote about it - it is simply how it is and how politicians agreed upon in 1991.

I also cannot be completely sure how the voting went down, I'm reading 93% of the voters (80plus percent out of 1,8 million voters in Crimea) said yes to Russia but i know that in my country the number was even higher, 97% of all voters (88%) said yes to independence. I don't find it so hard to believe.


edit on 16-3-2014 by Exitt because: .




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